Parliamentary search - Personal Care at Home Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

717 c817-27, 833-61, 872-7, 887-916

Session

2009-10

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Personal Care at Home Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 23 also published.
Wednesday, 13 January 2010
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Wilkins | 717 c911-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be brief. I strongly support Amendment 32, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Best...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c912-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will reply to the group which comprises Amendments 19, 32, 33, 37 and 42. I have taken o...

Show all contributions (116)

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c912 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to support the probing in relation to housing and dementia. I will say no more abou...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c915 (Link to this contribution) No, it does not cover Wales. I can write to the noble Baroness about what bits are covered where and...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c914 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Bill covers Wales? I do not want it to feel left out, a...

Earl Howe | 717 c915-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to feel that those noble Lords who spoke so very ably to their individual ame...

Lord Butler of Brockwell | 717 c892-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support Amendments 38 and 46, particularly Amendment 46, on the grounds that they would ...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c893 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, follow that, as they say. The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, has three amendments in this group ...

Earl Howe | 717 c890-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Best, has succinctly summed up the case. The Government’s timetable f...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c891-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak in favour of the two amendments to which I have appended my name, Amendments...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c895 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having listened to the debate on these amendments, I think that whatever happens, it is mo...

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c895-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support many of the amendments in this group: Amendments 17, 38, 44, 46 and, with some m...

Baroness Barker | 717 c893-4 (Link to this contribution) I will speak to Amendment 47, which stands in my name and is grouped here. In doing so, I thank the ...

Bishop of Norwich | 717 c894-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the financing of this Bill is a puzzle to me but then lots of things to do with finance ar...

Lord Best | 717 c887 (Link to this contribution) 17: Clause 1, page 1, line 22, at end insert— "( ) not be enacted before 1 April 2011"

Lord Best | 717 c887-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have already declared my interest as chair of the Hanover Housing Association, which pro...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, of course I regret my failure to seduce the Minister: I shall bear it with as much equanim...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c875 (Link to this contribution) I support the idea of a pilot scheme, but if it is introduced, it is important that it covers widely...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c875-6 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 11 and 15 in the names of my noble friends Lord Warner and Lord Lipsey and the noble Baro...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c876 (Link to this contribution) I apologise profoundly that I was not here at the beginning of this debate—I was whipping through th...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) My understanding on the discretion with regard to reablement is that, indeed, the local authority ha...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) Would it cover people with cancer and motor neuron, where reablement might make them worse rather th...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) That is the point—you have to look at each person’s issues and problems. With cancer, reablement mig...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) That is another example of flexibility.

Baroness Thornton | 717 c877 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly the point, yes.

Lord Lipsey | 717 c874-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one thing that has come out very clearly from the debate is the extreme doubt about the co...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c910-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support Amendments 32, 33, 37 and 42. I was very interested in the comments of ...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c911 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Best. He is right about the importance of t...

Baroness Greengross | 717 c908 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment 33. I want to speak particularly about people suffering from dementia. ...

Baroness Barker | 717 c908-10 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments 37 and 42, which stand in my name. I am pleased, as always, to follow th...

Earl Howe | 717 c905-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 19 is intended as a means of raising a series of questions to the Minister about...

Lord Best | 717 c906-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak to Amendment 32 in this group, which might be called the housing amendment as that...

Baroness Barker | 717 c905 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her characteristically comprehensive and thorough response to the ame...

Earl Howe | 717 c905 (Link to this contribution) 19: Clause 1, page 1, line 22, at end insert— "( ) specify the meaning of "personal care" for the pu...

Earl Howe | 717 c905 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, decides what to do with her amendment, may I ask t...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c905 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to do that. Having worked opposite the noble Earl for the past two years, I think it is w...

Earl Howe | 717 c902-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 22 and 41 in my name are grouped here. I echo a great deal of what the noble Ba...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c903-4 (Link to this contribution) I take this opportunity to recognise the key role played by carers in supporting family networks wit...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c897-900 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly look into ensuring that those calculations are published as far as they can be. I t...

