Finance Bill. Ways and Means resolution. Resolved that provision may be made in the Bill about expenses of management (and amounts deductible like expenses of management). Report stage first day. New clause 5 agreed to. New clause 13, discussed with new clause 1, agreed to. New clause 2, discussed with new clause 7, negatived on division (209 votes to 281). New clause 4 debated and withdrawn. New clause 8 negatived on division (55 votes to 268). New clause 11 debated and withdrawn. New clause 14 negatived on division (67 votes to 269). Amendment 43 negatived on division (191 votes to 268).
Finance Bill
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
462 c40-133
Session
2006-07
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Finance Bill. As amended in the Committee and in Public Bill Committee. (vote)
Thursday, 7 June 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Thursday, 7 June 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Show all related items (9)
Proceeding contributions
Mark Hoban | 462 c125-7 (Link to this contribution)
It is difficult to understate the mess into which the Government have got themselves on the taxation...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c127-8 (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief. We have covered many of these issues on Second Reading, in the Committee of the wh...
Show all contributions (157)
Speaker | 462 c125 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 41, page 2, line 11, leave ...
John Healey | 462 c128-9 (Link to this contribution)
As the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Julia Goldsworthy) said, we have covered much of the g...
Mark Hoban | 462 c129-30 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a brief debate, which is probably to the advantage of all hon. Members; as the Financi...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c119 (Link to this contribution)
At this early stage in his remarks, will the Chief Secretary confirm that the take-up of family tax ...
Stephen Timms | 462 c119-20 (Link to this contribution)
I can confirm that the take-up of tax credits among the lowest-income families is well above 90 per ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c121-2 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my right hon. Friend for those comments. The thrust of his remarks was that we have not put ...
Theresa Villiers | 462 c122 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman must have misunderstood the point that I made. As I made clear in my speech...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c122 (Link to this contribution)
There clearly are. People will draw their own conclusions from the contributions made in the debate....
Mark Hoban | 462 c125 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment No. 43, page 2, line 9, leave out clause 3.
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c120 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend says that he is in some difficulty because he does not understand the nature of...
Stephen Timms | 462 c120 (Link to this contribution)
The point I was making is that I do not think that there are any practical transitional measures tha...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c121 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to what the right hon. Gentleman is saying about transitional arrangements,...
Theresa Villiers | 462 c112-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a strong point, and I shall come to that issue. If the Government are relyi...
Stephen Timms | 462 c118 (Link to this contribution)
In fact, the analysis does take that into account. I refer the hon. Lady to the slide in the Budget ...
Theresa Villiers | 462 c118 (Link to this contribution)
I understand that Treasury officials acknowledged to the Treasury Committee that their figures were ...
Stephen Timms | 462 c118 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome this debate, and all hon. Members will understand the motivation and thinking behind the n...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c118 (Link to this contribution)
Does that take into account people claiming their entitlement to tax credits? One problem is that so...
Rob Marris | 462 c115-6 (Link to this contribution)
While I do not want to go too far down that path, I agree that there may be difficulties for some pe...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c116-8 (Link to this contribution)
The loyalty of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) is being stretched so far ...
Rob Marris | 462 c115 (Link to this contribution)
We need to put this very important debate in context. The hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Vill...
David Leslie Taylor | 462 c115 (Link to this contribution)
Has my hon. Friend seen the report by the Chartered Institute of Taxation which calls for tax reform...
Stephen Timms | 462 c118 (Link to this contribution)
That depends on the figures to which the hon. Lady is referring. I am not sure which they are, but l...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c109 (Link to this contribution)
That contribution was valuable not only because of the point that was made, but because it gave me a...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c109 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the right hon. Gentleman is expecting a formal answer from the Minister, and I hope that...
Rob Marris | 462 c109-10 (Link to this contribution)
First, I think that my right hon. Friend must deduct pensioners who would gain through increases in ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c111 (Link to this contribution)
At Easter, the hon. Lady could be cast in the role of Pontius Pilate without any difficulties given ...
Theresa Villiers | 462 c111-2 (Link to this contribution)
One of the best changes would be a change of Government. I emphasise that we believe that putting pr...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c112 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Lady for reading into the record the entire list of categories of people who are su...
Robert Smith | 462 c84 (Link to this contribution)
To reinforce the hon. Gentleman’s bus analysis, not only is a bus with few passengers less environme...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c84 (Link to this contribution)
I want to pay two compliments to the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Dann...
