UK Parliament / Open data

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 31 October 2022, in the House of Lords, led by Earl Howe. The answering members were Baroness Thornton and Lord Collins of Highbury.
Lords committee stage first day. Clause 1 under consideration.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
825 cc1-56GC 
Session
2022-23
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c1GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Smith of Newnham

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, after “speech” inser...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 cc1-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 1 and other amendments in the name of my noble friend Lord...


Show all contributions (94)
Lord Hope of Craighead | 825 cc2-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 2, which is in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Trie...

Lord Triesman | 825 cc3-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start with my declaration of interests: I still hold academic posts at Cambridge, and...

Lord Moylan | 825 cc5-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the two amendments in my name in this group, Amendments 13 and 28. In d...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 825 cc7-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord. In this very short but interesting deb...

Lord Sandhurst | 825 cc8-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 30. I should first apologise for not speaking at Second Readi...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 825 cc9-10GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 36 in my name. I apologise for not speaking at Second Readin...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 825 cc10-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendments 13 and 28, which I have put my name to. In general, I support any ...

Lord Mann | 825 cc11-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I begin by saying that, although I do not know how many others here have, I have on more than one...

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 825 cc13-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as the former warden of Wadham College, Oxford, and as an honorar...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 825 cc14-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did speak at Second Reading, so I really am not going to make a Second Reading speech...

Lord Moylan | 825 c16GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it sounds to me that the noble Baroness is making the case for why Article 10 is insuff...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 825 c16GC (Link to this contribution)

Inasmuch as there is a limit to what any legislation can do without the resources and culture, cl...

Lord Moylan | 825 c16GC (Link to this contribution)

With respect, I have not made a case against human rights. The definition I propose does not impi...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 825 c16GC (Link to this contribution)

I beg the noble Lord’s pardon. I take the point, and I tried to make it clear that I know that he...

Lord Grabiner | 825 cc16-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also apologise for not having participated at Second Reading. I have a perfectly exce...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c18GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to speak briefly in my own right, as opposed to speaking for my noble friend Lor...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 825 cc18-20GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a fascinating debate, and one we could continue for some time, because it...

Earl Howe | 825 cc20-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have begun our debates in Grand Committee with a group of amendments all of which, i...

Lord Grabiner | 825 c22GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt, but the Minister said a couple of times that subsection (11) is a defini...

Earl Howe | 825 cc22-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble Lord’s point entirely. I think that I said that the definition I referred to was...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 825 c23GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Earl not think that that is a good example of where good practice can be adopted n...

Earl Howe | 825 c23GC (Link to this contribution)

We certainly hope that this will gain traction. I agree that in most circumstances it is better t...

Lord Moylan | 825 c23GC (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend wish to expand at all on my Amendment 13 about “reasonably practicable”? The...

Earl Howe | 825 cc23-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the Committee. I know that I have been speaking for a long time, but this is the v...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c24GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, clearly, I have not quite been mandated by my noble friend to accept the noble Earl’s a...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c24GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Smith of Newnham

4: Clause 1, page 1, leave out line 14

Membe...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 cc24-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again I am moving an amendment on behalf of my noble friend Lord Wallace. It might appe...

Lord Triesman | 825 cc26-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 22. One of the things that I have inevitably observed over...

Lord Sandhurst | 825 cc27-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will address Amendment 26 and the consequential Amendment 71, which we need not look ...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 825 cc28-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, much has been said that I agree with. I shall speak to Amendment 26, to which I put my ...

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 825 c29GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thought it axiomatic that references to academic staff in the Bill included all acade...

Lord Grabiner | 825 cc29-30GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, is this not another example of why it would be helpful to have a definition provision i...

Lord Stevens of Birmingham | 825 c30GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, picking up that last point, I support the amendments in this group that expand the defi...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 825 c30GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if a science department employs people who do not believe in science, that does not see...

Lord Stevens of Birmingham | 825 c30GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is making precisely the point I was seeking to draw out. As we discussed at Se...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 825 cc31-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first I need to apologise—I forgot to declare my interests in the debate on the previou...

Baroness Thornton | 825 cc32-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a very important small group of amendments. It seems to me that the previous gr...

Earl Howe | 825 c33GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this second group of amendments relates to members and academics, as covered by the Bil...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c33GC (Link to this contribution)

It appears, according to Clause 2, that colleges are constituent parts of universities and are th...

Earl Howe | 825 c34GC (Link to this contribution)

I would be happy to take this away and investigate. Once I have done so, I would be happy to writ...

Lord Triesman | 825 c34GC (Link to this contribution)

I would be grateful for that letter as well. I suggest to the noble Earl that one of my experienc...

Earl Howe | 825 c34GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I wanted just to cover another question that the noble Baroness ...

Lord Mann | 825 c34GC (Link to this contribution)

Under the Bill as currently worded, would the emeritus professor at Sussex University—who was not...

Earl Howe | 825 c34GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not think it is for the Bill—or indeed the Government—to specify an answer to that question ...

Lord Mann | 825 c35GC (Link to this contribution)

So, is the Minister clarifying that there is nothing in the Bill that would prohibit the universi...

Earl Howe | 825 c35GC (Link to this contribution)

Exactly right.

I was making the point that a provider in this context is an employer and th...

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 825 c35GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Earl nevertheless recognise that this is one of the weaknesses in the Bill that is...

Earl Howe | 825 c35GC (Link to this contribution)

With great respect to the noble Lord, I challenge any university to point to a provision in the B...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 825 c35GC (Link to this contribution)

I am really quite surprised, because I hoped that the noble Earl was going to respond to my quest...

Earl Howe | 825 c36GC (Link to this contribution)

We always have to come back to what the Bill specifies that a university should do, which is to t...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c36GC (Link to this contribution)

I think that, although I shall withdraw this amendment, we are likely to have a form of amendment...

Lord Stevens of Birmingham | 825 c36GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stevens of Birmingham

5: Clause 1, page 1, line 17, leave out “securing...

Lord Stevens of Birmingham | 825 c37GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Willetts, sends his apologies for an unforeseen family emergency, so I will ...

Lord Mann | 825 cc37-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 6 is on the same principle: unintended consequences. The Government would ...

Bishop of Coventry | 825 cc38-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendments 5 to 7 in particular. I shall follow on from the comments of the n...

Lord Grabiner | 825 c39GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, on the point we have just been discussing, is this not a very good example of the kind ...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c39GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to yet another amendment from my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire. I...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 825 c40GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, very briefly, and to speak t...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 825 cc40-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome these amendments, because they probe the practical implications of these clau...

Earl Howe | 825 cc41-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the group of amendments to Clauses 1 and 3 tabled in the name of my noble friend Lord W...

Lord Triesman | 825 c42GC (Link to this contribution)

I want to go back to the noble Earl’s point on security costs. I would like to understand a littl...

Earl Howe | 825 cc42-3GC (Link to this contribution)

Amendments 24 and 43, spoken to by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, exactly address that set of is...

Lord Triesman | 825 c43GC (Link to this contribution)

When the police decide to intervene, it is often not because a host organisation decides that the...

Earl Howe | 825 c43GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure I accept the noble Lord’s argument. If an event is properly planned—which it should...

Lord Grabiner | 825 c43GC (Link to this contribution)

If I may respectfully say so, that is a terribly important point. It is obviously critical that p...

Earl Howe | 825 c44GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord; I will certainly take that point away and make sure that it...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c44GC (Link to this contribution)

Following on from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Grabiner, could the Minister clarify how...

Earl Howe | 825 c44GC (Link to this contribution)

We are coming later on to a group of amendments that could well encompass the noble Baroness’s qu...

Lord Mann | 825 c45GC (Link to this contribution)

Tabled by

Lord Mann

6: Clause 1, page 1, line 18, leave out first “any”

Lord Mann | 825 c45GC (Link to this contribution)

In not moving the amendment, I just say to the Government that sometimes, in government and polit...

Lord Sandhurst | 825 c45GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sandhurst

12: Clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 7 and 8 and insert—

...
Lord Sandhurst | 825 cc45-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the importance of this amendment is to put the duties towards academic freedom on a rat...

Lord Grabiner | 825 c46GC (Link to this contribution)

Looking at proposed new subsection 5(a)(ii), I do not really understand why the noble Lord wishes...

Lord Sandhurst | 825 c46GC (Link to this contribution)

What we are concerned with in particular is people losing their employment, but I am happy to go ...

Lord Triesman | 825 cc46-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to introduce Amendment 14. It touches on the kinds of concerns that the noble Lo...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 825 cc48-50GC (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to Amendment 17 from the noble Lord, Lord Strathcarron, to which I have put my name...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 825 c50GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise very briefly, because I think Amendment 14, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord ...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c50GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think my noble friend Lord Wallace’s amendments here speak directly to some of the po...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c51GC (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, Amendment 15. This just demonstrates that the profession I need to go to is my optician, w...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 825 cc51-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, around Amendment 15. I was quite ...

Baroness Smith of Newnham | 825 c52GC (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, it is me again, but this is me as myself. Can the noble Lord explain why it is different f...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 825 c52GC (Link to this contribution)

I think there is a marketplace in ideas—maybe I am not answering the noble Baroness’s question as...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 825 cc52-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the Committee because I was unable to be here for Second Reading, so I come a litt...

Baroness Fox of Buckley | 825 cc53-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I completely understand the noble Baroness’s point about terms and conditions. That is perfectly ...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 825 c54GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall just deal with that. I am aware of very vigorous debate at Cambridge University...

Lord Moylan | 825 cc54-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak briefly in support of the noble Baronesses, Lady Fox of Buckley and Lady ...

Baroness Garden of Frognal | 825 c55GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 15 and 16 were probing amendments, so I do not think my noble friend Lord Wa...

Earl of Leicester | 825 c55GC (Link to this contribution)

First, I apologise for not attending Second Reading; I could not be here. I shall speak very brie...

Lord Strathcarron | 825 c56GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to my Amendments 17, 18, 19 and 21. We have already debated Amendment 17 at som...

Baroness Thornton | 825 c56GC (Link to this contribution)

I briefly say that I think the noble Earl has three things he needs to address in this group of a...

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