UK Parliament / Open data

Pedicabs (London) Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 11 December 2023, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Davies of Gower. The answering member was Lord Liddle.
Lords committee stage. Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. Clause 5, as amended, agreed to. Clause 6 agreed to. Clause 7, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 8 to 10 agreed to. Bill reported from Grand Committee with amendments (HL Bill 35).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
834 cc209-254GC 
Session
2023-24
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Pedicabs (London) Bill (HL) 2023-24
Wednesday, 8 November 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Pedicabs (London) Bill (HL) 2023-24. As amended in Grand Committee
Monday, 11 December 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0017
Tuesday, 9 January 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Berkeley | 834 c209GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 2, leave out “Transport for London” ...

Lord Berkeley | 834 cc209-210GC (Link to this contribution)

This is a long group of amendments but, in my case, they all say the same thing, which is probabl...


Show all contributions (88)
Lord Leigh of Hurley | 834 c210GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is attached to two amendments in this group. Amendment 2 is a probing amendment...

Baroness Randerson | 834 cc210-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my contribution to this group of amendments is in having given notice of my intention t...

Lord Moylan | 834 cc211-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this exciting ideological divide I find myself, curiously, much on the same side as ...

Lord Borwick | 834 cc212-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declared my interests in full at Second Reading. I declare them again, only as they a...

Lord Liddle | 834 c213GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I find myself, in my position speaking for the Opposition, in favour of devolution on t...

Baroness Randerson | 834 c213GC (Link to this contribution)

I did not—at least, I did not intend to imply that.

Lord Liddle | 834 c213GC (Link to this contribution)

In that case, I apologise, but I agree completely with what the noble Baroness said. I disagree w...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc213-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords’ consideration of the Bill and very much welcome the scru...

Lord Liddle | 834 c215GC (Link to this contribution)

The only real justification the Minister offered for Parliament retaining this degree of control ...

Lord Moylan | 834 c215GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it might be helpful if I briefly ask my noble friend a question. As I understand it, st...

Baroness Randerson | 834 c215GC (Link to this contribution)

In the interests of efficiency, before the Minister replies, I will get in a third intervention b...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc215-6GC (Link to this contribution)

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, I can only repeat that convention dictates that only Mi...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all Members of the Committee who have spoken to this group of amendmen...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 834 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Anelay of St Johns

3: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, after “passengers” ...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 834 cc216-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 3, I shall also speak to Amendment 4 in my name. The objective of b...

Lord Berkeley | 834 cc218-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I warmly support these amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St ...

Baroness Randerson | 834 c219GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a changing scenario. As the vehicles change slightly in how they are powered an...

Lord Liddle | 834 c219GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is our earnest hope that the Government listen carefully to the common sense of the ...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc219-220GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this second group of amendments focuses on the definition of a pedicab. I will open my ...

Lord Liddle | 834 c220GC (Link to this contribution)

I am rather thrown by what the Minister said at the end of his remarks, which implied that he tho...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c221GC (Link to this contribution)

For clarification, the Bill’s provision might feasibly capture instances where there is a formal ...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c221GC (Link to this contribution)

What is wrong with the amendment suggested by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, to remove the word...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c221GC (Link to this contribution)

“Hire or reward” is a recognised legal term in taxi and private hire vehicle regulations. The Bil...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 834 cc221-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have supported my attempt to clarify matters. Having s...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c222GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

7: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, leave out “whoever it considers ...

Lord Berkeley | 834 cc222-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are on to the third group and I will speak to Amendments 7 and 9 in my name. To some...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 834 cc223-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tabled a stand part notice in this group. First, I will support my noble friend ...

Lord Storey | 834 c225GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, I apologise for not being present at Second Reading.

I have added my name ...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 834 cc225-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 12, which seeks to give TfL some help and guidance. In my ...

Viscount Goschen | 834 c226GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak only to pick up the point that my noble friend Lord Leigh made a moment ago on ...

Lord Foster of Bath | 834 cc226-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I back up the call from the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, to try to persuade the Government to...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 834 cc227-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the Committee knows, I am supportive of this Bill because it brings in provision for...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 834 c228GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, by keeping on extending the trials, the Government are in effect implicitly making e-sc...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 834 c228GC (Link to this contribution)

I agree. Their legal use is being made possible by stealth, basically. That is why people continu...

Lord Berkeley | 834 cc228-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this little debate that we are having, in particular the comments made by the...

Baroness Randerson | 834 cc229-230GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very significant debate. My contribution to this group is Amendment 48,...