Danny Alexander | 462 c83-4 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The purpose of the scheme is to level the playing field...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c83 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has just mentioned people spending money in rural filling stations. The new claus...
Danny Alexander | 462 c82-3 (Link to this contribution)
I think that this scheme would be a great deal easier to administer than the congestion charge, not ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c86 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Financial Secretary for that information.
I am not saying that all these quest...
John Healey | 462 c86 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right: in France, the derogation is leading to an increase in regional rates. ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c85-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman did make that point, but that is not in the proposal that is before us to vote on...
Danny Alexander | 462 c85 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. However, in answer to the right hon. Member for Wokin...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c84-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is correct, and I think that he made that point in the same debate...
James Duddridge | 462 c80 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman repeatedly refers to the highlands and to Scottish constituencies. Would any Engl...
Danny Alexander | 462 c80 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an important point about the impact of high fuel prices on island communities.
...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c80 (Link to this contribution)
The 3 per cent. figure is interesting, because it solves some of the difficulties that we have had p...
Danny Alexander | 462 c80 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. That figure was not put in to limit the measure to part...
James Duddridge | 462 c82 (Link to this contribution)
Knowing what a hassle it is to register for the congestion charge and to pay it on various days, I w...
Danny Alexander | 462 c82 (Link to this contribution)
The new clause is clear on that point. The discount would apply to individuals who had their main re...
Viscount Thurso | 462 c81 (Link to this contribution)
While my hon. Friend was visiting Bonar Bridge in my constituency, did he notice that there were no ...
Danny Alexander | 462 c81 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The scheme would not apply to tourists. There is a good...
Danny Alexander | 462 c81-2 (Link to this contribution)
I did indeed notice that. I hope that the scheme that I am proposing would benefit not only the peop...
David Heath | 462 c88 (Link to this contribution)
Some hon. Members who represent urban areas should get out into the country more and see what life i...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c88 (Link to this contribution)
Had the hon. Gentleman been in the Chamber when my hon. Friend laid out his argument, perhaps he wou...
Rob Marris | 462 c88 (Link to this contribution)
Can the hon. Lady indicate whether she thinks that if the price of fuel went down in rural areas as ...
Alan Reid | 462 c91-2 (Link to this contribution)
We all know that fuel that is sold in remote areas is sold at a much higher price than in urban area...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c89-90 (Link to this contribution)
I have some sympathy with the new clause, not least because I tabled similar amendments in the past ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c88-9 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend’s comments are self-explanatory.
Listening to the debate, and thinking about the imp...
Alan Reid | 462 c92 (Link to this contribution)
In the vast bulk of the country, putting up the price of fuel would encourage people to use more env...
Rob Marris | 462 c92 (Link to this contribution)
I think that I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying about car usage. I realise that the elas...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c86 (Link to this contribution)
I am tempted to reply that when we get a workable solution, rather than three unworkable proposals, ...
David Heath | 462 c86 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s detailed arguments as to why my hon. Friend’s propo...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c87 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) finished slightly more abruptly than I expected him to, Mr...
Speaker | 462 c86 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I am looking for the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Julia Goldsworthy) among a forest...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c87 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that you would call me out of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if I suddenly disappeared down a ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c87 (Link to this contribution)
In so far as is practicable, can the hon. Lady explain why her vehicle excise duty proposal, about w...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c87-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that my hon. Friend has drawn a rather depressing, although wholly accurate, conclusion....
Alistair Carmichael | 462 c87 (Link to this contribution)
If those on the Conservative Front Bench accept that there is a problem but choose not to propose a ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c88 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
We have a practical remedy. One reason why we have the differential...
Speaker | 462 c88 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but her voice fades away if she turns to her colleague...
Mark Hoban | 462 c99 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Judging from the number of Members present, t...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c95 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman state for the record that he would be happy for the Financial Secretary to c...
Alistair Carmichael | 462 c95 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the true magnificence of the Conservatives’ position becomes apparent...
Danny Alexander | 462 c95 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is correct.
Danny Alexander | 462 c95 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the contributions that have been made in the debate. We have heard some positive r...
John Healey | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way to the hon. Lady instead.
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
In some areas of my constituency and the neighbouring constituency average house prices are 30 times...
Mark Hoban | 462 c99 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought that it was important, for the sake of those taking an inter...