Lord Best | 717 c900 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the support from all round the Committee for the amendments in my name. ...

Baroness Barker | 717 c900 (Link to this contribution) 18: Clause 1, page 1, line 22, at end insert— "( ) specify that the assessment of the person in need...

Baroness Barker | 717 c900-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at Second Reading a number of noble Lords talked about the position of carers, the positio...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c896 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, raised an important point regarding the personnel availab...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c897 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am replying to this group of amendments: Amendment 17, in the name of the noble Lord, Lo...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c897 (Link to this contribution) May I please interrupt the Minister? It might save the Committee a lot of time if she would agree to...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c841 (Link to this contribution) I have a query on Amendment 29. If a person moves from one authority to another, it might be because...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c840-1 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to Amendment 29 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell. It is right that p...

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c840 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, not surprisingly, many of us had anticipated that as we probed into the details of the Bil...

Lord Tebbit | 717 c839-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can help us, or at least help me. I refer to the proposals m...

Baroness Barker | 717 c838-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on my way here today I tried to work out how I would explain and justify to people what I ...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 717 c838 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak as somebody who supports the Bill and I am therefore somewhat confused by this gro...

Lord Eden of Winton | 717 c837-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Howe. In doing so, I confess to a ce...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 717 c835-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak to Amendment 29, and I would like to thank the noble Earl, Lord Howe, for allowing...

Earl Howe | 717 c833-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak at the same time to Amendments 6, 14, 16, 27 and 40. One of the main concerns...

Earl Howe | 717 c833 (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 1, page 1, line 4, at end insert— "( ) In subsection (1), after "charge" insert "or charge...

Baroness Barker | 717 c825 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a point that I hope will endure for the whole of our debate: it is a plea for clarity...

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c824-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand and accept the validity of the points that have just been made. One of the lacunae in t...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c827 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all the noble Lords who have spoken. This whole situation is very complex. One of ...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c825-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in replying to Amendments 3 and 39 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, and th...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c823 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham. I emphasise the point bo...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c823 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I also support the noble Baroness but I am concerned about a number of things. One is the ...

Lord Tebbit | 717 c824 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I always hate to disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, on these kinds of issues b...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c824 (Link to this contribution) I add my two penny worth to this amendment. I rather naively thought that there was a right of appea...

Earl Howe | 717 c822-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to these amendments, which follow on very neatly from those in the na...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c822 (Link to this contribution) The Bill before your Lordships has no right of appeal for those people who desperately need personal...

Lord Low of Dalston | 717 c821 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her reply and to all noble Lords who have spoken and giv...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c820-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am replying to Amendments 2 and 4, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Ear...

Bishop of Norwich | 717 c820 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add my support for the amendment. One of the most distressing features of increasing inc...

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c819 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment for the reasons already given. One of the great dangers in providi...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c822 (Link to this contribution) 3: Clause 1, page 1, line 4, leave out "(5)" and insert "(5A)"

Lord Low of Dalston | 717 c818 (Link to this contribution) 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 4, leave out "(2)" and insert "(1A)"

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c819 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in theory the amendment is good but I have some questions about it. I am interested in the...

Baroness Wilkins | 717 c819 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment, which would place an explicit duty on service providers to involve...

Earl Howe | 717 c818-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak very briefly to support the noble Lord, Lord Low, in all that he has said about se...

Lord Low of Dalston | 717 c818 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendment 4. It is a pleasant change to be moving the first amendmen...

Earl Howe | 717 c854 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my understanding of the amendment is the same as that of the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey. It i...

Lord Best | 717 c853 (Link to this contribution) Then I withdraw my objection to the amendment.

Lord Lipsey | 717 c853 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord. The purpose of the amendment is precisely the reverse of wha...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 717 c856 (Link to this contribution) I may be mistaken, but my recollection is that a number of years ago, there was a commission that ma...

Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 717 c855-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lords who have proposed Amendment 7 make a very important point—that one of the ...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c854-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I listened to the noble Lord, Lord Best, and I too was pleased to be reassured. Extra-care...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 717 c860 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is almost the centre of every debate that we have about how we deliver services. An a...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 717 c856-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this group of amendments deals, in one form or another, with the Bill’s provision on what ...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 717 c860 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister finishes, I have one question. How is he going to make inflexible loca...

Lord Tunnicliffe | 717 c861 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that there has been specific modelling. My understanding is that the fragility of t...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c860 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, has there been any specific financial modelling on our Amendment 7 regarding the impact of...

Earl Howe | 717 c872 (Link to this contribution) 9: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, leave out "personal"

Lord Lipsey | 717 c861 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, anybody listening to these debates might find them becoming increasingly surrealistic. The...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c873-4 (Link to this contribution) Again, I have a very long note about all the different issues that I thought the noble Earl might ra...

Earl Howe | 717 c872-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 12, 31, 35 and 43. We come to an issue which I personally find extr...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c874 (Link to this contribution) As I think I have said to other noble Lords, I regard this Committee stage as feeding into the consi...

Earl Howe | 717 c874 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. The reason for tabling amendments omitting the word "person...

Earl Howe | 717 c874 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much welcome that assurance. I know that Sense will be very pleased that it will ha...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c874 (Link to this contribution) 11: Clause 1, page 1, line 16, leave out "requiring" and insert "permitting"

Lord Tebbit | 717 c844 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must have lost the piece of paper, which I am sure she has been handed by her officials...

Baroness Barker | 717 c843 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, that short statement does not encapsulate a very big, detailed report, which came out...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c841-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the ease of the debate, it might be simpler first to deal with Amendment 29 and then t...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 717 c841 (Link to this contribution) Before Report, we should certainly look at the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. It is my...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) We have never said that 460,000 people will receive all their care costs. We estimate that the numbe...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) Our estimate is that 400,000 people will benefit. The estimate is not that 400,000 people will have ...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister could clarify that. Am I correct in thinking that the number of people who will...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c844-5 (Link to this contribution) I can give the noble Lord the overall costs of this scheme, which, as we are well aware, are £670 mi...

Lord Tebbit | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, and understand some of her difficulties; but perhaps she c...

Earl Howe | 717 c846-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate, and to the Minister fo...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 717 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Earl, Lord Howe, responds, I thank the Minister for her extremely constructive resp...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c847 (Link to this contribution) 7: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out subsection (2)

Baroness Thornton | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has not got the decimal point in the wrong place. The figures work. I am not sure wha...

Lord Tebbit | 717 c845 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I might check with other noble Lords whether I have the decimal point in the right...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c849-52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to Amendments 7 and 10, and I support the words of the noble Lord, Lo...

Baroness Barker | 717 c852-3 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to my Amendment 13 in this group. The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, talked about the crit...

Lord Best | 717 c853 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak against Amendment 10, which seeks not to apply the provision of free personal care to ...

Baroness Pitkeathley | 717 c901-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is no doubt that most families want to provide care for their elderly and disabled r...

Baroness Thornton | 717 c843-4 (Link to this contribution) I take the noble Baroness’s point and recognise that she is much more expert on that issue, through ...

Baroness Pitkeathley | 717 c847 (Link to this contribution) If Amendment 7 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 8 for reasons of pre-emption. Amendment 7 Mov...

Baroness Murphy | 717 c856 (Link to this contribution) I would like to support what the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, has just said about that element. I ab...

Lord Lipsey | 717 c847-9 (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Warner, whose name is first appended to this am...

Subjects

Disability

Care homes

Appeals

Carers

Costs

Community care

Dementia

Disability aids

Hearing impairment

Housing

Finance

Fees and charges

Eligibility

Expenditure

Equipment

Home care services

Local government

Private sector

Recruitment

Older people

Staff

Palliative care

Mental health

Scotland

Visual impairment

Training

Wales

Social services

Personal budgets

Legislation

Personal Care at Home Bill 2009-10

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk