UK Parliament / Open data

Data Protection and Digital Information Bill

Lords committee stage sixth day. Clauses 109 to 111 agreed to. Clause 112, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 113 to 115 agreed to. Clause 116, as amended, agreed to. Clause 117 agreed to. Schedule 10 agreed to. Clauses 118 and 119 agreed to. Clause 120, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 121 to 124 agreed to. New clause agreed to. Clauses 125 to 128 agreed to. Schedule 11 under consideration.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
837 cc421-490GC 
Session
2023-24
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Data Protection and Digital Information Bill 2022-23 to 2023-24. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 6 December 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0486
Wednesday, 8 May 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0495
Tuesday, 14 May 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Lucas | 837 c421GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lucas

199: Clause 109, page 133, line 21, leave out “(2D)” and insert “...

Lord Lucas | 837 cc421-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 199, I will also speak to the other amendments in this group. In so...


Show all contributions (134)
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 837 c422GC (Link to this contribution)

My apologies to the noble Lord but his microphone does not seem to be working. I wonder whether h...

Lord Lucas | 837 c422GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry. I assumed that my microphone was on.

Baroness Garden of Frognal | 837 c422GC (Link to this contribution)

It is but I do not think it is working. I do not know whether anybody else is having problems wit...

Lord Lucas | 837 c422GC (Link to this contribution)

Okay. It does not quite reach me up here; I could sit down if that would be helpful.

Lord Lucas | 837 cc422-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I will try to line up with it better. Amendments 202 to 205 flag concerns with proposed new Regul...

Viscount Chandos | 837 c423GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord L...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 cc424-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 109 makes changes to the regulations relating to the use of cookies, which, on t...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc425-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not know how unusual this is, but we are on the same page across both sides of the...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 837 cc426-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the Committee will indulge me, I was a little late arriving for the introduction to ...

Lord Harlech | 837 cc427-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to make my first foray at the Dispatch Box on this Bill in what has be...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I am interested in the Minister’s point about the flexibility the Government see in this clause, ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister used the expression “when the evidence emerges”, as did the noble Viscount, Lord Cam...

Lord Harlech | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank both noble Lords for their interventions. On the point from the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister write and unpack exactly what the balance of opinion was? We are talking about ...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

In this tripartite geography that the noble Lord described, the power—

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

It is a trifecta, actually—that is a betting term.

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not a gambling man. It is an interesting term. The Minister is suggesting that power rests e...

Lord Harlech | 837 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for those further points requesting clarification. On how we have come to thi...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is all about the relative importance and the weighting. Maybe that is a good illustr...

Lord Harlech | 837 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble Lord’s point. We are working with industry and will continue to do so. For the b...

Lord Lucas | 837 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

Might I also hope for the meeting that I referred to?

Lord Harlech | 837 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend makes a good point. I can promise all Members that there will be themat...

Lord Lucas | 837 cc430-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for that assurance from my noble friend.

On the first amendments, c...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc431-2GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

206: Clause 112, page 139, line 13, at end insert—

“(...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c432GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

208: After Clause 112, insert the following new Clause—

...
Lord Leong | 837 cc432-3GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Leong

208A: After Clause 112, insert the following new Clause—

“P...

Lord Leong | 837 cc433-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving this amendment, I will also speak to the other amendments in this group in th...

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate | 837 cc434-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 208A. I declare my interest as a solicitor but not one who has been...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc435-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 208A. I am a recovering solicitor. Many moons ago, I gave public af...

Lord Evans of Rainow | 837 c436GC (Link to this contribution)

I have texted the noble Baroness asking her to return as soon as possible so that she can listen ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c436GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to carry on much longer. I know that that will be a grave disappointment but it ma...

Lord Harlech | 837 cc436-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for tabling Amendment 208A and th...