Speaker | 462 c99 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that this cannot be a general debate about private equity, despit...
John Healey | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn and the rest of his constituency wish to intervene?
John Healey | 462 c93-4 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know about thanking the Liberals, but I should thank the hon. Gentleman for his detailed de...
Alistair Carmichael | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
I am intrigued by the way that the Financial Secretary compared the cost of fuel in rural areas with...
John Healey | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
No, my right hon. Friend was absolutely right to do so. A renewed Labour Government will deal with t...
Danny Alexander | 462 c94 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.
Alistair Carmichael | 462 c92 (Link to this contribution)
I have explored this very question with one of the local filling station owners in a village near my...
Alan Reid | 462 c92-3 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend. His intervention is very helpful to the argument and demonstrates the point ...
John Healey | 462 c93 (Link to this contribution)
It is the Report stage of the Finance Bill, so it comes as no surprise to hear the Liberals plead fo...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c93 (Link to this contribution)
In all honesty, should not the Financial Secretary thank the Liberals for proposing that he have the...
Speaker | 462 c99 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I have already ruled that this is not a general debate about private equity. The hon. Gentlem...
Mark Hoban | 462 c100-1 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. The right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham called fo...
Vincent Cable | 462 c101-3 (Link to this contribution)
I support new clause 12, which seems helpful. It cannot be wrong to request information about a matt...
Ed Balls | 462 c103-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to respond to the debate on the new clause, and on proposals for a report to Parliament o...
Rob Marris | 462 c104 (Link to this contribution)
Is my hon. Friend saying that the memorandum of understanding of 25 July 2003 was instigated or draw...
Mark Hoban | 462 c107 (Link to this contribution)
I will take no lessons from the Economic Secretary on spin. We have seen quite enough of his handiwo...
John Redwood | 462 c59 (Link to this contribution)
How can the Minister say that the provisions would cause problems with tax avoidance when new clause...
Brooks Newmark | 462 c57 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a valid point, and it follows on from the excellent one made earlier about smal...
John Healey | 462 c57-8 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a useful debate. The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) opened it and made several ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c58 (Link to this contribution)
The Financial Secretary cannot argue that a tax is not retrospective just because it was pre-announc...
John Healey | 462 c58-9 (Link to this contribution)
The provision was not retrospective, but it is true that it applied to tickets booked before as well...
Robert Smith | 462 c55 (Link to this contribution)
At least we were in the same Lobby.
The hon. Gentleman was perhaps too generous to the Government. ...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c55-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) made the case that the precedents published by the Treasur...
Brooks Newmark | 462 c56-7 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak briefly in support of the principle of good practice for retrospective taxation ensh...
John Bercow | 462 c57 (Link to this contribution)
I accept the thrust of my hon. Friend’s remarks, but does he agree that notwithstanding the joys of ...
Christopher Chope | 462 c55 (Link to this contribution)
My recollection is that the Liberal Democrats followed a group of Conservatives, led by me, into the...
Brooks Newmark | 462 c75 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate the Financial Secretary’s comments, but the spirit in which I was trying to make my poi...
John Healey | 462 c75-8 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate that, and even where the hon. Gentleman has been very critical of the Government in the...
David Gauke | 462 c78 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the Financial Secretary that we have had a good debate this afternoon. My hon. Friends ...
Danny Alexander | 462 c79 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause by read a Second time.
The new clause would reduce the burden of hig...
John Redwood | 462 c79 (Link to this contribution)
Will not second home owners and millionaires be eligible for this within the chosen areas?
Danny Alexander | 462 c79-80 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman raises an important question about the definitions, to which I will come, b...
Alan Reid | 462 c80 (Link to this contribution)
If my hon. Friend were to take a example from small islands, he would find a far greater differentia...
James Duddridge | 462 c72 (Link to this contribution)
I thought that I had left VAT returns behind when I moved from business to politics, although as the...
Brooks Newmark | 462 c72-4 (Link to this contribution)
When the issue of timely VAT repayment was raised in Committee in the context of MTIC fraud, the Fin...
John Healey | 462 c74-5 (Link to this contribution)
We have had yet another good debate on the challenges facing HMRC and the Government in tackling som...
David Gauke | 462 c66-7 (Link to this contribution)
Before I deal with new clause 4, let me say a few words about Government amendment No. 2 and return ...
John Redwood | 462 c67 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making a good case. Could he give me some idea of the length of time for which he ...
