Investigatory Powers Bill

The Minister now has a second opportunity to practise his oratory.

As you know, Mr Speaker, practice makes perfect, and we have two days to perfect all we do and sa...

My right hon. Friend is being ever so slightly modest in relation to new clause 5, which is aimed...

It is true that such concerns have been expressed. Indeed, as we debate the Bill in further detai...

I realise that the Bill is complex, but could I ask my right hon. Friend—not during today’s debat...

My right hon. and learned Friend has made the point about incomprehensibility previously. Indeed,...

indicated dissent.

The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) shakes his head, but given that the...

I thank all Members who have so far been involved in the scrutiny of the Bill, both in its early ...

I appreciate all that my Front-Bench team has done and is trying to do to minimise the harm, as I...

That intervention gives me the chance to say that by and large—there are some exceptions—the bulk...

The whole House is glad to hear that there has been constructive engagement on this matter, as it...

I take that point, although obviously one of the letters is not mine—

I am more than happy to make my letter to the hon. and learned Gentleman available to the House i...

I was about to say that I will happily publish my letter but that I did not have custody of that ...

As someone who served on the Bill Committee with the hon. and learned Gentleman, I welcome the ap...

I actually said that that issue was being pressed for by Labour and the SNP—I think that is accur...

I am listening with interest because the question of an overriding privacy clause has concerned a...

If the House is content, I will deal with that in detail later. I have tabled an alternative in n...

The hon. and learned Gentleman draws attention to the manuscript amendment the Government tabled ...

I am grateful to the Minister—that was what the Opposition pressed for.

There have been dif...

It has been a pleasure to work with the hon. and learned Gentleman on the Bill. Like me, as a law...

The hon. and learned Lady made that very important point in the Bill Committee. Normally when dec...

The hon. and learned Gentleman made the point in passing, but it is salient: in reviewing what ha...

rose—

I am happy to give way again straight away.

There were two reasons for concern. First, the House should seek certainty in the law, rather tha...

I am grateful for that intervention. The certainty point is really important. It is a point that ...

The hon. and learned Gentleman and I debated this point closely in Committee, and I thank him for...

I am grateful for that intervention. To illustrate why we are satisfied, under the general privac...

I note the hon. and learned Gentleman’s comments about the difference between the two new clauses...

I am grateful for that indication.

Section 6 of the Human Rights Act requires public authorities to have regard to the Act in any ev...

I am grateful for that intervention, because it drives us back to the point of the privacy clause...

I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for his patience in giving way so many times. Frankly, I f...

I am grateful for that intervention. It is the historic trade union cases that have caused so muc...

The hon. and learned Gentleman will have seen that the Intelligence and Security Committee has ta...

I am grateful for that intervention, because what amendment 14 makes clear—the point is sometimes...

I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for giving way again. If the recommendation should be...

The answer to that is twofold, although I should say that if the decision was on the recommendati...

I have no doubt that the Solicitor General will deal with this later, but the point is that the P...

I am grateful for that indication.

I have taken longer than I had anticipated. I think I ha...

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. As will be noted, the Intelligence and Security Com...

indicated assent.

That said, words sometimes matter, and the clearer the statement, the better. I hope that my righ...

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a good additional point. He first, perfectly properly and ...

Order. Let me help the Minister a little. He has asked for more time at the end in which to deal ...

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the Minister for his response, and I look forward ...

I have listened very carefully to what my right hon. and learned Friend has said about amendment ...

I will certainly listen very carefully to what my hon. and learned Friend has to say. It was on t...

New clause 5 relates to privacy and states that the public authority must have regard to

“w...

I think my hon. Friend makes a good point. I have an underlying confidence that the amendment we ...

I have not read the individual amendments, so I am flying blind here. However, there is no doubt ...

The amendment would require that

“the Investigatory Powers Commissioner must, in particular...

I hear what my right hon. and learned Friend has said. He will be aware that, because of the argu...

I am grateful to the Minister. Clearly, the more targeted a power can be, the better. Indeed, tha...

I have unashamedly tabled a lot of amendments to the Bill, including to part 8, and the Scottish ...

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Lady for giving way, because I agree with what she is sayin...

That is an excellent suggestion that the Government should consider carefully.

I also menti...

I share the hon. and learned Lady’s concern that maybe there is not enough time to consider the B...

I knew that that was a pointless exercise that would have eaten into the time that we have, so no...

More pointedly, the Committee stage finished a day early, so why did she not debate the Bill for ...

If anyone reads the records of that Committee, they will see that I made more than my fair share ...

As usual, my hon. and learned Friend is making a powerful case. Does she agree that the judicial ...

I do, but let us suppose the judicial commissioners have been selected by an independent board. T...

The hon. and learned Lady is absolutely right in her recollection, and I am giving this matter an...

I hear what the Solicitor General says, but we took clause 203 into account when framing this ame...

I am pleased to take part in this debate, although I shall only speak briefly because I know that...