Lord Leong | 837 c437GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken, especially the noble Lords, Lord Kirkhope and ...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c437GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch

209: Clause 113, page 139, line 37, leave out “...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 cc437-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 209, I will also speak to Amendment 210, and I thank the noble Lord...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc438-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, tracking the provenance of Clause 113 has been a very interesting exercise. If we think...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c439GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for Amendments 209 and 210, which would amend C...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps the Minister could elucidate exactly what is meant by “supporting the party’s o...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

I suppose it would depend on the petition and who was raising it. If it were a petition raised or...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

So what the Minister is saying is that the solicitor, if you like, who is asking you to sign this...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. Many such petitions are of course initiated by charitable organisations or other not-for-...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 cc440-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for digging and delving into the background...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c441GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

212: Clause 116, page 145, line 14, leave out “with the day...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c442GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

216: Clause 120, page 151, line 25, leave out “124” and ins...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c442GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

217: After Clause 124, insert the following new Clause—

...
Baroness Kidron | 837 cc443-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also submit that Schedule 11 should not stand part of the Bill. I note the amendments...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 837 cc445-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure and a privilege to support that tour de force from the noble Baroness,...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c447GC (Link to this contribution)

What is the difference between the trawl in looking at people who are seeking to avoid tax, which...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 837 c447GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. It is not just my view. It was put very well by the noble Ba...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c447GC (Link to this contribution)

When the noble Baroness says, “more targeted”, is what way are they more targeted? That is what I...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c447GC (Link to this contribution)

They relate to individual people by name, not whole sweeps of people who have done nothing wrong ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 837 cc447-8GC (Link to this contribution)

What I am advocating to the Committee is that, in terms of our approach in this country to everyo...

Lord Sikka | 837 cc448-451GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will address, first, the exclusion of Clause 128 and, secondly, Amendment 219 in my n...

Lord Kamall | 837 cc451-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak in favour of the amendment to which I have added my name, with other noble...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 cc452-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Kamall. Although we probably come...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 cc455-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was also too late to put my name to these stand part notices for Clause 128 and Sched...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 837 cc457-8GC (Link to this contribution)

Most of what needed to be said has been said excellently and clearly by the other speakers. I hav...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 cc459-460GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak as someone who was a Minister at the Department for Work and Pensions back in 2...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness mentioned lobby groups that say the clause is disproportionate. The Informatio...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

No. With respect, I am talking about Justice, which I think referenced 40 organisations. There wa...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 837 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

The suggestion was made that this was carefully thought out and part of a long-term plan. Can the...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c460GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sure my noble friend the Minister can talk about the particular timing of why it went into t...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry; I have spent a lot of time listening to others, and a lot of it has been slightly int...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, but could she point out where those restrictions actually ar...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

It is important that my noble friend answers that question. The point is that if we find—I am sor...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc461-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I note that the DWP has been passed a parcel by the Department for Science, Innovation ...

Baroness Sherlock | 837 cc464-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, and my noble friend Lord Sikka for introducing...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc466-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all those who have spoken today. I have been made well aware of the strong view...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for interrupting, but can the Minister show us in the Bill where those restrictions o...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

That is a fair challenge and I will certainly be coming on to that. I have in my speech some rema...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but will he be coming on to explain what these signals are?...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc469-471GC (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord will allow me, I would like to make some progress and I hope that this will com...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

It is also worth pointing out that the paragraph I quoted follows immediately on that. That is th...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am aware of that. I think the noble Lord was alluding to the point about proportionality. ...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

When might we see the code of practice? It would be extremely helpful to see it before Report, as...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

I will need to get back to the noble Lord on that, but perhaps can reassure him that it is alread...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

Can we see the draft code of practice before Report?

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc471-3GC (Link to this contribution)

That is part of the answer that I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, which I think is a fair poin...

Lord Sikka | 837 c472GC (Link to this contribution)

I would be convinced about the Government’s intentions, and would not press this amendment at the...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc474-5GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord has set me quite a challenge at the Dispatch Box. It is out of scope of today’s se...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

I may have missed something, but can I just check that the Minister will deal with the matter of ...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely; I am keen to make sure that I answer on that. It may be possible to do so in the next...

