Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Will the Leader of the House place in the House of Commons Library the results of the public cons...

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman is unaware of two things: first, that a consultation took ...

As a proud former lobbyist, both in-house and in consultancy—indeed, I learned my trade in the sa...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It must have been a fine training ground indeed that she shares ...

rose—

All right, all right. I have given way before and will do so again. The hon. Member for Hampstead...

I am grateful to the Leader of the House, and I am quite delighted to have the opportunity to bur...

I look forward to the hon. Lady having an opportunity after today’s debate to go back to her cons...

Is not my right hon. Friend missing the elephant in the room, which is the fact that only two org...

As ever, my hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is accurate because at the last election, rel...

rose—

If Members will forgive me, I am at risk of dealing with part 2 before I have dealt with part 1. ...

I thank the right hon. Gentleman. Many people would want him to reassure third parties and charit...

I had conversations yesterday with the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, which helpfu...

rose—

I want to make some progress before giving way again.

As I say, we need to give confidence ...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

I will give way in a few moments.

Part 1 relates to the creation of a statutory register of...

On that very point, let me assure the Leader of the House that many Opposition Members, particula...

I think we agree about the intention, although I would add that Parliament is at the heart of our...

rose—

I should give way first to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan)....

I think every Member would agree with the Leader of the House that we want lobbying to be transpa...

Let me give my right hon. Friend this assurance. I believe that absolutely nothing in this legisl...

rose—

I shall carry on for a bit, but I will give way again after that. I intend to be generous and ope...

rose—

Let me apologise to the hon. Gentleman before I give way to him. I think the Committee was irrita...

I thank the Leader of the House for apologising on the Floor of the House for the way in which th...

I am not sure what point the hon. Gentleman is trying to make, but Members—especially those who h...

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I will give way in a moment, but let me first pursue the point about those who are trying to regu...

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I know that the hon. Gentleman presented a private Member’s Bill. The point is, however, that we ...

The Leader of the House must be well aware that the Bill will catch grass-roots campaigners in th...

Let me repeat, and add to, what I have already said about charities. Charities know, and have tol...

Schedule 1 makes an exception for Members of Parliament who lobby on behalf of people living in t...

No. We believe that the position is the same as that relating to Members of Parliament, and that ...

I share a concern that has been expressed by others, including my hon. Friend the Member for Wyco...

My hon. Friend is right: schedule 1 refers specifically to the principles of exclusive cognisance...

May I remind the Leader of the House that the reason the Government decided a few months ago to b...

Since I am here presenting the Bill to the House and I was the Secretary of State who initiated t...

rose—

Let us return to the question of the statutory register of lobbyists. To ensure the independence ...

rose—

Sit down. I am not giving way at the moment.

To ensure the independence of the system, the ...

May I return briefly to the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald H...

We could not simply rely on the parliamentary privilege provisions because they would not extend ...

Order. May I just politely suggest to the House that, in terms of the orderly conduct of debate, ...

Right as ever, Mr Speaker.

To respond to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member fo...

rose—

I will give way first to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) and then, of cou...

The very fact that the Leader of the House is having to say he will come back to the House to add...

Of course the Bill does not constrain the ability of charities to campaign. Let us look back at 2...

rose—

I promised to give way to—

Please will the Leader of the House give way?

Oh, the hon. Gentleman said “please”! Okay, but I will give way to the Chairman of the Standards ...

The Standards Committee met this morning and has agreed a report on the implications of this Bill...

My colleagues will, of course, take what the Standards Committee has said very much into account,...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Member for Rhondda, but colleagues behind me on the Government Benche...

I am deeply grateful to the Leader of the House for giving way. He says this is all about transpa...

It promotes transparency because if a representative of Sky visits a Minister in order to discuss...

Following on from my right hon. Friend’s exchange with the Green party member, the hon. Member fo...

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. The public might well think that many of the organisation...

rose—

I am not giving way now. This is an important debate to which I know that colleagues want to cont...

My right hon. Friend said that the previous Government had put this issue in the “too difficult t...

I am not sure that I agree with the premise of what my hon. Friend says, which was that this is t...

The Leader of the House said that consultant lobbyists will have to register whereas in-house lob...

I am not sure that it is that difficult. Either one is lobbying on behalf of one’s own organisati...

rose—

Let me deal with the second part of the Bill—time will frustrate us otherwise, but I will give wa...

Will the Leader of the House give way?

I said that I would give way a little later on. As I was saying, the Bill strengthens the existin...

The Leader of the House will know that in Scotland we very much welcome the contribution of civic...

We are very clear that this has an impact on the structure of election law in the way described i...

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) has mentioned HS2. What hap...

They will be entirely free to campaign on the issues that concern them. The issue is not whether ...

rose—

I will give way again later.

The Bill does change the activities in respect of which spendi...

I have genuine concerns about the change to the definition of “charitable use”, and particularly ...

I can certainly assure my hon. Friend that I and my colleagues—the Deputy Leader of the House and...

The charitable sector is concerned about the issue, first, because the expenditure limits are tig...

As I have explained to the hon. Gentleman in his Committee and as I have said to the House, chari...

rose—

I am now 46 minutes into my speech and I am not going to give way again, because I am going to ex...

Will the Leader of the House give way?

Is it specifically on part 3?

Right on it.

Very good. I will give way.

It seems perfectly sensible to ask the unions to keep a register of their members, but will my ri...

I am confident that the burden on trade unions will be very modest. As far as the certification o...

rose—

I really must complete the speech; I am sorry.

Case law is now clear that minor or technica...

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “That” to the end of the Question and add:

“t...

Following the Government’s historic humiliation last Thursday, would it be beneficial to the Hous...

As always, my hon. Friend has good advice for the Conservative party.

I notice that the Leader of the House kept avoiding certain people who wanted to intervene. More ...

My hon. Friend is right. The Bill can best be summed up as furious displacement activity by a Gov...

Many of us are firmly against the Bill, and civil society seems united in that view. Does my hon....

I certainly agree wholeheartedly that the Bill is being rushed in a very unseemly manner through ...

Surely, the point of the Bill is to say that we have together in Parliament tried to reduce the c...

The hon. Lady is right that we should control the cost of politics, but third parties spent only ...

rose—

I will give way in due course when I have finished answering the point made by the hon. Member fo...

The National Housing Federation, the Chartered Institute of Housing, Shelter and Crisis have all ...

The Government will have to do a lot more work to persuade the official Opposition and most of ci...

The hon. Lady has used the phrase “excessive haste” twice in her speech so far, and with respect ...

Yes. We will vote against the timetable, and I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will join us in...

Does the hon. Lady accept that the figure of 10% in relation to the expenditure committed by thir...

Yes, the hon. Lady is exactly right. I will come on to talk in detail about the worries about par...

The hon. Lady will know that the public have great concerns about parliamentary patronage and how...

I agree. The House of Lords must get its house in order and the Bill touches on none of the lobby...

The Leader of the House would not give way when he was speaking about part 2. There are some key ...

My hon. Friend is right. Lawyers who have looked at the changes that the Government are proposing...

Although I have some nugatory sympathy for the concerns that have been raised around the House, d...

As a member of the Government who put the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 o...

My hon. Friend is making a strong case. She might not be aware that I was very involved in 2005, ...

That is a real fear, which is supported by the briefing from the Electoral Commission to accompan...

rose—

I am happy to give way, but I want to get on with my remarks. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolso...

On part 2, my hon. Friend has got on to the question of spending money prior to an election. Is t...

As always, my hon. Friend puts his finger on an extremely relevant point.

The Leader of the...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will give way in due course to the hon. Gentleman, but I am in full flow making a particular po...

rose—

Let me get on. I will give way to the hon. Lady in a moment.

The Standards and Privileges C...

The hon. Lady is making a powerful criticism of the pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. Will sh...

I do not know which Bill the hon. Lady refers to. The principle of pre-legislative scrutiny has b...

We can all swap stories about who did or did not do pre-legislative scrutiny, but let us have a p...

My hon. Friend takes every opportunity, with great eloquence, to further his views on how we shou...

Is not the importance of pre-legislative scrutiny that all too often it means we can iron out som...

My hon. Friend is of course right. Parts 2 and 3 of the Bill came as a complete surprise to all t...

My hon. Friend is giving an eloquent answer to the question of unintended consequences. Does she ...

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point.

Could not some of the ambiguity and concern about part 2 of the Bill have been avoided by having ...

The hon. Gentleman is exactly right and reinforces the point, which we have heard from both sides...

My hon. Friend has made the fantastic point that a lack of pre-legislative scrutiny leads to unin...

My hon. Friend makes an extremely powerful point. I do not think that it is right, without proper...

On the question of unintended consequences, has my hon. Friend had a chance to consider the compl...

They should be afraid, Madam Deputy Speaker—very afraid.

