My Lords, I must begin by joining the general applause for the characteristic tour de force from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. I was having a flashback because it was the noble Baroness in debate on what is now the
Pension Schemes Act 2021 who taught me how to cope with Committee stage very kindly a long time ago —and we are very used to that. I rise briefly to address this group, but I start by saying in relation to the last group that I entirely agree with the proposition that Clause 128 should not stand part: the spying clause should not be part of the Bill.
I have a couple of points to make on the amendments in this group, one of which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, on the last group and is about protecting the Government from themselves. The amendments put down by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, are probing. However, if we were to restrict the Government’s use of these powers, they might end up at a vaguely manageable scale. It is worth raising that point when we look at these groups.
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I declare my position on the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Frozen British Pensions because, as I was listening to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, I was thinking about pensioners who may spend lots of time abroad, visiting the grandchildren or whatever, as the noble Baroness said. They often have foreign bank accounts; where do they fit within this? What will the UK Government do about the many challenger start-up banks that we have now, which operate in multiple currencies across multiple jurisdictions? How far can the Government go or do they want to go with foreign or foreign-linked money, or more complex banks than your simple current account here in the UK?
I stress the important point made by the noble Baroness with Amendment 235; the Government need far more explanation of what they intend than just this huge blanket clause, which is sitting there apparently allowing them to probe into pretty much anything that they want to.
The Minister, the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, quoted a survey from 2023 on the public’s views of these powers. I point out that, as the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, said on the last group, we have recently heard a great deal about how recipients of carer’s allowance have been absolutely hammered by its cliff-edge nature and the way that the DWP has been chasing them. I suggest to the Minister that, after all those revelations, public views might have changed quite a lot.