Finance (No. 2) Bill

It is a pleasure, Ms Primarolo, to serve under your chairmanship this morning. I shall speak to t...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and fellow north-east MP for giving way. Does she share my view t...

I very much share the deep concern expressed by my hon. Friend about the figures published yester...

Perhaps the hon. Lady will remind us of the maximum amount of pension relief an individual could ...

I said that the Budget needed to be about priorities and that we need to look now at how to help ...

indicated dissent.

The hon. Gentleman is chuntering from a sedentary position. Does he wish to intervene?

If you are going to quote from independent reports, you should not quote—

Order. I am not quoting anything.

The hon. Lady should not quote from reports selectively. Perhaps she should go on to say that the...

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman is quoting selectively in leaving out the fact that the greates...

I want to support what my hon. Friend has said. The Chancellor’s own distributional analysis show...

It is the hon. Gentleman’s own Chancellor who is quoting selectively from the figures. I thank my...

My hon. Friend is making an excellent case about all the various cuts and how they are hitting th...

Order. May I remind hon. Members that they are not asking the Chair of this Committee to answer q...

Even some mild empathy from the Chancellor for those bearing the brunt of his catastrophically fa...

The hon. Lady is asking for an analysis of what the change in tax rate would do to the Government...

I do not follow the hon. Gentleman’s logic that that justifies a non-assessment at this stage. He...

The hon. Lady says that there was a huge intake from the 50p rate of income tax. What is her evid...

HMRC’s report, “The Exchequer effect of the 50 per cent additional rate of income tax”, but I wil...

The hon. Lady is making a good case, particularly on the uncertainty about the reduced revenue yi...

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely strong point, and one that I have made repeatedly. This mig...

I agree with many of the hon. Lady’s points. Plaid Cymru will fight the next Westminster election...

We have made it perfectly clear from day one that we do not support the cut to the 50p rate now, ...

He’s never been Treasury spokesman.

Okay. I am pleased that that has been clarified for the record. Other hon. Members will feel the ...

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Ms Primarolo—[Interruption]. We h...

During this week, from Second Reading onwards, we have seen a dearth of speakers from the Governm...

As ever, my hon. Friend makes such a reasonable and forceful contribution to the debate. This is ...

I might be pre-empting what my hon. Friend is about to say, but with these measures are we not se...

Absolutely, and I thank my hon. Friend. I was not about to turn to that issue, but I will develop...

That point about our high streets is incredibly important. It is not simply high streets in Labou...

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The problem is not restricted to high streets. In small ...

I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech immensely. On that point, just last Thursday, the food bank...

I am sure that Members on both sides of the House are seeing that in their constituencies. I hope...

The hon. Lady will be aware that the tax cut for people earning more than £3,000 a week was intro...

No, I am not. I would say that the catastrophic political mistakes are most often made on the nat...

It is a particular pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Primarolo. I welcome you b...

The hon. Gentleman said that the Government’s policy was wise. He is a moral man, so will he tell...

Because it does not actually work like that. We know from experience that high rates of tax reduc...

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to the debate, as we have been lacking a challenge up to now and it ...

Order. I remind the Committee that the guidance on conventions and courtesies is quite clear on t...

Ms Primarolo, your answer to the debate would be so fine that it would hold the rest of us silent...

I did not think that I had spurred the hon. Gentleman to speak; given his posture during my speec...

The coalition is, I am sure, united at the highest level, but that does not mean that Back Benche...

It seems to me that the argument is not that we should reduce tax so that people will be kind eno...

However much we tackle tax avoidance, if we set tax rates at so high a level that people decide n...

The point is constantly made that the top 1% pay a very high proportion of income tax and that th...

The hon. Lady almost makes my argument for me. In 1979, that hallowed year in which the great lad...

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs says that in the one year when the 50% tax rate applied, revenu...

In fact, HMRC came out with figures showing the tax paid by the highest taxpayers declined; there...

It is my understanding that, although tax takes went down in the first year when people could pre...

The problem with that argument is that we have facts that show that the amount of revenue has gon...

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is a student of behavioural psychology, as he is of so many oth...

The hon. Lady—my near neighbour, as she represents a Bristol constituency—is very wise and does, ...

The problem for many people at present is that the jobs simply are not out there. In my speech on...

I am always doubtful when people are sniffy about jobs that people take. I and others in the Cons...

The hon. Gentleman is completely out of touch on this point. The point is not that people are bei...

I wish I was in this fortunate position of having a chauffeur or driver to take me to Fife to get...

There is some research that counters part of the hon. Gentleman’s argument. In the 1980s in Germa...

As always, the hon. Gentleman makes a very interesting point, but if we aggregate across society ...

Is it morally right that time and again constituents come to my surgery with the figures in front...

I obviously do not know about the individual cases that come to the hon. Gentleman’s surgery, but...