I now want to look at each part of...

Is not the truth that far too many organisations are wasting their members’ money on hiring profe...

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but the Government had better get right all the issues of privil...

This morning I met representatives of Anti-Slavery International and we planned a campaign togeth...

It is plain wrong, and that is part of our criticism of the Bill.

The hon. Lady makes a very compelling case. A moment ago she spoke about transparency. Does she a...

The hon. Lady makes another good point. We have to see what the size and value is as well as the ...

That is a lobbying group.

Conservative Members might not like the causes that 38 Degrees takes up, but surely we live in a ...

I am sure that the hon. Lady would agree that it is perfectly reasonable to describe 38 Degrees a...

The hon. Lady needs to look at her own Government’s Bill to see that it defines 38 Degrees not as...

In my time at Oxfam I had to take numerous pieces of advice on staying within the law in terms of...

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Part of the effect of this Bill, if unamended, will be to ...

I do not have a huge amount of time for 38 Degrees, but I am not going to address my concerns abo...

It is beholden on the Government to demonstrate that it will not, given that they have widened th...

Does my hon. Friend accept that in addition to the restrictions she has described, the effect of ...

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point about the chilling and dampening effect on the ...

Has my hon. Friend had any indication that the Government have considered the impact on third-par...

Again, I am afraid there is very little evidence I can give my hon. Friend that the Government ha...

Did my hon. Friend notice that when the Leader of the House spoke about trade unionism he absolut...

I agree wholeheartedly.

Officials from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills h...

Did we not hear from the Leader of the House that his motivation for introducing these measures i...

I am rather sorry that I gave way to my hon. Friend, because he has just ruined one of my lines f...

I am Chair of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which has not had the opportunity to discuss t...

Once more, my hon. Friend makes a powerful point. That is the third Committee that the Government...

rose—

Order. I remind Members that there is a 10-minute time limit on all Back-Bench contributions, sta...

I rise to broadly support the Bill and to urge my colleagues to resist the amendment tabled by th...

A large amount of time has been provided to consider the Bill on the Floor of the House, but does...

My hon. Friend is correct. That is exactly the point that I was making. Those are two different p...

The hon. Gentleman’s concern over the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny will have been heard on bo...

I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I will not do that because it would not introduc...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am terribly sorry, but we are time limited and two interventions is our lot. I am afraid that t...

Will my hon. Friend give way?

If it is quick.

On that point, when a registered lobbyist has a large number of clients, does my hon. Friend beli...

I am not entirely certain of the answer to that question, but I hope that will be the case. Perha...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am terribly sorry, but that clock is a tough master.

Much of today’s contention has been ...

That is not the case.

I believe that that is what the Bill sets out to do. That is an appropriate and good measure to t...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will not, I am afraid.

Such examples would not have been dealt with before. That is an im...

I have the great privilege of being Chair of the Select Committee on Political and Constitutional...

May I make a suggestion for one of the amendments to be considered by the hon. Gentleman’s Commit...

That is certainly one of the issues on which we have taken evidence, including this morning, and ...

The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful speech. Does he agree that the real—the biggest—lobbying ...

Yes indeed, and it is not addressed. Neither is it easy to address. By combining their wit and ca...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I must press on—I am sorry that I cannot give way to the right hon. Gentleman.

Who are we t...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am sorry—I have only one minute left, so I must press on.

I made a point briefly—I will n...

I rise to support the Bill on Second Reading. As many colleagues have said, some measures need mo...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will give way only briefly because many colleagues wish to speak in the debate.

What does the hon. Lady make of the statistic that the Department for Business, Innovation and Sk...

The hon. Lady makes a valuable point. The House is where we raise such concerns. I am sure that t...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will not give way to the hon. Lady. I have read only about a paragraph of my speech. Many Oppos...

Like many other hon. Members, I have had more communications on this issue than on virtually anyt...

Does my hon. Friend not find it ironic that at a time when politics is at an all-time low in publ...

I fully agree with my hon. Friend’s remarks. I will come on to that point in the later part of my...

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker, for being late for this debate; I have been in a Committee mee...

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments; he is absolutely right. Everything in this Bill is about...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. He has spoken about his constituents. Is it the case in...

Yes; in fact, of the nearly 300 e-mails I have received, very few are from trade union members, m...

Just on a historical point, the TUC was set up in 1868. More importantly, however, the leaders of...

I accept that point from my hon. Friend.