Lord Liddle | 834 c230GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I get on to the points in this group on e-scooters and e-bikes, including the cl...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc230-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this third group of amendments has covered a range of policy matters. I will again ende...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c231GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister said that they operate in London—what is the definition of London? I met some people...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc231-2GC (Link to this contribution)

I venture to suggest to the noble Lord that this is a matter for Transport for London when it for...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 834 c232GC (Link to this contribution)

That being the case, is there any instruction, guidance or request that the Government can make o...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c232GC (Link to this contribution)

It is a matter for the police to administer in terms of any offences that may be caused, but I ta...

Lord Liddle | 834 c232GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentioned a forthcoming consultation on e-scooters. I realise that this is a difficu...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc232-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the strength of feeling. I will certainly ensure that we write with any information ...

Lord Liddle | 834 c233GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for forgetting to mention that amendment in my speech. What made us put it forward is...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc233-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand where the noble Lord is coming from but I am afraid that it does not alter my respon...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c234GC (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 47 has nothing to do with e-bikes or e-scooters; it is about power-assisted pedicabs. I...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc234-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble Lord’s point; I will have to come back to him in writing on that.

I turn t...

Viscount Goschen | 834 c235GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when the Minister comes to address Amendment 47 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Ber...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c235GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for not addressing that but I will ensure that it is addressed in letter form.

Lord Berkeley | 834 c235GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have had a wide-ranging debate on this group of amendments. I am sure that we all ha...

Baroness Randerson | 834 c235GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Randerson

11: Clause 2, page 1, line 18, leave out subsection (2)

Baroness Randerson | 834 cc235-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 11 is in my name. I want to preface my remarks by making it absolutely clear ...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 834 c237GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendments 17 and 18, in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady ...

Lord Foster of Bath | 834 cc237-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will pursue some of the issues I raised in the debate on a previous group of amendmen...

Viscount Goschen | 834 c239GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I lend my support to Amendment 17 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, an...

Lord Strathcarron | 834 cc239-240GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendments 17 and 18 about noise, but I do not think that there...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 834 cc240-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I added my name to Amendment 18, which I am speaking to in the absence of my noble frie...

Lord Liddle | 834 c241GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, a great diversity of points has been raised on this group of amendments, most of which ...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c241GC (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend leaves that point, can I ask him whether he would like to see the same rul...

Lord Liddle | 834 c241GC (Link to this contribution)

In principle, I personally do not see why not.

Lord Tunnicliffe | 834 c241GC (Link to this contribution)

It is not necessarily our policy though.

Lord Liddle | 834 cc241-2GC (Link to this contribution)

Frankly, I have no idea what our policy is on this subject, but I am personally in favour of char...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c242GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this fourth group covers operational matters. I will now address each amendment in the ...

Baroness Stowell of Beeston | 834 c242GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am hugely grateful to my noble friend for what he just said and welcome it very much....

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc242-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend raises a very valid point and something that we will take into account.

Ame...

Baroness Randerson | 834 c245GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his detailed response. We have had plenty of detail, which we can think ...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c245GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

28: Clause 2, page 2, line 34, leave out subsection (10)

Lord Berkeley | 834 cc245-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall be brief. Amendment 28 in my name is a probing amendment because I do not under...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 834 cc246-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first chance I have had to speak in this debate as I was involved in other ...

Viscount Goschen | 834 c248GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, clearly the enforcement of the provisions of the Bill and the consequent regulations, h...

Lord Liddle | 834 cc248-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will follow up on the points about enforcement and penalties. I hear very much what t...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc249-250GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we come to the final group of amendments, focusing on enforcement. Amendment 28, in the...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c250GC (Link to this contribution)

I hear what the Minister says about the impounding of pedicabs and things like that. It may be qu...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 cc250-1GC (Link to this contribution)

I hear what the noble Lord says, but I am not sure that it should be proportionate. If he is conc...

Lord Liddle | 834 c251GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, I thank him for his comprehensive response, which we can examine...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c251GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the noble Lord’s concern. It is something that we will discuss back in the departmen...

Lord Berkeley | 834 c251GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken on this fifth group of amendments. We have had s...

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c252GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Davies of Gower

43: Clause 5, page 4, line 19, at end insert “(and for ...

Lord Liddle | 834 c252GC (Link to this contribution)

We wish to oppose this amendment.

Lord Tunnicliffe | 834 c252GC (Link to this contribution)

At page 143, paragraph 8.111 of the Companion says:

“The proceedings and forms of words for...

Viscount Colville of Culross | 834 c252GC (Link to this contribution)

Can we adjourn the Committee for a moment, please?

7.02 pm

Lord Davies of Gower | 834 c253GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Davies of Gower

50: Clause 7, page 5, line 2, at end insert—

““tr...

Back to top