And rising.

It is rising, as the hon. Gentleman says. There is a huge amount of money in the benefits system....

Order. I ask hon. Members to desist from commentary during the contributions of other hon. Member...

Unless such money is put in a mattress, it has an effect, because it goes into the banks. As hon....

My study of economics, which I also used to teach, always showed that the rich have a lower margi...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, because it demonstrates an unduly simp...

Will the hon. Gentleman explain why, when I speak to banks—I had a conversation with Barclays ban...

One of the major flaws that led to the banking crisis was that loan-to-deposit ratios across the ...

The hon. Gentleman seems to be making a powerful case for the reintroduction of exchange controls...

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman on that at all, because this country attracts a huge amoun...

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hood.

I will address the amendment di...

I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s contribution, albeit that it is tinged with quite a lot of despair...

My hon. Friend makes a telling point and I would not want to diminish the importance of what I am...

The Committee may already know, and people will be interested to hear that, in the past two years...

That is exactly right. I was going to make that point another way and say that company directors ...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his enormous generosity in giving way. I have a schedule from...

I absolutely agree. People are getting down to the pennies, not the pounds, yet this month multim...

My hon. Friend mentions patriotism, which reminds me of yesterday’s great spectacle of Baroness T...

My hon. Friend’s point is well made —he expresses it well.

I shall conclude by highlighting...

rose—

Order. Before I call the next speaker, I should say that I am mindful to call the Minister at 1.1...

I rise to support the proposals in the names of my hon. Friends.

On the one hand, Governmen...

In communities such as mine and that of my hon. Friend, the poor spend money—they have no saving ...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. That is the iniquity of the cut from 50% to 45%. Effectively, ...

My hon. Friend will know that the Government’s alleged strategy is that the private sector will m...

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. We should get more stimulus into the economy and get more...

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hood.

I came to this House just over ...

I visited the food bank in my own constituency only last Monday, and the key issue put to me was ...

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We are not talking only about people on out-of-work bene...

Every week during Prime Minister’s Question Time the Leader of the Opposition asks why, at a time...

Let me make two points. First, I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has read the HMRC report ...

That is not my understanding. According to the Minister’s own analysis of economic activity, whic...

Let me say something about clauses 1 and 16. Clause 1 deals with the income tax charge for 2013-1...

As the Minister may know, in Denmark the standard rate of income tax is about 30% and the higher ...

The fact remains that the 50p rate was higher than the rates imposed by many of our competitors. ...

indicated assent.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for confirming that. However, I am not entirely clear about the princi...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Lady, who may provide me with an answer.

Is the Minister seriously blaming the 50p tax rate for stagnating growth? If so, can he explain w...

We know what the big issues are with growth. We are having to deal with the aftermath of the fina...

I am grateful to the Minister for his generosity in giving way. Does he agree with the trickle-do...

The hon. Gentleman refers to dementors, and I am afraid that he is living in the world of fairy t...

Can the Minister provide reassurance that he has taken on board the concerns raised by a number o...

Of course, we have consulted on this policy and have listened very carefully to the representatio...

I thank the Minister for his response and the completely fictional rewriting of HMRC’s report on ...

I call Catherine Jamieson to move the motion.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Thank you, Mr Hood, for using my full...

Can the hon. Lady tell me her definition of the “strong growth” that her new clause says would tr...

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Given that I have not really got under way...

The hon. Lady is quite right that growth has been very disappointing and that the forecasts have ...

As I have indicated to the right hon. Gentleman, whose views I listen to and who always raises pe...

I am broadly sympathetic to the proposal, which could stimulate the economy significantly, but VA...

Order. I say to the hon. Gentleman, in case he is going to make any further interventions, that h...

I am interested to hear that the hon. Gentleman has some sympathy with our proposal—I suspect tha...

I am following the hon. Lady’s speech with interest and read the new clause with greater interest...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. We argue that the new clause would be part of a ...

I understand that times are tough, partly because we have to try to bring the economy together af...

I intended to say £1,700; if I said £17,000, I apologise. Obviously, Mr Hood, I need to put my sp...

indicated assent.

rose—

I want to make a bit more progress. I come back to the point raised by the hon. Member for Tivert...

rose—

rose—

I give way first to the hon. Gentleman and then to my hon. Friend.

The hon. Lady is being most generous in giving way. Surely it is churlish of her not to concede t...

I hope I am not being churlish in hoping that the hon. Gentleman will understand that most of tho...

rose—

I will take my hon. Friend’s intervention before I forget about him.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to call for an assessment of the cost of living. Does she acce...

My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. So that I cannot be accused of being churlish, let me say ...

My hon. Friend has noted a number of ways in which people are suffering up and down the country. ...

My hon. Friend is a powerful advocate for the people in his constituency who are bearing the brun...

The proposed new clause is designed to stimulate strong growth, which I suspect everyone in this ...

I always listen with interest to what the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) has to say...

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair criticism of my remarks, but to stay in order I did not mention t...

As a member of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, I understand the difficulties. I realise ...

I admire the hon. Gentleman’s consistency, but does he accept that this was a matter of debate du...

That argument is completely wrong. It might be Conservative central office’s take on it. The prev...

I want to help the hon. Gentleman on this point. There is flexibility when it comes to reducing t...

I am grateful for that clarification. I recall that Labour Front Benchers said at the time that t...

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen). I am not sure that ...

Would the hon. Gentleman like to comment on the numerous observations and reports suggesting that...

The hon. Lady anticipates my next point. By any respectable indicators over the past few years, t...

I hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but he referred to a figure of £100 billion, which is t...

A 10% reduction.

Yes, a 10% reduction. The hon. Gentleman is talking about losing that, but unemployment is going ...

The hon. Gentleman might say that, but it is incumbent on Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition to speci...

It is unfair to say that VAT is a very regressive tax. If it were applied across everything, it w...

Exactly. We could argue at length about the progressiveness of various taxes—no doubt others woul...

Some Members have chosen to talk about billions of pounds. I will speak about the odd pound and t...

As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the rise came in the emergency Budget in 2010. There was a vote o...

That is a very difficult question to answer but easy enough to ask. I regret that that happened.<...

What my hon. Friend says highlights one of the advantages of the proposal to cut VAT. Even with t...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I visited some of the employers in my area in the Easter reces...

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger.

I will deal with new cl...

The Minister and his Front-Bench colleagues are always talking about the freeze in fuel duty, whi...

Of course, that has been far outweighed by the steps that we have taken to reduce fuel duty. The ...

I cannot believe he said that.

That term is used in a new clause tabled by the Labour party.

rose—

I would give way to the hon. Gentleman, but he was not here for the early part of the debate. He ...

It is an interesting experience to see Ministers ask a whole range of questions without addressin...

The Opposition propose a new clause that depends on the definition of “strong growth” but do not ...

I am sure the Minister has heard what I have said. We believe that the new clause is one measure ...

I beg to move amendment 10, page 2, line 11, at end add—

‘(3) The Chancellor shall produce ...

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 3 stand part.

It is a pleasure to be back at the Dispatch Box. Had amendment 4 been selected for debate, we cou...

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate and to speak about one of the most important and ben...

Of course, that is only part of the story, because the threshold before one pays 40% has gone dow...

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. I had thought that his party was in favour of progressive taxa...

I was hoping that my hon. Friend would make that point. He has already acknowledged the Liberal D...

I will certainly urge my party to adopt a similar position. Raising the threshold to £11,500 or £...

The hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) has perpetuated some of the myths about some of the las...

Clause 3 sets the basic rate limit for income tax for the 2013-14 tax year. Let me make it clear ...

Would the Minister not rather be understanding of people’s very real anger than just ignore it? [...

As the Financial Secretary to the Treasury points out, people should be angry about the state of ...

I am disappointed to hear the Minister resort once again to the same tired, old mantra.

We ...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 4—Air passenger duty: ...

I shall speak to new clause 3 and against clause 183 stand part.

Air passenger duty is fast...

How many journeys would be affected by the new clause?

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that question better than I do. It will aff...

May I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the wording of new clause 3? Does it not in fact cov...

The hon. Gentleman will understand that this covers all aspects of journeys feeding into Scotland...

As the chairman of the all-party parliamentary aviation group, may I remind the hon. Gentleman th...

I do not dispute that it has a great effect on everyone in the United Kingdom, but Scotland is cu...

My hon. Friend referred to numbers, and I am sure that he, like me, will have noted that the hon....

My hon. Friend is right—[Interruption.] Yes, there is, of course, a Scottish Labour Member on the...

rose—

If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I will make some progress before giving way to him.

rose—

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be patient. He is usually a patient man, and I am sure he can d...

Is it not true that APD was devolved to Northern Ireland because of the flights that would have l...

The hon. Gentleman is making my case. Airports are joined by air, not by land or sea. I am sure P...

The hon. Gentleman forgets one point: Northern Ireland is attached by land to the Irish Republic ...

That is a very strange argument for a Member who, like me, represents islands to advance. It also...

On the question of islands, the hon. Gentleman knows the following information as well as I do, b...

The hon. Gentleman is right about that to an extent. For some flights, however, APD is paid on on...

My hon. Friend is correct that the Calman commission recommended the devolution of APD, but so do...

I am sure that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire will be on his feet presently to confirm his ...

That has nothing to do with this debate. The hon. Gentleman should know that his proposal, which ...

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has investigated the level of APD on flights from London airpor...

If air passenger duty is devolved to Scotland that will impact on the airports at Newcastle and D...

