UK Parliament / Open data

Employment Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 13 March 2008, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
699 c257-318GC 
Session
2007-08
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Employment Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 13-EN published).
Thursday, 6 December 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c277GC (Link to this contribution) We do not support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Tu...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c264-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24AA: 24AA: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Voluntary work...

Show all contributions (113)
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c262-3GC (Link to this contribution) One often reads in newspapers about my purported or suggested, and highly erroneous, views on the na...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord omitted to notice that the Long Title says, "““to make provision about the enforc...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that most helpful steer. If she had had the pleasure of being in the ...
Lord Henley | 699 c296GC (Link to this contribution) I offer a brief word of support for my noble friend in moving the amendment on behalf of our mutual ...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c293-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26: 26: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause— ““Duty to protect we...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c283-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for what he has said. I would welcome the chance to discuss this. There are som...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c281GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that workers who come from a foreign country and do not work in the UK have no con...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was allowed to address the Grand Committee for another moment. I retain my view tha...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to continue with my probing of this part of the Bill. Clause 11 markedly increases the ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c267GC (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the noble Baroness raised this. When I was trying to get my mind around it the other ...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) To some extent, the Minister has tried to clarify the position on accommodation but I am less clear ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c268GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may allay the fears of my noble friends Lord Wedderburn and Lord Borrie by making the foll...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister answer the other point that I raised about who would decide the test of reasonablen...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c261GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. On this occasion, I do not have to hear what the Minister says. If one lo...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c264GC (Link to this contribution) The national minimum wage is a matter for considerable debate in this Bill in many respects, althoug...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c258-9GC (Link to this contribution) Welcome back. I hope that the changes that we are introducing in the Bill show how seriously we cons...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) For the record and for the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, I should say that the Minister is replying o...
Lord Haskel | 699 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could tell the noble Lord that if—
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c300-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26A: 26A: Before Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— ““Expulsion of me...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. I am somewhat relieved because I thought it would be mo...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that very detailed reply, which my noble friend Lord James will read with g...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, for his comments. I am not sure exactly what my noble frien...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c290-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, for so eloquently reading out the remarks of the ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Lord and my noble friend that I will get back to them both with details of exactl...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) As I understood the noble Lord, he mentioned Section 2(9) and later he said Section 9, but some part...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c280GC (Link to this contribution) Should not the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, consider what happened many years ago and whether ships ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c280GC (Link to this contribution) The answer to the question could be found in 10 minutes. I am trapped here, but if someone would loo...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to intrude on this issue. I only do so because the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, r...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) What does the noble Lord think £1.50 per hour is if it is not slave labour?
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c311-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may answer the question, especially as it comes from a noble Lord who tried to teach me th...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c311GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord, Lord Lester, one question, although I am afraid it involves a lega...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c309GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to deal with this, and am therefore particularly grateful for the opportunity to do ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) Let me just finish. In fairness, I have to try to explain this first, and then I can be shot down. I...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c308GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could just finish explaining. I will then certainly sit down. If one does not have my amen...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Lord understands what I am trying to say. It is my fault, I am sure. W...
Lord Geddes | 699 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I will not waste the Grand Committee’s time with regard to adjournments in the event of Divisions be...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c316-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords for their helpful contributions to the debate. Of course, I am grea...
Lord Bach | 699 c318GC (Link to this contribution) This may be convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn.
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the involvement of the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, in the debate. He is not onl...
Lord Razzall | 699 c276GC (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the amendment raises an important issue and the Government need to consider the representat...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c273-6GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Turner suggests that I add my voice to hers. We are talking about thousands of ...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) It seems as though the noble Baroness was reading directly from what the Chamber of Shipping has bee...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I like the word ““slave””. I come from Plymouth—a seafaring city—so perhaps I kno...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c277GC (Link to this contribution) I was waiting for the noble Baroness to finish that part of her speech. Perhaps I may intervene. Doe...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Rhetoric will not resolve this serious problem. Talking about slave labour is not a useful way to ap...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c264GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister, particularly for his reassurance that the Government have no plans to expand t...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I endorse everything that my noble friend Lord Borrie said and we congratulate the Government on thi...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may write to noble Lords on why there is a distinction between reimbursement of rental exp...
Lord Borrie | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) A substantial chunk of the Bill is headed ““National minimum wage””. As my noble friend Lord Wedderb...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c261GC (Link to this contribution) Like my probing stand part debate on Clause 10, this debate is to explore whether it is necessary to...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c260-1GC (Link to this contribution) If anybody is to shout ““Shame”” for that, it would be me, but I move on. I was going to say that my...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c259GC (Link to this contribution) The thrust of my argument is that we have to get the—I hope, rarely pursued—criminality provisions i...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to resist the noble Baroness’s opposition to the Question, particularly because research sugg...
Lord Henley | 699 c303-4GC (Link to this contribution) I think the Minister will find that this is a warm-up to further debates we will have today, on anot...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, has tabled this amendment in order to stimu...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c305-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to all noble Lords who have spoken, including the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c301-2GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for missing 10 minutes of the debate when I had to leave the Room. However, the noble Lo...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) I add my congratulations to the noble Baroness not only on her amendment but on the examples that sh...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c297-9GC (Link to this contribution) Without doubt, the Government support the intention behind the amendment. It is essential that there...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c290GC (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to my noble friend Lady Gardner as she spoke to the amendment. I do not thi...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c284GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just put a question and has conceded that in government thinking there is no distin...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c284-5GC (Link to this contribution) I can, I hope, deal with that very quickly and say something that will satisfy my noble friends. The...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but my attention was diverted, so for clarification would the noble Lord repeat to which ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) I was surprised to hear that the noble Lord, Lord Lester, has been in touch with the TUC, because, a...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, will be patient for a moment, I am trying to explain a complicat...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, will have plenty of opportunity to reply to this in a moment. Can I...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c309GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. He proceeded on to another point. First, I want to say to him ...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c307GC (Link to this contribution) We have not heard about this with the rule books before. If it is to be a serious contribution, will...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify one thing for the noble Baroness. When I said that I had seen the TUC and the ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) An individual member may now appeal to the certification officer, as many of them do, if they feel t...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I did not expect to be supported by the present attitude of the TUC, but I want to make it perfectly...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway. We often agree on issues. He has told me that...
Lord Henley | 699 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene to say how grateful the Committee is for the brevity with which the noble Lord, Lord Les...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thought the noble Baroness might enjoy that one. The amendment would undoubtedly complicate the l...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c316GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise, but I want to intervene for a constructive purpose. In view of what was said by the nob...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c316GC (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, that I will make those inquiries. I will ask for ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) I am so sorry; I forgot. The test of reasonableness will ultimately be decided by a judge in a tribu...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c270-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24B: 24B: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Application of t...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to respond to these government amendments, which we welcome. They are good news for b...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c267GC (Link to this contribution) Is Amendment No. 24AA basically about a tax issue? We all remember the Mallalieu case of the black c...
Lord Borrie | 699 c267-8GC (Link to this contribution) The Government deserve to be congratulated on thinking this one out so that, without triggering the ...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) I should be very careful not to trespass into too many arguments with other sides of the Committee. ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Henley, for using his crystal ball. If he had sat down fo...
Lord Henley | 699 c263GC (Link to this contribution) This is very important. As the Minister knows, the Revenue already has pretty extensive powers. I re...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c259GC (Link to this contribution) I did not wish to speak until I had heard what the Minister was going to say. How grateful we are th...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. The noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, threw me slightly, because I di...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot answer the noble Baroness’s question to me. My stress was not so much on the penalties for ...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak but, having listened to the noble Lord with rapt attention because of his k...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I will deal with this when I oppose Amendment No. 27. I shall not weary your Lordships by replying t...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall make a tiny speech on this amendment explaining why I oppose it, but I shall have to make a ...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c286-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25: 25: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause— ““Additional restric...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c285-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for his response. In some ways I found it very helpful; in other ways I was ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister answer one question? My simple mind is slightly bemused because he said that Europ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c281-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Wedderburn for asking me a question I was just about to come t...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c280-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the past few moments with great interest from many different angles. First, I tha...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c279-80GC (Link to this contribution) I have also been searching through the 3,000 pages of the guide to employment law for that point, an...
Lord Brett | 699 c278-9GC (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a recent employee of the International Labour Organisation. I refer all Mem...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat: to speak of slave labour is not a reasonable way in which to approach this problem. If the...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) Is it important that there be safeguards against abuse. A trade union is not the Garrick Club or any...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c306-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27: 27: Clause 17, page 16, leave out lines 9 to 14 and insert— ““(a) at the e...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c306GC (Link to this contribution) No, I am not withdrawing it. Oh! Yes, I have to. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, ...
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