UK Parliament / Open data

Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills on Monday, 19 November 2012, in the House of Commons, led by Jo Swinson. The answering member was Ian Murray.
Agreed to on question. Programme motion agreed to. Queen's recommendation signified. Money resolution agreed to. Ways and means resolution agreed to.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
553 cc325-412 
Session
2012-13
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Jo Swinson | 553 c326 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I am delighted to bring the Groceri...

Barry Sheerman | 553 c326 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give way?


Show all contributions (165)
Jo Swinson | 553 c326 (Link to this contribution)

I will, as I am aware that I am now addressing one of the main topics of debate.

Barry Sheerman | 553 c326 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will be aware that many constituents have written to their Members of Parliament abo...

Jo Swinson | 553 c326 (Link to this contribution)

I do not agree with that characterisation. I think the adjudicator will be able to make a real di...

Robert Smith | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

I greatly welcome this Bill and I hope it makes good progress through the House. The Minister emp...

Jo Swinson | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are introducing the adjudicator because of the benefits it...

Chris Bryant | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

Sometimes these commercial operators try to crowd out competitors using pretty dodgy means. When ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

If information is not provided to the groceries code adjudicator, that will constitute an offence...

Chris Bryant | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

But one problem is that big corporations quite deliberately hide things from adjudicators. Unless...

Jo Swinson | 553 c327 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making a distinct bid to be on the Bill Committee, and the usual channels w...

Jo Swinson | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

I should like to make a little progress, but I will then give way to hon. Members. My hon. Friend...

Jo Swinson | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives, who has worked on this issue for many ...

Andrew George | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

I very much welcome the measure, and I am content that it has the investigatory powers to address...

Jo Swinson | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

The adjudicator will be in place and, as has been outlined, the code is already legally binding. ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), and then...

Tim Farron | 553 c328 (Link to this contribution)

Those of us who are concerned about fair trade for farmers greatly welcome the Bill. It attempts ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c329 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a couple of important points and I know that he is an assiduous campaigner o...

George Freeman | 553 c329 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly welcome the measure and commend my hon. Friend and those on the Government Front Bench...

Jo Swinson | 553 c329 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and for his support for the Bill. The code is already...

Jo Swinson | 553 c329 (Link to this contribution)

I will certainly give way to the Chair of the Business, Skills and Innovation Committee.

Adrian Bailey | 553 cc329-330 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady; I recognise that she has given way several times already. I delayed my int...

Jo Swinson | 553 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I will happily confirm the reference in that clause:

“When carrying out an investigation th...

Mark Spencer | 553 c330 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give way on that point?

Jo Swinson | 553 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I am still responding to the earlier question, but if the hon. Gentleman will have a little patie...

Jo Swinson | 553 c330 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a little progress, and then I will give way.

The direct or indirect suppliers w...

Mark Spencer | 553 c330 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister refers to blacklisting, when suppliers will be disadvantaged by coming forward. Can ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c331 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 18 provides that there is a duty on the adjudicator to protect confidentiality. That goes ...

Peter Luff | 553 c331 (Link to this contribution)

This welcome legislation, like that which introduced the Gangmasters Licensing Authority some yea...

Jo Swinson | 553 c331 (Link to this contribution)

Consultation is taking place on that measure. My hon. Friend the Minister of State who is summing...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 553 c331 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister knows that the adjudicator cannot do any of those things until after they have publi...

Jo Swinson | 553 c331 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman expresses an understandable desire to make sure that the role of adjudicator c...

Mark Williams | 553 c332 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend mentioned recommendations on possible changes that the adjudicator could make to t...

Jo Swinson | 553 c332 (Link to this contribution)

It is not envisaged that such changes would necessarily be wide-ranging, because the role of adju...

Stephen Timms | 553 c332 (Link to this contribution)

I declare an interest as chair of the trustees of the Traidcraft Foundation, which represents pro...

Jo Swinson | 553 cc332-3 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s point, which organisations such as Traidcraft have put fo...

Andrew George | 553 c333 (Link to this contribution)

Although I appreciate that the adjudicator will have the power to recover their investigatory cos...

Jo Swinson | 553 c333 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. If the Secretary of State decides that an order needs to...