Lord Sikka | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

A number of pensioner groups are watching these proceedings. I have received some messages. They ...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely; the noble Lord will know that I have not managed to answer all the questions. I have ...

Baroness Buscombe | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend very much for all the explanation that he has given thus far. I just want...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

Is it not one of the dangers that this is a deterrent to people claiming these benefits?

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

I have a response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, about signals. The sig...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc475-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Committee will be grateful to hear, I hope, that I will not try to capture such a r...

Baroness Sherlock | 837 c476GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Sherlock

220: Schedule 11, page 245, line 1, leave out from “only” ...

Baroness Sherlock | 837 cc476-480GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will also speak to the other amendments in my name, which are designed to dig further...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 c480GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I intervene very briefly. I thank my noble friend who, with her usual forensic clarity,...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c480GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in relation to the excellent speech of the noble Baroness, she mentioned “personal” acc...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 837 c480GC (Link to this contribution)

Because of the way the amendments are grouped, I have the opportunity to repeat my questions. The...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 837 cc480-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I must begin by joining the general applause for the characteristic tour de force from ...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c481GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was not intending to speak on this group, but another question occurs to me. We have ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c481GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would of course much prefer Clause 128 not to stand part, but we were just privileged...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc482-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the debate on this group has focused largely on the amendments from the noble Baroness,...

Baroness Sherlock | 837 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

Rather than asking all my questions at the end—I only have four—I will try to get answers as we g...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

The Government do wish to have that power. I should make it clear that an appointee could be a cl...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

There were a number of questions on the other group that related specifically to people’s willing...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. I may be able to give her further reassurances in a l...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

If I may pursue this, I am not sure I heard the Minister’s answer to the question of the noble Ba...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure I agree with that. I hope I can reassure the noble Baroness, as I tried to on the p...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

I want to be absolutely clear on this point, because I am still not totally sure I am—I raised th...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

This is part of the filtering discussions that are already taking place at the moment.

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

Under the terms of the Bill, would this allow that to be caught?

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes it would. Landlords are in scope. We will filter this through in terms of the business as usu...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

Given that, has the department done an assessment of the likely impact on landlords being willing...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

I clearly cannot go far enough today, but, because this is important and we are in Committee, I n...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

It is precisely as the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, said on the last group—this is a massive net....

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not agree with that. We have done quite a lot of business together across the Chamber. That ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but, throughout these two groups, he has, in a sen...

Lord Sikka | 837 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I ask the Minister for clarification. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked about th...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 837 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

I will add to that the issue of overseas bank accounts. I cannot see how the British Government c...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

How many accounts of “signalling” already exist in the current backlog in the business-as-usual v...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c485GC (Link to this contribution)

I will add to the Minister’s grief. He has talked a number of times about the limited information...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

Right. A number of questions have been asked. I am not sure that I can give too much more clarity...

Lord Vaux of Harrowden | 837 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

This is the problem. We have been talking about limited information, a limited nature and the lim...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

That point is very much noted. I will certainly take it back. Clearly, we need to provide greater...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 837 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

Pension benefits other than pension credit have eligibility criteria attached, but I do not know ...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

The example that the noble Lord will be aware of links to what the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, was sa...

Lord Davies of Brixton | 837 c487GC (Link to this contribution)

Presumably the DWP already knows the address of the bank account to which an overseas pension is ...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c487GC (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that it needs to have these powers to be able to cover the ground properly. I...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 837 c487GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister moves on, I asked specifically about child benefit. Could he please answer th...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c487GC (Link to this contribution)

I know that I said earlier that child benefit was not included. I will clarify that child benefit...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 cc487-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I will finish this answer, if I may. The DWP personal information charter lists banks and financi...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

Will people with power of attorney over the account of someone who receives a benefit also be cau...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 837 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

That is understood. I know that I need to provide further reassurances. Attorneys are included fo...

Baroness Sherlock | 837 cc488-490GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for taking the time to try to answer the questions. I know that we...

Notes
Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland legislative consent sought.
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