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Reference was made earlier to an exchange of corresponden...

That is certainly a good point of clarification. I call Harriet Harman.

6.45 pm

I rise to speak in support of amendment 146, which stands in my name and those of fellow members ...

Will the right hon. and learned Lady give way?

Will the right hon. and learned Lady give way?

I will give way first to the hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) and then to t...

The Joint Committee on the draft Bill debated this matter in some detail. We concluded that it is...

It might well be useful for commissioners to have experience of both functions, but not at the sa...

I agree with the right hon. and learned Lady to an extent. Does her argument not boil down to the...

That is precisely my point. The Joint Committee on Human Rights and the independent reviewer have...

Privacy is the right to be left alone. It was once proclaimed to be the most comprehensive of rig...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. and learned Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer...

rose—

Having mentioned lawyers, I guess I have to give way to one.

I am no lawyer, but having sat at the table of a judge for many years, I can tell the right hon. ...

I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that that is not my experience. The right hon. and learned Me...

I will keep my remarks short, Mr Deputy Speaker, as I appreciate that you want them to be short. ...

I am not going to surprise my hon. Friend or the House, but he will have noted that the changes w...

I will certainly meet the Minister halfway, because I will not call a vote on my provisions, or v...

I will be grateful to my hon. Friend if he can answer this question; it may negate the need for m...

I certainly do not take any credit for being good at drafting new clauses. New clause 16 may not ...

New clause 1 stands in my name and is supported by Scottish National party Members. It is remarka...

I understand that you would like Members to be brief, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am not a lawyer and I ...

It is a great pleasure to speak on Report, particularly as the heirs of Walsingham and Egerton ar...

I had the privilege of being a member of the Joint Committee and of the Bill Committee, so I feel...

On the point about a time limit of three months, is my hon. Friend aware that in 58% of requests ...

Very much so. That shows the time sensitivity of many investigations, and I am grateful to my hon...

The level of encryption available in public today is such that new clause 1 would allow criminals...

That is exactly right. My hon. Friend makes the point that I was about to make, in fact.

Oh, sorry.

Not at all. [Interruption.] It has never stopped me before. The new clause will help criminals to...

The hon. Lady is making a powerful point, but she is talking about a fear of what may be to come....

I am extremely grateful for that intervention, which shows powerfully just how important this is....

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I am literally on my last page.

It seems to me that the reason for these amendments is the sense that there is not sufficient acc...

I hesitate to do the job of my Front-Bench colleagues, and I know that the Solicitor General will...

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins). ...

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline N...

We know that, since 2010, the majority of security services’ counter-terrorism investigations hav...

It was my pleasure to serve on the Bill Committee for most of its sittings. I put on the record m...

I certainly would not wish to see the two conflated, but—to reassure my hon. Friend—I really do n...

I am grateful for my right hon. and learned Friend’s clarification. That might be the intention o...

Much of the Bill as it currently stands is about drawing together many strands of existing legisl...

I am sure hon. Members on both sides will forgive me if I have to canter through all the issues t...

I realise that time is short. The Minister has gone a long way towards reassuring me, and I certa...

I am not saying that the new clause is unreasonable; I am simply being cautious about the need fo...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 8—Further p...

It is a pleasure to deal with the second group of amendments. It is a large group, which some hon...

I am grateful to the Solicitor General for recognising the importance not only of the Wilson doct...

I am extremely grateful to the Chairman of the Justice Committee, who speaks with knowledge and e...

Bluntly, I ask my hon. and learned Friend to ensure that proposals come forward whether or not th...

My right hon. Friend speaks with passion and sincere conviction on such matters. He will be glad ...

Has my hon. and learned Friend noticed my amendment 1, in which I introduce the extra safeguard t...

My hon. Friend has tabled that amendment in the spirit of his speech on Second Reading, which ref...

Unfortunately, I am afraid that I can give my hon. and learned Friend evidence of his account of ...

With respect to my right hon. Friend, I think it does, because we are putting in the Bill the Pri...

Labour has taken a responsible and pragmatic approach to this Bill. We have supported the princip...

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that a point we need to make is that the privilege is not th...

The hon. Gentleman makes a tremendously important point very well. This is about a basic protecti...

Bearing in mind that the protection is for parliamentarians across these islands, does the right ...

That is a fair point, and the amendment tabled by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for...

I have met the Bar Council, and I am meeting the Law Society on Wednesday, so I can assure him th...

My mistake; I did hear the Solicitor General say that he was meeting those bodies this week. It i...

This point has just occurred to me, looking at the exchange of letters between Front-Bench spokes...

I do not know whether that was a compliment, but I will take it as such. The right hon. Gentleman...

Will my right hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to Unite, the Union of Construction, Allied T...

I will indeed pay tribute to Unite, GMB and UCATT, which, in the past couple of months, have reac...

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the remit of the Pitchford inquiry, which has been set u...