Kerry McCarthy | 553 c333 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case that the Competition Commission inquiry back in 2008 found that more than a de...

Jo Swinson | 553 c333 (Link to this contribution)

It is important to bear in mind that this will be an independent adjudicator who will conduct an ...

Michael Connarty | 553 c334 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not realise that the code makes absolutely no reference to the need to address ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c334 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises serious issues, not least that of legality and human trafficking. If th...

Peter Luff | 553 c334 (Link to this contribution)

I reassure the hon. Lady that the Gangmasters Licensing Authority is doing a first-rate job at ad...

Jo Swinson | 553 cc334-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. He makes his point forcefully.

I believe that ...

Roger Williams | 553 c335 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the Bill’s focus on the role of the adjudicator in enforcing the groceries code. If the...

Jo Swinson | 553 c335 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. Morally, it is incumbent on anyone who comes across evidence of appalling crimes, suc...

Jo Swinson | 553 c335 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will make a little progress, because he has already inte...

Jo Swinson | 553 c335 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Lady, although I am aware that other Members wish to speak.

Nia Griffith | 553 c335 (Link to this contribution)

Under what circumstances would the Secretary of State consider bringing in the power to raise fin...

Jo Swinson | 553 cc335-6 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the hon. Lady will understand that I am not going to give an exhaustive list. If the ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c336 (Link to this contribution)

It was a man in a dog suit, rather than an actual dog. The event was organised by Traidcraft, Act...

Jo Swinson | 553 c336 (Link to this contribution)

I am coming to a conclusion, so I hope the hon. Gentleman will understand it if I do not give way...

Ian Murray | 553 cc336-7 (Link to this contribution)

I did not realise that we could bring toys to the Dispatch Box. If I had known, I might have brou...

Andrew George | 553 c337 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, I also used those words when Labour was in power because, as the hon. Gentleman knows,...

Ian Murray | 553 c337 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted with that intervention because we introduced the code, on which the adjudicator wi...

Andrew George | 553 c337 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want the debate to degenerate into a party political spat, but to put the record straigh...

Ian Murray | 553 cc337-9 (Link to this contribution)

The code is there for everyone to see, and was introduced before the general election. The next p...

Michael Connarty | 553 c339 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend will have heard in my earlier intervention, having read through the code it see...

Ian Murray | 553 cc339-340 (Link to this contribution)

I know that my hon. Friend has worked on the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, and we will take th...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 553 c340 (Link to this contribution)

Given those statistics, does the hon. Gentleman believe that food producers will feel emboldened ...

Ian Murray | 553 c340 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We need proper sanctions—we need to take the carrot-and-s...

Glyn Davies | 553 c340 (Link to this contribution)

The only contention between the Government and Opposition is whether fines should be available at...

Ian Murray | 553 c340 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman brings a great deal of experience of the sector to the House. I am not convinc...

Daniel Kawczynski | 553 c340 (Link to this contribution)

Certainly, when I have spoken with supermarket chief executives I have challenged them. They some...

Ian Murray | 553 c341 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman makes a critical point, but the point is the full plethora of sanc...

David Heath | 553 c341 (Link to this contribution)

Just so we know the terms of debate, will the hon. Gentleman outline how a big a fine he thinks w...

Ian Murray | 553 c341 (Link to this contribution)

That should be in the hands of the adjudicator. We are asking the adjudicator to do a job to asse...

Mark Spencer | 553 c341 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that those charged with the responsibility for spreading the messag...

Ian Murray | 553 cc341-4 (Link to this contribution)

That is a wonderful point, and I think we now have our second candidate for the Committee—or give...

Daniel Kawczynski | 553 c344 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman, who appears to be moving towards the end of his speech, mentioned carrots. Th...

Ian Murray | 553 c344 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises a critical point, because naming and shaming did not work for the dairy...

Glyn Davies | 553 c344 (Link to this contribution)

It concerns me that the hon. Gentleman has just said that the improvement in the dairy farmers’ r...

Ian Murray | 553 cc344-5 (Link to this contribution)

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. The point I am making—I think his hon. Friend the Member for S...

Stephen Timms | 553 c345 (Link to this contribution)

Traidcraft and others have raised a point relating to the confidentiality of those who report the...

Ian Murray | 553 cc345-6 (Link to this contribution)

We will have to explore that matter in detail in Committee, because there is confusion in the ind...