The hon. Gentleman should look to opportunities rather than scaring and fear-mongering. I imagine...

What about a Miliband?

Mr Miliband will not be there long—do not worry about him.

Surely the SNP and Plaid Cymru w...

When I arrived in the Chamber and listened to the speech of the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an ...

Given what the hon. Gentleman says, I assume he will support SNP Members in the Lobby when we try...

I will come to that in a wee minute. The hon. Gentleman will have to bide his time and be patient...

It is with pleasure that I introduce my new clause 4 and new schedule 1; I hope to press the new ...

Does my hon. Friend find it strange, as I do, that no one representing the Labour party in Wales ...

I am extremely grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention, as we had a debate in the Welsh Grand ...

I have a certain understanding of the word “immediately”, and I am sure that my hon. Friend does,...

That is the exact point. This was said to be the appropriate legislative vehicle for devolving ai...

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way again; he is being very generous. Does he agree that the te...

That is exactly the point. We have experienced twin processes in Wales. We have had the Silk comm...

Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the Silk commission said that his package should be view...

I think that the question for the hon. Gentleman is this: if he favours the devolution of fiscal ...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. Is it not strange that no Welsh Labour Members are pres...

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point, to which I shall return. Fifty million pounds of W...

Is the hon. Gentleman actually informing the House that Labour at Westminster does not want to gi...

I believe that that is indeed the case.

Admittedly the revenue gathered from the minor taxe...

I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is clarifying the matter. The power has been devolved but it...

The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point. That is especially the case in Wales, as the Welsh Gov...

No chance, not with you there.

Well, I am grateful for that comment.

Plaid Cymru has made jobs and the economy its absolut...

It is important to set out first of all what the debate is not about. It is not about whether air...

Is the hon. Gentleman for or against the devolution of APD to Scotland?

I am waiting for somebody to advance the case for that. The Scotland Act 2012 contains provisions...

The hon. Gentleman is a politician, a Member of Parliament elected to Westminster. Is he unable t...

It is the hon. Gentleman who tabled the new clause and spoke to it today. It is incumbent upon hi...

Could the hon. Gentleman please tell the Committee what is the policy of the Scottish Liberal Dem...

What we are debating today is a proposal from the SNP and Plaid Cymru to devolve certain aspects ...

Will the hon. Gentleman conduct a little thought experiment? Imagine that the Irish Republic had ...

As the hon. Gentleman perfectly well knows, the SNP policy is clearly for independence, not for d...

One of the quotes I gave earlier mentioned the fear of the loss to Scotland of 2.1 million passen...

Well, that is something the Scottish Government could put forward to the UK Government as an argu...

I will ask the hon. Gentleman my question a second time: what is the policy of the Scottish Liber...

I gave way to the hon. Gentleman on the assumption that he would answer my question, rather than ...

It is always entertaining to hear the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), who move...

Will the hon. Lady give the Committee a sneak preview and explain to Members on both sides of the...

I will not be joining the SNP in the Lobby, and I will explain why shortly. I will first take thi...

We should set aside the selfish approach shown today by the SNP, because APD is an issue not just...

My hon. Friend makes an important and interesting point. In that debate in November, a number of ...

Obviously, my hon. Friend will know that there were special circumstances for Northern Ireland; t...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I know how much of an interest she has taken in the...

How closely has the hon. Lady monitored the views of Welsh Members on this issue? The right hon. ...

The right hon. Gentleman asks how closely I have been monitoring the situation. I have not only b...

On a point of order, Mr Evans. Since when has an amendment agreed by the Clerks of this House bee...

Order. Everything that is being debated today is in order; otherwise it would not have been selec...

Thank you, Mr Evans.

I have no concern about whether what is on the Order Paper is in order...

We do not have a clue what the Liberal position on APD is, and the hon. Member for Argyll and But...

Our view is that we will not support the new clause because we do not believe it is the correct w...

Let me put it on record that I will not support the new clause because, as I said, the hon. Membe...

I thank the hon. Gentleman. He has put his position firmly on the record in exactly the way I wou...

I thank all hon. Members who have taken part in this energetic debate, which has aroused strong p...

On the effect of APD on regional airports such as Durham Tees Valley airport in my constituency a...

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Government have looked at that in the past and have ruled it...

Is the hon. Gentleman saying that there is a competitive disadvantage from APD only where there i...

The hon. Gentleman knows the answer, but I shall provide it anyway. As he knows and as we heard f...

Will the Minister tell the House what happened to passenger numbers from Cardiff airport over the...

I do not have the numbers to hand for Cardiff airport, but I am sure that the hon. Gentleman know...

I can tell the Minister straight away that we will not be withdrawing our new clauses; we will be...

The hon. Gentleman was asked a simple question by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donoho...

The hon. Gentleman has not said whether he is voting with us in the Lobby or voting for an increa...