David Gauke | 462 c65 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c71 (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief, because the hon. Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauke) outlined very cle...
John Redwood | 462 c71-2 (Link to this contribution)
Business is looking for greater speed and greater co-operation from all parts of Government, and I a...
David Gauke | 462 c67-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. I will deal with some of these points in more detail in a few...
Philip Dunne | 462 c69-70 (Link to this contribution)
I support the powerful case made by my hon. Friend the Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauk...
John Healey | 462 c60-1 (Link to this contribution)
If the right hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will come on to the sort of problems that would be ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c61 (Link to this contribution)
The debate has demonstrated the widespread concern throughout the House about creeping retrospection...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c46 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 462 c46 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: No. (a), line 2, leave out ‘(a)’.
No. (b)...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
It is interesting to see that the new consensus between the two parties is so broad that it extends ...
John Healey | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the welcome from both Opposition spokespeople. May I remind the hon. Member for South-West...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c50-1 (Link to this contribution)
I was expecting more, but the consensus appears to have broken down at an early stage in the afterno...
Christopher Chope | 462 c51-2 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) for his open and transparent discussion ...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 462 c46-50 (Link to this contribution)
We have been proceeding so far on the amiable basis of consensus. I hope that we can go further and ...
James Duddridge | 462 c52 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend knows that we have slightly different views on environmental taxes, but has he noted ...
Christopher Chope | 462 c52 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is absolutely right. No one is more cynical about green taxes than I am. Even if we ac...
Julia Goldsworthy | 462 c52 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is particularly unfortunate that this whole problem has flared...
John Healey | 462 c41-2 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
New clause 5 introduces a targeted anti-avoid...
Mark Hoban | 462 c43 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Financial Secretary for his explanation of the circumstances that lie behind the new cla...
John Healey | 462 c43 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for the measured way in which he at least implied that he and his party w...
John Healey | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 1—Amendment of Provisional Collection of Taxes...
David Gauke | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
I do not intend to detain the House and impede the speedy progress that we have achieved so far. I a...
John Redwood | 462 c53-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am a company director and have listed my interests in the Register of Members’ Interests.
For my ...
Christopher Chope | 462 c53 (Link to this contribution)
The point of introducing the hon. Lady’s argument was that I have heard the Minister speak on this s...
Speaker | 462 c52 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I have allowed the hon. Gentleman some latitude, but I must now advise him to concentrate his...
Christopher Chope | 462 c52 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that the Government made that admission. It was a candid admission, and my right hon. and l...
Robert Smith | 462 c55 (Link to this contribution)
I support new clause 2 because the principle that it espouses of not having retrospective taxation i...
John Redwood | 462 c54-5 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right and makes an important part of my case. The people I have in mind cannot hir...
John Bercow | 462 c54 (Link to this contribution)
May I put the proposition to my right hon. Friend that it is not only true that there is considerabl...
Speaker | 462 c66 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment No. 2.
Stephen Timms | 462 c121 (Link to this contribution)
Information has already been published. I point the hon. Lady to the IFS analysis for the sort of de...
Viscount Thurso | 462 c90-1 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Danny Ale...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c108-9 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I was a few minutes late because I went to ch...
Theresa Villiers | 462 c110-1 (Link to this contribution)
The Opposition welcome the opportunity to debate the impact of tax changes on different income decil...
Stewart Hosie | 462 c82 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has referred to both the owner and the vehicle. Will he clarify to which one the ...
Danny Alexander | 462 c95-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman hangs his argument on that constitutional point, but on several occasions, in rel...
John Healey | 462 c94-5 (Link to this contribution)
I shall move on.
It is important to be clear about what would not be guaranteed under the proposals...
Ed Balls | 462 c105-7 (Link to this contribution)
Yes. There is no controversy about that. In those Finance Bill debates, concern was expressed that t...
Helen Goodman | 462 c50 (Link to this contribution)
I am particularly pleased to discuss new clause 2, because I spoke in the debate about air passenger...
John Healey | 462 c44 (Link to this contribution)
We are making very good progress. No doubt, that will not last, but let us enjoy it while we can. Pe...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c109 (Link to this contribution)
I will happily give way to my hon. Friend, which will allow me to read the next paragraph.
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 462 c110 (Link to this contribution)
I willingly add that fourth group who will lose out because of the measure.
The second paragraph of...
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