Nigel Evans | 553 c346 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We will start with a time limit of 15 minutes on Back-Bench speeches, with the usual injur...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 553 cc346-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray). I should like ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 553 c347 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a vital point. If a potato processor or person producing potatoes in Northern...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 553 cc347-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman reaffirms my point very eloquently. He would probably share my view—and I hope...

Jo Swinson | 553 c348 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 4 makes it clear that the adjudicator can conduct an investigation

“if the Adjudicat...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 553 cc348-9 (Link to this contribution)

That is most welcome, although obviously, under the new powers that Select Committees have, we sh...

Susan Elan Jones | 553 cc349-350 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), who, as ever, spe...

George Eustice | 553 cc350-1 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome this Bill’s Second Reading. As Conservatives, we believe in free and fair markets, but ...

Andrew Bingham | 553 c351 (Link to this contribution)

The problem, as my hon. Friend sets out, is very serious—it is almost commercial bullying. Does h...

George Eustice | 553 c351 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree. One of the big improvements made to the Bill in the Lords was the extension o...

Mark Tami | 553 c351 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that it also happens the other way? I have come across cases in wh...

George Eustice | 553 cc351-3 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree, and that is why the Bill is so important. Over the past 20 years, there has b...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 553 cc353-6 (Link to this contribution)

The production of food is our most important industry. Let us pause and think about that for one ...

Simon Hart | 553 cc356-8 (Link to this contribution)

This is an eagerly awaited moment, and it is a very welcome one for Members from all parties. I s...

Adrian Bailey | 553 cc358-9 (Link to this contribution)

I first declare an interest. I am a Labour and Co-operative Member of Parliament for West Bromwic...

Fiona O'Donnell | 553 c359 (Link to this contribution)

In many constituencies, such as mine, which is predominantly rural, people only have a choice bet...

Adrian Bailey | 553 c359 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which I was going to come on to. An individual’s shoppin...

Mark Spencer | 553 c359 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the opposite might be true, in that a supermarket whose br...

Adrian Bailey | 553 c359 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. I am sure that one could develop an argument along...

John McDonnell | 553 c359 (Link to this contribution)

The best example of that is that when the Competition Commission found that a supermarket was red...

Adrian Bailey | 553 cc359-360 (Link to this contribution)

That is a form of advertising that could, in certain situations, benefit a retailer.

It is ...

Andrew George | 553 cc360-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the Chair of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, the hon. M...

Mark Spencer | 553 c362 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, there cannot be a more passionately felt issue than animal welfare. Does the hon. ...

Andrew George | 553 c363 (Link to this contribution)

There is evidence and evidence to counter it on all sides, and that takes us to a point that the ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c363 (Link to this contribution)

Let me clarify to the House that the adjudicator will look at breaches of the code from when it c...

Andrew George | 553 cc363-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification, although I am also disappointed. A lot of p...

Albert Owen | 553 cc364-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a genuine pleasure to follow the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) on this issue. As ...

Roger Williams | 553 c365 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has a proud record. He condemns the Government for being slow to introduce the...

Albert Owen | 553 cc365-7 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is a supporter of pre-legislative scrutiny, but he does not believe it delays ...

Jo Swinson | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

One key point the supermarkets have put to me was that there were no appeal powers for them in th...

Albert Owen | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister tells the House that we need to build in a proper appeals procedure, but hon. Member...

Jo Swinson | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

The retailers argued for a proper appeals process. The challenge I outlined was that the adjudica...

Albert Owen | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

If, further down the line, serious breaches are identified by the adjudicator and the reserve pow...

Albert Owen | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

If. I am hopeful that if that situation arises the Government will bring forward their reserve po...

John McDonnell | 553 c367 (Link to this contribution)

If there is an adjudication that affects the trade of an individual company, it will resort to la...

Albert Owen | 553 c368 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. The House could come together, as it has on this measure, to find a way of short-circ...

John Stevenson | 553 cc368-370 (Link to this contribution)

Much comment has been made about the farming perspective. I appreciate and understand fully that ...

Kerry McCarthy | 553 cc370-2 (Link to this contribution)

As has been said, it has taken a long time for the Bill to come before the House. It has recently...

Julian Sturdy | 553 cc371-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. As a Member representing a series of v...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 553 cc373-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will be supporting this long awaited Bill, and I am in favour of the primary motivation behind ...

Mark Williams | 553 cc376-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie). Like her, I represent a ...

Nia Griffith | 553 cc379-380 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted that, at long last, we have reached the Second Reading of the Groceries Code Adjud...

David Hamilton | 553 c380 (Link to this contribution)

If the adjudicator were given the power at the outset, would not companies be more likely to self...

Nia Griffith | 553 cc380-1 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) pointed out, the stronger the adjudicator is fr...

Mark Spencer | 553 c381 (Link to this contribution)

Let me first draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. As a far...

Fiona O'Donnell | 553 c381 (Link to this contribution)

Rather than referring to “criticisms”, perhaps, in this new atmosphere, we could refer to suggest...

Mark Spencer | 553 cc381-2 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be talking about possible improvements. I think that there is a fair amount of cross-part...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 553 c382 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that those margins are seen not only in the direct relationship bet...

Mark Spencer | 553 cc382-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is a valuable point. There have been a number of references to the dairy industry, and to sm...

Eilidh Whiteford | 553 cc383-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am very pleased to be able to contribute to this debate, and I commend the Government on introd...

Roger Williams | 553 cc387-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), who speaks ...

Fiona O'Donnell | 553 cc388-391 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate and, in particular, to follow the hon...

Sheila Gilmore | 553 c391 (Link to this contribution)

Given the clear balance in the speeches that have been made today across the House, would not it ...

Fiona O'Donnell | 553 c392 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, as ever, makes an excellent contribution. The Government have a track record in t...

Neil Parish | 553 c392 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate and to follow the hon. Member for East Lothian (Fi...

Guy Opperman | 553 c392 (Link to this contribution)

I endorse what my hon. Friend is saying and I know that the growers and producers in Northumberla...

Neil Parish | 553 c393 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to see fines incorporated into the Bill—I am sure that the Government will listen wh...

Guy Opperman | 553 c393 (Link to this contribution)

I know that my hon. Friend is a champion of the dairy industry. The Minister who will respond to ...

Neil Parish | 553 cc393-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Much work was done by the previous farming and food Mini...

Mark Spencer | 553 c395 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend acknowledge that farmers need to bear some of the responsibility? Many dairy ...

Neil Parish | 553 c395 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention. I often say that farmers’ great strength is their indepe...

William Bain | 553 cc395-8 (Link to this contribution)

I seem to be falling into the rather pleasant habit, in both this Chamber and Westminster Hall, o...

John McDonnell | 553 cc398-9 (Link to this contribution)

I chair the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union parliamentary group. The group supports the Bil...

Ian Murray | 553 c399 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an incredibly powerful speech. As he is talking about giving this House ...

John McDonnell | 553 cc400-1 (Link to this contribution)

This point coincides with a private Member’s Bill in my name on the appointment of the Governor o...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 553 cc401-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonne...

David Heath | 553 cc404-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasant and, for me, unprecedented experience to speak at the Dispatch Box on a Bill tha...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 553 c408 (Link to this contribution)

Now that peace and unanimity is breaking out, will my hon. Friend return to the vexed issue of fi...

David Heath | 553 cc408-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will inevitably return to that point a little later, as it was raised by so many Members. Let m...

Andrew George | 553 c409 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend says that the code would not apply retrospectively, relative to the date of the st...

David Heath | 553 cc409-410 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that my hon. Friend makes. If he would care to engage with Government lawy...

John McDonnell | 553 c410 (Link to this contribution)

The point I was trying to make is that if we have to amend the legislation in due course by statu...

David Heath | 553 c410 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, and that is clearly something we can discuss.

The ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 553 c410 (Link to this contribution)

I would not want the hon. Gentleman to miss the opportunity to respond to the 20 Members who spok...

David Heath | 553 c410 (Link to this contribution)

I was about to move on to that, and it is a great shame that the hon. Gentleman took up some of t...

David Heath | 553 cc410-1 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not give way.

I want to talk very briefly about the voluntary code in the milk s...

David Heath | 553 c411 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I really cannot give way at 9.58 pm.

Let us discuss what the effective sanc...

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