Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 9 June 2011, in the House of Lords.

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill. Lords committee stage fifth day. Clauses 74 to 119 agreed to. Schedules 10 to 16 agreed to.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

728 c372-401, c415-84

Session

2010-12

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses
New schedules

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 62-EN also published.
Friday, 1 April 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee eleventh report with formal minutes and evidence.
Tuesday, 3 May 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons

Constitution Select Committee (HL) fourteenth report on Part 1 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill.
Wednesday, 4 May 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Select Committee (HL). Thirteenth report on: Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill 2010-12; Wreck Removal Convention Bill 2010-12. (Lords Minutes).
Wednesday, 4 May 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Doocey | 728 c375 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully endorse everything my noble friend Lord Harris has just said. I just add that I fi...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c374-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise first to speak in support of the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Rosser. To...

Show all contributions (147)

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord from the Cross Benches interestingly reminds us of the two limbs of the ite...

Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington | 728 c376 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment in respect of one issue in particular, which is the issue in terms...

Lord Beecham | 728 c378 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. It is possible, under the Localism Bill as it stands, for...

Baroness Browning | 728 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, following the decision on the first day in Committee, this Bill now removes the current ar...

Baroness Browning | 728 c378 (Link to this contribution) That is a good question. As I indicated to the Committee, we would expect the police to investigate ...

Lord Rosser | 728 c373 (Link to this contribution) 220ZZA: After Clause 78, insert the following new Clause— ““Standards Board guidance (1) Section 57 ...

Lord Rosser | 728 c373-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitated before speaking because I intend to be very brief and I was of the view that I...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 728 c468-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope what I am about to say is not an abuse of the clause stand part procedure. The regu...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c468 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I confess to being rather disappointed because, if an...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c466-7 (Link to this contribution) This is an interesting debate which seems to be narrowing down to how one defines what the objective...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c467-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Licensing Act 2003, as currently drafted, allows local residents, businesses or bodies...

Lord Shipley | 728 c465-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have two comments to make on Amendment 237B and the related Amendments 238 and 239, in t...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 728 c466 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am happy that I gave way to my noble friend Lord Shipley because what I shall say follow...

Lord Shipley | 728 c465 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c464 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Amendment 237B and will also speak as to whether Clause 106 should stand part and Amen...

Viscount Astor | 728 c464-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, because...

Baroness Browning | 728 c474 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Government consulted, and I cannot give the noble Lord an immediate answer on that spe...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c472-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to those who have given notice to oppose the question that Clause 110...

Baroness Browning | 728 c473-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as we have heard, currently licensing authorities are expected to grant applications or va...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c474 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for that explanation. Can she help in relation to...

Viscount Astor | 728 c469 (Link to this contribution) 240: Clause 110, page 70, line 23, leave out subsection (2)

Viscount Astor | 728 c469-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important amendment. The industry is concerned that the changes in the Bill cou...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c470-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support Amendment 240 moved by the noble Viscount, Lord Astor. I wish to speak to Amendm...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 728 c471-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my understanding of the background to the change in wording brought in by the Government i...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c469 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for raising a matter which is very close to my heart...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c475-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a device to elicit from the Government their motives for introducing a barrage of ...

Viscount Astor | 728 c474-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an interesting brief debate. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Clement-J...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c477 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I in parallel—if that is a word—follow the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and not for th...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c476-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think my noble friend is moving that the clause stands part of the Bill. I have A...

Viscount Astor | 728 c479 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask my noble friend a question or put in a plea. As she will know better than me, next...

Baroness Browning | 728 c477-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, what a spurious suggestion. Amendments 240C, 240D, 240F, 240G, 240H and 240J would allow l...

Baroness Browning | 728 c479 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, consultation and guidelines are being drawn up, but I believe that I can give that assuran...

Baroness Browning | 728 c480 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. Because of the noise factor, we are allowing environmental health ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c479 (Link to this contribution) Some of the Minister’s explanation of individual clauses was very clear but I found her introduction...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c480-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I thank the Minister for addressing my particular concerns. I am greatly in favour...

Baroness Browning | 728 c480 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am pleased to say that I already have the answer. I can tell my noble friend that the co...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c480 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in a less regulated world, I wonder if the Minister can help me. The proposals for standar...

Lord Shipley | 728 c483 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I make the fairly obvious point that training of staff should apply before people take up ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c482-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and I shall speak to Amendment 240N,...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c481-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, given the late hour and that this is our last group of amendments, I shall not tempt fate ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c481 (Link to this contribution) 240KA: Before Clause 119, insert the following new Clause— ““Allowing the sale of alcohol to childre...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c484 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for that explanation. I do say to the Government that...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c483-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for tabling these amendments because the Government take a ve...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c463 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have the answer to the noble Baroness’s question but I assure he...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c463 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, could he provide me with an assurance that the change that the Govern...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c463-4 (Link to this contribution) 237B: Clause 106, page 67, line 11, leave out paragraphs (a) to (c) and insert ““for paragraphs (a) ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c463 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for his comments in what has been a very interesting de...

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 728 c459-61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am pleased to have the opportunity to support Amendment 237A and Amendment 244, tabled b...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c458-9 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely aware of that, and for that reason I do not think that it is necessarily a practical ...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c461-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to my noble friends and other noble Lords who were unaware of the regrouping o...

Earl of Listowel | 728 c461 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have been shocked in the past when this issue has arisen and we have looked at the close...

Lord Clement-Jones | 728 c458 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a baby boomer myself I will not add to the confessionals this afternoon, but I would sa...

Lord Soley | 728 c457-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, share the view that alcohol is not a bad thing and that done responsibly it is goo...

Viscount Astor | 728 c456-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in commenting on the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, I should perhaps e...

Lord Shipley | 728 c455-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak first to Amendment 237A. It is an extremely important amendment because it defines not...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c455 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the Committee. I was part of the discussions, but I did not double-check th...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c455 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend will speak to the substance of the amendments, but noble Lords may have no...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c454-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 244, which unashamedly originates in Wales. Its aim is to make ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c452-4 (Link to this contribution) This amendment seeks to go back to the general duties of licensing authorities to ask why we do not ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c452 (Link to this contribution) 237A: After Clause 104, insert the following new Clause— ““General duties of licensing authorities (...

Lord Ramsbotham | 728 c452 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that detailed reply, which has given us a great deal to ...

Lord Blencathra | 728 c415 (Link to this contribution) 233: After Clause 95, insert the following new Clause— ““Application of health and safety enactments...

Lord Blencathra | 728 c415-20 (Link to this contribution) I need to correct a mistake I made in 1996-97. It was not the only one I made then, but it is the on...

Lord Condon | 728 c420-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, for moving this amendment. In his typically gener...

Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington | 728 c422-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, say to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, that he owes me no apologies at all. As an...

Lord Dear | 728 c423-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, enough weight of artillery fire has been directed at this target to demolish it. I shall t...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority when the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Kirk...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 728 c426-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, for instigating this debate, although the p...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c427 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am relieved at the way this debate has developed because, when I first saw this amendmen...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c427-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, for introducing this fascinating debate. However,...

Lord Dear | 728 c429 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord will accept that my point was not on the facts, which I know; it was on the p...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 728 c429-31 (Link to this contribution) No, indeed, I very much agree with the noble Lord. I was not suggesting that he, by raising the poin...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c431-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in a very useful, serious and worthwhile debat...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c433-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move Amendment 233A on behalf of my noble friend Lord Lester of Herne Hill. Refer...

Lord Bach | 728 c434-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, on having picked up this point so well fro...

Lord Blencathra | 728 c432-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am so pleased in retrospect that I tabled this new clause, because it has enabled me and...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c433 (Link to this contribution) 233A: After Clause 96, insert the following new Clause— ““Exemption from civil proceedings for tresp...

Lord Bach | 728 c436 (Link to this contribution) I very nearly did leave a note to my successor but I am very glad that I did not.

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c436-7 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has made a number of detailed points on the amendment, which I understand. I am prep...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c435-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it falls to me to answer this debate. I have to say that I am not fully briefed on whether...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c436 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend may be a dog with a bone, but he is quite a pedigree sort of dog. Clearly,...

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 728 c441-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support all of the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and I shall speak part...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 728 c443-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in welcoming this initiative, both as tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and as su...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 728 c444 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support this initiative introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff—...

Lord Soley | 728 c444-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment too, but I do not wish to repeat what has already been said in con...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c437-8 (Link to this contribution) 235: After Schedule 16, insert the following new Schedule— ““SCHEDULE Youth rehabilitation orders: a...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c438-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the Front Benches for allowing a partial degrouping whereby we will ...

Viscount Astor | 728 c440-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am extremely interested in the noble Baroness’s amendment but it addresses only half the...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 728 c446-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, and your Lordshi...

Lord Shipley | 728 c447 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will say a word about Amendment 237A. It is one of the most important amendments that we...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c447 (Link to this contribution) That is an amendment in my name, but I have agreed to degroup it. We will be coming to it shortly.

Baroness Browning | 728 c449-50 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Lord will forgive me, but I wish to make some progress. I support the underlyi...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 728 c450 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister, whose sincerity I believe in. I have enjoyed working with her in...

Baroness Browning | 728 c448 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a helpful and interesting debate. I fully acknowledge the picture that was p...

Lord Soley | 728 c449 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c447-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I also support this group of amendments. When Kit Malthouse, the deputy mayor of London—fo...

Lord Shipley | 728 c448 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to put on record the support of my noble friend Lord Palmer for this amendment as h...

Lord Shipley | 728 c447 (Link to this contribution) I had not realised that it had been degrouped; I am sorry.

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 728 c447 (Link to this contribution) While I am on my feet, I will make one or two points before the Minister responds. The noble Viscoun...