That is certainly one way of addressing the concerns that I am putting on record tonight, but ano...

May I expand on the point that my right hon. Friend is making? Perhaps some people outside the Ch...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Those were people who were trying to protect their workmates ...

My right hon. Friend is making a very powerful case. I do not know whether he is aware of this, b...

I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is quite clear that “all Special Branches” provided informa...

I rise to speak to my amendment 1, which is, in clause 24, page 19, line 8, at the end to insert ...

I have a great deal of sympathy for what my hon. Friend has to say, but does he share my concern ...

I am perfectly happy—I think everyone in this House is—with the proposal that if the Secretary of...

My hon. Friend makes a proper point about the Speaker’s role in English votes for English laws, a...

There may be a difference, but I do not think it is a substantive one. [Interruption.] I am delig...

Surely one key point is that there would be an inhibition on a Secretary of State or a Prime Mini...

Exactly. It is an inhibition, and I presume that the Home Secretary and Prime Minister would take...

Is there an issue of accountability here? If the judgment is wrong, would it not be extremely reg...

I understand that example, but it can be taken to extremes. Every day of the week the Speaker mak...

There are few Members of this House whom I hold in higher regard than I do my hon. Friend, but li...

The Minister makes that point, but as Members of Parliament we should try to think outside the po...

The difficulty with the hon. Gentleman’s argument is that he assumes that the Prime Minister of t...

I can see what the difference would be in a time of national crisis. The information will be clea...

The Scottish National party has tabled a significant number of amendments to parts 2 and 5, and c...

I am listening with great interest to the hon. and learned Lady. She will be aware that the Joint...

No, I do not accept that. As I say, the phrase is sprinkled throughout the Bill to justify very b...

I intend to touch on this briefly when I speak. It is right to point out that, after making that ...

I do not wish to quibble with the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s conclusion, but unfortunatel...

I shall speak to four different sets of amendments. As I said earlier, it is a difficult Bill to ...

I am entirely in agreement with my hon. Friend on this. He says that it might not involve hacking...

I totally agree with my right hon. Friend’s point. As a Master of Science and Technology, I, of c...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that explanation of his amendment, but surely there are c...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her intervention, but the reality is that schedule 4 to the B...

The Joint Committee on Human Rights has four issues relating to this group of amendments that it ...

What my right hon. and learned Friend says sums up the position. The Opposition Front-Bench team ...

Let us see whether the Minister and the Government will recognise that we are all trying to get t...

I could make two points about what the right hon. and learned Lady said. She says that the Speake...

It is true that we are sending part of the process to the Speaker, but we are not giving them the...

Let me get this right. The right hon. and learned Lady is saying the Speaker would know when and ...

No, I think the Speaker would have to know the basis of the application if they wanted to; otherw...

Will my right hon. and learned Friend give way?

I will, but I have a feeling that, sadly, I will disagree with my right hon. Friend, because I he...

It is typical of my right hon. and learned Friend to get her defence in before hearing the attack...

Because the Prime Minister is the Executive, and we need the separation of powers and the balance...

I am grateful to one of my predecessors for allowing me to intervene. What if, in a hearing, the ...

The point is that the system has accountability for the Home Secretary for issuing the warrant th...

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harma...

I think my right hon. and learned Friend can see the problem: if we limit the provision too much—...

I am grateful to the Solicitor General, and I have no reason to disagree with his analysis of the...

Since my right hon. and learned Friend is inviting me to employ my ingenuity, I will try to do so...

Order. I wish to listen to the mellifluous tones of the right hon. Gentleman, as some Members do,...

I think this is about proportionality. The answer to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member ...

I am grateful to the Minister, and I leave the matter there.

I turn now to amendments 19, 2...

Although I am conscious that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will not, for obvious reasons, ...

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The consequence of damaging national infrastructure...

Given the lateness of the hour and the number of right hon. and hon. Members still wishing to cat...

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael).

T...

rose—

I will call Mr Cox briefly, but I wish to call the Minister no later than 10.50 pm.

10.45 p...

I shall be very brief, Mr Speaker, and I am grateful to you for calling me at this late hour. I w...

I only hope that your earlier remarks about my style, Mr Speaker, can be matched by my substance....

Order. I know the Minister of State is greatly enjoying his oration, but I am conscious of the fa...

Seven minutes of pure joy, Mr Speaker.

The Government will bring back further amendments to...

I did not quite follow what my right hon. Friend meant by that. I exhorted him to give the matter...

“Very much thought” is my middle name. Actually, that is several middle names, isn’t it, Mr Speak...

I am concerned about the terminology used in amendment 262. It refers to the British Islands, whi...

Notwithstanding that technical point, which I will happily deal with after the debate—I am gratef...

The Minister’s comments at the Dispatch Box will have given hope to thousands of trade unionists ...

I cannot add to that, so I had better just sit down. Thank you very much.

Question put and ...