In conclusion—very quickly—the legal advice sugges...

Before the debate started, I was quite optimistic about the Bill, because I thought it was a posi...

Would the hon. Gentleman not concede that the reductions in the ceiling for registering for polit...

The hon. Lady makes an interesting point. I do not think those reductions will have any impact wh...

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says about the discussion of this Bill and the extent to which it ...

I did take the opportunity to read the long title, as I do with every Bill on which I vote. Somet...

The hon. Gentleman seems to be setting great store by the creation of the new register of lobbyis...

I am delighted that we are the most transparent Government ever. I cannot imagine any of our Mini...

I thank my hon. Friend for complimenting me on my comments on lobbyists, who have enormous influe...

My hon. Friend makes another wonderful point. As I have said, that was the first example I had he...

They are going to be in for a shock.

Well, they might well be in for a shock, but they would not consider themselves to be part of a p...

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to make a short contribution to this afternoon’s importa...

The list of organisations that have expressed concerns about the Bill includes the regulator, the...

My hon. Friend has made an extremely pertinent point. I find it astonishing that the Electoral Co...

Perhaps if there had been pre-legislative scrutiny we should be able to answer a very basic quest...

That too is an important point which could have been explored further during pre-legislative scru...

rose—

Order. Some 23 Members still wish to speak, and it is therefore necessary to reduce the time limi...

I shall focus primarily on the lobbying aspect of this Bill, having provided media advice to a pu...

The hon. Lady is making a strong point about part 1. Does she share my concern that the vast majo...

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, one well understood by those who have had some experience ...

Is there any academic evidence of the effect of third-party campaigning in changing the result of...

I cannot imagine that anybody would waste their money if they did not think that there was a desi...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No. I have given way twice and other Members are keen to speak.

Let us be clear: the Bill w...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Members for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray) and for St ...

For many years, this House has not done enough to tackle lobbying. The hon. Member for Dunfermlin...

I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, and I believe that he believes what he says. I actually be...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (John Robertson). We agree on t...

To equate a trade union, which is fighting for workers’ rights, minimum wage and rights in the wo...

I was not linking the two. I was talking about third-party funding and the unions, but I will com...

Can the hon. Gentleman explain why we are constantly told that there has not been time, when we a...

I gently say to the hon. Lady, 13 years and nothing done, three years and we are doing something,...

The hon. Gentleman might like to take a couple of noughts off his calculations, bearing in mind t...

The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct; I was getting carried away—[Interruption.] The hon. Membe...

I will be asking my hon. Friend to write me a cheque later, given his propensity to add zeros to ...

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. Under no circumstances should politicians on eith...

It is high time that the House examined the issue of lobbying. Our motives should be guided by tw...

Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that part 2 applies not just to Westminster elections, b...

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. There has been little consultation in Wales, as ...

It gives me great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Ed...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will give way in a moment when I have finished my point.

This issue is important to my co...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

Actually, there are only a few minutes left and I want to make some progress.

In the remain...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I have just a few seconds left. I hope that as the Bill goes through the House, the clarity that ...

To be frank, I find this whole debate deeply worrying and depressing. We must remind ourselves th...

I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech and am grateful to him for giving way. He expresses the ang...

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. The Leader of the House would win the respect of the House if...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who is alwa...

One of the most reliable and enthusiastic lobbyists in the country has had 53 meetings with Minis...

We are so fortunate to have a Prince of Wales who is able to train properly for the job he will h...

I am slightly worried that the hon. Gentleman’s respect for the Lord Privy Seal is based on a fun...

Oh dear, the hon. Gentleman gets so over-excited on these occasions that he intervenes far too ea...

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, but he just mentioned civil servants. In...

I do not think it is. It is important to deal with the senior figures who will be important in de...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He is so enthusiastic about this Bill. May I invite hi...

The hon. Lady has been taken in by the scare story and this absurd idea of firestorms. That is no...

It is always a joy to follow the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), although ...

I think that the momentum of my hon. Friend’s comments is absolutely spot on, but does he agree w...

We have already discussed the importance of lobbying groups in providing the sort of information ...

Let me intervene to disappoint the hon. Gentleman a little by pointing out that the bit of text h...

It may well already be in law, but there are now additional penalties attached and additional req...

rose—

Order. I am reducing the speaking limit to six minutes to enable everyone to speak.

4.55 pm...

I shall endeavour not to speak for the full six minutes, so that others can contribute. It is a p...

Like many other Members, I have received hundreds of e-mails about this issue. One of them came f...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. Moreover, it seems that it will not apply...

The Bill appears to be a reaction to undercover newspaper reporting alleging rule-breaking at Wes...

That is a disappointment, but I have to say that it is not surprising that Liberal Democrat Membe...

Members will know that I chair the Standards Committee, and this morning we agreed a report on th...

We are greatly concerned about this particular issue. As the House will know, there are five cons...

I am grateful for that intervention, and I entirely agree; my Committee thinks that we are in a d...

When I first looked at the Bill, I initially thought that it was badly drafted. As has been menti...

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. The Bill attacks the most important parts of civil soci...

I am tending towards that view. As has been said, the Bill should be a matter of careful thought....

Order.

5.16 pm

I want to read out something that the Leader of the House said about introducing legislation on l...

As I understand it, 38 Degrees was invited to be briefed by the Government on the Bill but did no...

I do not see the relevance of 38 Degrees not turning up to a briefing, which would almost certain...

Does my hon. Friend think that there might well be a Machiavellian motive in the Government draft...

That is exactly right and it is why the debate today has been a missed opportunity. We would all ...

Will my hon. Friend give way?

I need to finish quickly so that other Members can come in.

The Bill is badly drafted becau...

It is a great shame that the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) is no longer i...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill would tilt even further an already unlevel playing field?...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If there is already a rake in the political system when it co...

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). I felt that I was ...

Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will reference the fact that there are to be two volumes of...

As you might say, Mr Speaker, it is now on the record.

I would not want the House to believ...

Will the hon. Gentleman read out a specific part of the Bill that would outlaw the things he is s...

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I have only one minute and 57 seconds left, so I am sure h...

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Mr Harris). Like him, I w...

I am glad we have the opportunity to debate the influence of third parties and non-elected actors...

Does the hon. Lady agree that we also need clarity about coalitions of charities—they may be expe...

That is an important point and I will return to a concrete example from my experience and highlig...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford). I echo her commen...

May I ask one question about my right hon. Friend’s position, and the position of any Member stan...

The other thing that is even more disturbing is that if my hon. Friend happens to say that he sup...

I wonder whether the right hon. Lady can tell me this. That is the law at the moment and the law ...

I have already pointed out that clause 26 broadens the definition, but if it is the law at the mo...

I feel that we are almost repeating the debate we had in January, when I introduced my private Me...

For clarification, may I point out that I was referring to a private lunch with the Secretary of ...

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, because I intended to come to the point she made. It is an import...

If one takes a free-market view, the conclusion is not that we should have more regulation of man...

I believe in a level playing field. It should not matter whether someone works in-house or elsewh...

Very few people disagree about the need for greater transparency in the lobbying industry or the ...

This truly is a rotten Bill with sinister and underhand objectives.

Let me begin by placing...

I am very interested by what my hon. Friend is saying. Does he agree that the laudable achievemen...

I entirely agree. That is exactly what happened, and, as I have said, it involved all parties. Th...

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will answer this question. In 2005, when he conducted his campaign wit...

The real issue is that many charities will observe the lack of clarity in the Bill, and, unable t...

It is astonishing that the hon. Gentleman should paint the ridiculous picture that this Bill will...

All I would say to the hon. Gentleman is this: why, therefore, have the NCVO and the 50 charities...

rose—

I will not give way again as I do not have enough time and other Members want to speak.

I a...

rose—

Order. The Front-Bench wind-ups will begin at 6.40 pm, so we have 16 minutes remaining before the...

This has been a sleaze-ridden Government, as we all know. There have been at least eight well-rep...

I have some questions for the Minister to answer, if he will. Under the Bill, will paid transport...

I did not expect when I was elected in May this year that one of my earlier contributions to the ...

In the very short time left to me, I want to say two things. First, it is significant that the nu...

Thanks to the wonders of the internet, we already know what The Daily Telegraph thinks about toda...

We have had a lengthy and impassioned debate, and I am grateful to all Members for their contribu...

If the Deputy Leader of the House is right that there is nothing for charities to fear from the B...

Clearly, the Electoral Commission has expressed concerns and when the Bill goes through its Commi...

As I understand it, on 18 July the Leader of the House gave a timetable for this Bill and there w...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.

Some of us are very pleased that the Government are introducing a Bill to deal with transparency ...

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. Clearly, the Government have stated on a numb...

Will the Deputy Leader of the House give way?

I am very happy to give way to the Chair of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee.