UK Parliament / Open data

Climate Change Bill [HL]

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 8 January 2008, in the House of Lords.
Climate Change Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage third day. Clauses 6 to 12 agreed to. Part 1 of 2 records.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c741-806 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Climate Change Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 9-EN published).
Wednesday, 14 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Rooker | 697 c796-7 (Link to this contribution) As there is some confusion here I shall start, at the risk of repeating myself after the last debate...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c795 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to intervene on my noble friend again on the word ““method””. They may well c...

Show all contributions (137)
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c795 (Link to this contribution) Surely it is completely inconceivable that the Secretary of State, whoever it may be at the time, wo...
Lord Hunt of Chesterton | 697 c795-6 (Link to this contribution) I used to run the Met Office. We produced weather statistics and government Ministers would say that...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c794 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise. Could the noble Lord refer me to which of the amendments on which page he is ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c794 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Clause 12(2)(b) states: ““identify the methods””. The amendment refers to ““approved by””....
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c795 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot disagree. But that is quite different from this statement of facts that have to b...
Lord Bridges | 697 c795 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am tempted to refer to a statement made by the Government a few clauses back. The outcom...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c794 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I suppose that I should put a contradictory point of view. Unusually, I agree with the nob...
Baroness Byford | 697 c794 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend. I do not support the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, because c...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c793 (Link to this contribution) I like this amendment a lot. It takes us back to the earlier debate on the powers of the climate cha...
Lord Teverson | 697 c793-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am in a strange position in this area. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, mentioned the word “...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c792 (Link to this contribution) In which case, I have to ask the Minister’s forgiveness. I have managed to clarify the situation in ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c792-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 67: 67: Clause 12, page 6, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) The statement must be...
Lord Rooker | 697 c792 (Link to this contribution) I feel really hurt about this. I went way beyond my brief. I actually explained, almost, how the nob...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c791 (Link to this contribution) It may appear to be a reasonable response, but the reason why these amendments may be important is b...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c791 (Link to this contribution) I listened closely to what my noble friend said. I did not understand him to say that he is totally ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c805 (Link to this contribution) I apologise that my amendment does not say what I meant it to say. As the amendment stands, I would ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c805-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will recognise that I am obliged to respond to the amendment before the Committee. Th...
Lord Teverson | 697 c806 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response, but to be honest I do not buy it, because multinational corpo...
Lord Rooker | 697 c806 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that this would be an appropriate moment to break and that we do not return until 8.37 pm....
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c803-4 (Link to this contribution) This has again been a useful debate. It will perhaps be useful to bear in mind what we have said abo...
Lord Rooker | 697 c803 (Link to this contribution) We appreciate the spirit of what the noble Lord seeks to achieve. I repeat that we are keen to ensur...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c804 (Link to this contribution) The suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is certainly interesting. It would help the Committ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c804 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75: 75: Clause 12, page 7, line 10, leave out from ““than”” to end and insert ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c804-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand the motivation behind the amendment, which the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, made clear in...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c801 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister responds perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, will clarify two matters. First, i...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c801-2 (Link to this contribution) The amendment does indeed contain the phrase, "““and recommendations for new measures, proposals or ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c800-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70: 70: Clause 12, page 6, line 33, at end insert— ““( ) It must contain a com...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 697 c801 (Link to this contribution) This is an interesting amendment because if the figures produced by the Committee on Climate Change ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c802-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall probably embarrass the noble Lord, Lord Woolmer, by agreeing with him again in this area. I ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c798 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 68: 68: Clause 12, page 6, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) state the amount for ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c800 (Link to this contribution) You win one and you lose one. I thought Amendment No. 74 was quite simple and straightforward. Obvio...
Earl of Selborne | 697 c798-9 (Link to this contribution) In the debate on the previous amendment the Minister rightly pointed out that there was an internati...
Lord Rooker | 697 c790-1 (Link to this contribution) I am in trouble here. Regarding the final points made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, about having...
Earl of Selborne | 697 c789 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that the Minister will tell us that it would be unusual to stipulate the need for an amend...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c789 (Link to this contribution) My remarks will be extremely brief. I support the amendments moved by my noble friends for the very ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c791 (Link to this contribution) Probably for the first time in the Committee’s discussions, I feel really disappointed by the Minist...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c787 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, has expressed things in precisely the same terms as I would be likel...
Lord Teverson | 697 c789 (Link to this contribution) This seems to be a very good way of ensuring that these reports are debated within Parliament. We ar...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c788-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 66: 66: Clause 12, page 6, line 22, after ““Parliament”” insert ““and table a ...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c788 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not feel able to go along with the Minister one bit. Here, I am drawing to the...
Lord Rooker | 697 c784-5 (Link to this contribution) It was not in that part, but it was elsewhere. I do not want anyone to get the impression that susta...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c784 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the noble Lord pointing that out. All I ask is for that provision to be put in t...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c785 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was going to be clean-bowled with the one contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Camp...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c785 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that he was not sure what the Joint Committee on the draft Bill had said on this m...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c786-7 (Link to this contribution) For once, I disagree with my noble friend. For better or worse, we have devolution. I was not in fav...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c785-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63: 63: Clause 11, page 6, line 18, at end insert— ““( ) The authorities refer...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c783 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether I could suggest a way forward, as I have probably managed to insert more sustainabl...
Lord Teverson | 697 c782-3 (Link to this contribution) I think that I understand the reasoning, purpose and motivation behind the amendment, but if we read...
Lord Rooker | 697 c784 (Link to this contribution) In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Young, I say that in my back pocket is Clause 49, the progra...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c784 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment of my noble friend in one sense, but in another sense it is the right amendm...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c782 (Link to this contribution) I was going to generally support my noble friend’s amendment for two reasons, but I am bound to say ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c781-2 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned about this amendment; it worries me. The noble Earl will know that I have sought to b...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c780-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61: 61: Clause 11, page 6, line 15, at end insert— ““( ) The proposals and pol...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c780 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Byford perhaps sought to address the point that it is quite difficult, when con...
Lord Rooker | 697 c780 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Baroness is asking for the Bill to be so prescriptive that policy-making gets interfere...
Baroness Byford | 697 c779 (Link to this contribution) I would like to support my noble friend’s amendment but I am getting quite concerned by the Minister...
Lord Rooker | 697 c779 (Link to this contribution) I was conscious as I made that point that I had got the line wrong—it is line 5 but it is the first ...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c778-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. Does not what he has just said apply exactly and precisely to...
Lord Rooker | 697 c778 (Link to this contribution) The way in which Bills are drafted changed some time ago. Clause titles always used to be set at the...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c778 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend’s dilemma would be solved if the Government accepted the amendment and altered the p...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c777 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Perhaps I should have taken more time. This is all part and parcel of the debate that we ha...
Lord Teverson | 697 c776 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may just say to the noble Lord that I understand his problem.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c777-8 (Link to this contribution) My intervention will be modest, technical and brief. I in no way disagree with my noble friends on t...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c777 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend, who has said what I was going to say on my Amendment No. 64A, which is gr...
Baroness Hayman | 697 c776 (Link to this contribution) Is Amendment No. 60 not moved? Are we sure?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c776 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. Words mean everything and nothing, really. I suppose that th...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c776 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 60: 60: Clause 11, page 6, line 15, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of Stat...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c776 (Link to this contribution) I think that my noble friend might want to move this amendment.
Lord Jay of Ewelme | 697 c774 (Link to this contribution) I was going to make almost exactly the same point as the one that the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, just...
Lord Oxburgh | 697 c774 (Link to this contribution) Neither Clause 11 in its present form nor the amendment quite captures the fact that you can have mu...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c770 (Link to this contribution) There are various ways in which this issue can be approached; for instance, by questions and by deba...
Lord Teverson | 697 c770-1 (Link to this contribution) The clause is very open. This matter could indeed be dealt with in all kinds of ways, but there need...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c771 (Link to this contribution) Surely there is an even stronger reason for the time limit to be included, which will be contained i...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c771 (Link to this contribution) We fully support measures to make sure that carbon budgets and proposals are set quickly and efficie...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c771-2 (Link to this contribution) I share the reservations of the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, about the amendment. I assure the ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c772 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and for some comfort that he may understand the need for discipli...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c772-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58: 58: Clause 11, page 6, line 13, leave out ““report setting out”” and inser...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c773-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall intervene briefly to speak tangentially to the amendment, as this offers me a peg to put a t...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c774 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support my noble friend’s amendment for the reasons that I indicated when I spoke briefly...
Lord Teverson | 697 c770 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 57: 57: Clause 11, page 6, line 11, leave out from beginning to ““the”” in lin...
Lord Teverson | 697 c770 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and further explanation. It is still extremely important for this...
Lord May of Oxford | 697 c767-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may speak briefly in support of the biodiversity amendment, but first I declare an interes...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c768 (Link to this contribution) We broadly agree with the spirit of these amendments, but that our way of going about it is better. ...
Baroness Byford | 697 c766-7 (Link to this contribution) I have often raised this matter in debates. When we debated the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—w...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 697 c767 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendment. I can understand why the Minister would make the intervention...
Baroness Byford | 697 c769 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way and for clarifying that for me. I assumed that was the ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c769-70 (Link to this contribution) That was the other part of my argument. We are very reluctant to add to the list because most of the...
Lord Rooker | 697 c768-9 (Link to this contribution) For the avoidance of any doubt, my earlier intervention was not in any way a criticism of the noble ...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c764-6 (Link to this contribution) Like the noble Lord, I could have made my remarks on the previous group debated, but perhaps chose n...
Lord Teverson | 697 c764 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that intervention, which is extremely useful. I understand that. However, I...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c766 (Link to this contribution) I shall intervene only briefly on this amendment to return to the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lo...
Lord Rooker | 697 c763 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it would be helpful if I added a further paragraph on that. If we ask ourselves how we know ...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c763 (Link to this contribution) This has certainly been an interesting debate; it has shone a light on to this issue from many diffe...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c761 (Link to this contribution) Why does the noble Earl say that the, "““matters to be taken into account””," defined in subsection...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c761 (Link to this contribution) They are negative in the sense that they are taking into account the consequence of what is being su...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 697 c762-3 (Link to this contribution) I was going to intervene later on a related matter, but it has come up now. I should like to make a ...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c761 (Link to this contribution) Please let me finish my sentence. It would be much easier for the British public who have to buy the...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c761 (Link to this contribution) Can we have another go at this? I do not think that the Minister fully understands what my noble fri...
Lord Rooker | 697 c760-1 (Link to this contribution) It is. There are lots of committees. I am sticking to the Committee on Climate Change at the moment....
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c760 (Link to this contribution) The interpretation that my noble friend puts on this is consonant with other legislation. It is not ...
Lord Jay of Ewelme | 697 c759 (Link to this contribution) Like the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, when I was considering the amendment, I thought about the relationsh...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c758-9 (Link to this contribution) I support Amendments Nos. 48 and 49A, although Amendments Nos. 50B, 51A and 53A are a bridge too far...
Lord May of Oxford | 697 c759 (Link to this contribution) The intention of the wording in the Bill is not inimical to that of the amendment, but I am in favou...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c755 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is supporting my case, in fact. If technologies became available that could bring for...
Lord Teverson | 697 c755-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her reply but I disagree completely. I do not wish to pursue this and I am ...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c756-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 48: 48: Clause 10, page 5, line 36, at end insert— ““( ) the actual and expect...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c757 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend most strongly on this. This is one of the most important amendments, and I...
Lord Hunt of Chesterton | 697 c757-8 (Link to this contribution) I support the spirit of this amendment, but I have been in this House long enough to look at the sma...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c754 (Link to this contribution) We were interested to hear the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, explain the amendment. It would change the...
Lord Teverson | 697 c753-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 43: 43: Clause 8, page 4, line 44, leave out ““with a view to meeting”” and in...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c755 (Link to this contribution) I understood the Minister to say that the 2042 budget could not be set to meet the 2050 target. My i...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c754-5 (Link to this contribution) I would dearly love to say that I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, and be very quick about it...
Lord Rooker | 697 c750-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the debate. I do not want to be accused of not listening because I agree with many...
Baroness Byford | 697 c752 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend responds to the Minister perhaps I may raise a couple of issues. I am pleased...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c749-50 (Link to this contribution) I have not joined in this discussion before but I listened to the debate with great interest. The no...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c750 (Link to this contribution) I urge the Minister to regard this amendment as an entirely honourable and almost noble attempt to s...
Lord Rooker | 697 c752 (Link to this contribution) I do not know about previous Bills but the House has its procedures. We are not revising a Bill that...
Lord Teverson | 697 c752-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, that the Bill is an indicator of the way in which politic...
Lord May of Oxford | 697 c748-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak in support of what I conceive to be the essence of this amendment: the preservation of...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c746-8 (Link to this contribution) If you want to concentrate the committee’s mind on the need to act responsibly, you have to give it ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c746 (Link to this contribution) I will break in on a good quality debate among those on the Conservative Benches. The noble Lord is ...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c745-6 (Link to this contribution) It is always very difficult when two noble friends present obverse and reverse sides of the same arg...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c741-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 39: 39: Clause 6, page 3, line 39, at end insert— ““( ) That power may only be...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c743-5 (Link to this contribution) I was not going to follow my noble friend immediately because I thought that other Members of the Co...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c797-8 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talks about duplication but has already admitted that there exists a body which is effe...
Earl of Selborne | 697 c794 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. I cannot envisage how the climate change co...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c799-800 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for those last remarks from the noble Earl, Lord Selborne. He identifies the difficult...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c753 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his positive and genuine response to the weight of the arguments that Membe...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c789 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support this amendment. It is perfectly sound and all of a piece with the overall recommenda...
Lord Rooker | 697 c764 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene—it is a habit from the other place—because the noble Lord is moving his amen...
Lord Rooker | 697 c759-60 (Link to this contribution) This has been a useful debate. I was almost going to rest my case on the fact that my noble friend L...
Lord Rooker | 697 c741 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c775 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the last two noble Lords who spoke because they represented the Government’s thinki...
Lord Teverson | 697 c763-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50: 50: Clause 10, page 5, line 40, after ““decision”” insert ““, whether posi...
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Climate Change Bill (HL) 2007-08
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