Lord Ramsbotham | 728 c450 (Link to this contribution) 237ZA: Clause 104, page 66, line 18, at end insert— ““(aa) after paragraph (a) insert— ““(aa) the Ch...

Lord Ramsbotham | 728 c450-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, who is recovering from an operation. T...

Lord De Mauley | 728 c451-2 (Link to this contribution) The amendments would, as the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, said, put the British Transport Police on ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c380 (Link to this contribution) Let me be clear: the amendments are couched in terms of London but the principle of an independent e...

Baroness Browning | 728 c379-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may begin with that last point. We all understand complaints which involve crimi...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c380 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly possible that it would go the courts. However, I was thinking more of an equally com...

Lord Soley | 728 c380 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right in saying there is potential for political conflict of the type that h...

Lord Rosser | 728 c381 (Link to this contribution) First, I thank all those noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, which has clearly raised a numb...

Baroness Browning | 728 c381 (Link to this contribution) In reply to the noble Lord, standards and governance would not be something we would wish to put in ...

Lord Rosser | 728 c381 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister just say what issues these discussions are covering?

Baroness Browning | 728 c381 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord and perhaps I can just clarify that. These discussions between the H...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c378-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, which raises quite a number of issues. Let u...

Baroness Browning | 728 c381 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to be too defensive on this but it is a matter that we are looking at. With ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c386-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this part of the Bill is one of the most important. I speak to Amendments 229 and 230 in m...

Baroness Doocey | 728 c386 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have tabled Amendments 221 and 222 in this group, concerning the duty of the Home Secret...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c384-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have Amendments 223, 224 and 225 in this group. I support the amendments in the group th...

Baroness Henig | 728 c382-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 220ZA, 220ZB, 221B, 228B and 228C. These amendments can b...

Lord Rosser | 728 c391-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, wish to speak to amendments in my name—Amendments 220ZC, 221A, 225ZB and 228A. Cla...

Lord Ramsbotham | 728 c390-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I must apologise to the Committee for not being here when Clause 5, on the requirement on ...

Baroness Harris of Richmond | 728 c390 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in supporting my noble friend’s amendment—my name is added to Amendment 225ZA—I remind the...

Baroness Walmsley | 728 c389-90 (Link to this contribution) As my noble friend Lady Hamwee said, I have an amendment in this group—Amendment 225ZA—which seeks t...

Baroness Henig | 728 c382 (Link to this contribution) 220ZA: Clause 79, page 49, line 8, at beginning insert ““Subject to subsection (1A),””

Lord Rosser | 728 c381-2 (Link to this contribution) I will at this stage leave it at that. I thank the Minister for that further information. I hope tha...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c396-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, most people here know a great deal more about this than I do, but we all know that there i...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c396 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the issue is that the national crime agency will have the ability to direct resources whic...

Baroness Henig | 728 c398 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask about the draft strategic policing requirement document that I referred to.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c396 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may remind the opposition Front Bench that we could have taken the Statement on the nation...

Lord Rosser | 728 c396 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister says that we will discuss the national crime agency on a later occasion, does he m...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c396 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Serious Organised Crime Agency already exists and the national crime agency will be an...

Lord Rosser | 728 c396 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly true that we did not take the Statement yesterday but there was other rather importa...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c394-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, that this is one of the most importa...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c395 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord asked about 65 questions and I fear that it might take a great deal of time to answer...

Lord Rosser | 728 c395 (Link to this contribution) Surely the noble Lord is not telling me that he has not read the paper that the Secretary of State p...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c400 (Link to this contribution) I can reassure the noble Baroness that that is precisely the situation as we understand it.

Baroness Henig | 728 c400 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point. If it is a legally backed concept that has a very clear set of conditions attac...

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c400 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness, who has gone on to another point. Does she agree that it...

Baroness Henig | 728 c399-400 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply and I thank all noble Lords who participated in the deb...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c399 (Link to this contribution) The strategic policing requirement is intended, among other things, to inform the inspectors on the ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c399 (Link to this contribution) My reason for pressing the point is that it is extremely important. It is a mechanism that will enab...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c399 (Link to this contribution) I will take that back before I start to drop my notes. My understanding is that the question of how ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 728 c398-9 (Link to this contribution) I may have missed it, but I do not recall the Minister responding to my point in relation to Amendme...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c398 (Link to this contribution) There were so many questions that I missed that point in my notes. My understanding of what was said...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 728 c465 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Baroness Hamwee | 728 c472 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lord Shipley and I have not necessarily taken the same view on this part o...

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 728 c458 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord aware that the Scottish Parliament has already drafted one?

Baroness Henig | 728 c400-1 (Link to this contribution) I am very happy about that, in particular, but also about the other issues because there is going to...

Subjects

Complaints

Children

Abuse

Accountability

Clubs

Discipline

Alcoholic drinks

Anti-social behaviour

Civil proceedings

British Transport Police

Inspections