UK Parliament / Open data

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Monday, 3 November 2014, in the House of Commons, led by Tom Brake and Sam Gyimah. The answering members were Wayne David and Thomas Docherty.
Programme motion (no. 2) on proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading. Agreed to on question. Committee stage second day. Clauses 6 to 25 agreed to, with Clause 19 agreed to as amended. Schedules 1 to 6 agreed to. Bill reported, as amended.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
587 cc565-610 
Session
2014-15
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Recall of MPs Bill 2014-15
Thursday, 11 September 2014
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2014-1447
Monday, 10 November 2014
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2014-1452
Monday, 10 November 2014
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 587 c566 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 1 be the First sche...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c566 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mrs Laing. For some reason, I suspe...


Show all contributions (159)
Lady Hermon | 587 c566 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister so early on. He will know that in Northern Ireland, the chie...

Sam Gyimah | 587 cc566-7 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, it will be up to the local authority to provide additional staff to help the electoral offic...

David Heath | 587 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister accept that there is a certain inconsistency about the geographical size of con...

Sam Gyimah | 587 cc567-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point that takes me further into my argument. We are taking addit...

Jim Cunningham | 587 c568 (Link to this contribution)

Is there any particular reasons for eight weeks?

Sam Gyimah | 587 c568 (Link to this contribution)

The view is that eight weeks—roughly 40 working days—gives sufficient time, or even more than amp...

Lady Hermon | 587 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene again. I gently remind him that, ...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention—she is welcome to intervene as much as possible. The p...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c568 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify his point about the system working in the same way as a general electio...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c569 (Link to this contribution)

That is a very good question. We will set that out in regulations, but I anticipate that the voti...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c569 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister, but if I understand him correctly, the Government are proposing to...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c569 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman mentions a town hall or local council office, but it is not necessarily for th...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c569 (Link to this contribution)

I detect another intervention.

Lady Hermon | 587 c569 (Link to this contribution)

It is very kind indeed of the Minister to invite an intervention before I am even on my feet. As ...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c570 (Link to this contribution)

Once again, the hon. Lady makes a very powerful point. As I said, the practice has been designed ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c570 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise—I perhaps should have raised this point with the Minister in advance—but I have being...

Sam Gyimah | 587 cc570-1 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a very smart point. He is clearly reading the Bill in detail, as he shou...

Lady Hermon | 587 c571 (Link to this contribution)

For the sake of clarity, can the Minister sum up what the position is now in Northern Ireland for...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c571 (Link to this contribution)

The advice I have received is that the same protections on voter ID will apply in Northern Irelan...

Lady Hermon | 587 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful indeed to the Minister for repeating the explanation that floated across the C...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the point the hon. Lady is making; I am happy to have a look at it, assess the situa...

Wayne David | 587 cc571-2 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make a few brief comments and ask the Minister some questions about clause 6 and schedu...

Lord Beamish | 587 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I imagine that, for the Western Isles or even parts of rural County Durham, four places would be ...

Wayne David | 587 cc572-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely the point; my hon. Friend puts it very well. Surely, given the extreme variatio...

Lord Beamish | 587 c573 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a good point. The MP in question might not lose his or her seat followin...

Wayne David | 587 c573 (Link to this contribution)

That, too, is a good point, which deserves careful consideration. I think we all know from our ex...

Lord Beamish | 587 c573 (Link to this contribution)

We should bear in mind what has happened in the United States, where so much pressure is put on p...

Wayne David | 587 cc573-4 (Link to this contribution)

That concern was expressed during our last sitting, and it is a concern felt by many people in th...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c574 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to be serving under your chairmanship in the Chamber, Sir Roger, rather th...

Lord Beamish | 587 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I know the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) is unable to be here today through illne...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c574 (Link to this contribution)

My amendment is supported by my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith), and he ...

Lord Beamish | 587 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman has not answered my question. The point the hon. Member for Ri...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c575 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is tempting me to make arguments for somebody who is not here, which is a wond...

Lady Hermon | 587 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene on his geography lesson, which i...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I rather agreed with the hon. Lady when she expressed her concern about the difficulties of votin...

Lord Beamish | 587 c576 (Link to this contribution)

It is a Daily Mail myth that postal vote fraud is rampant. When the Electoral Commission ran its ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 cc576-7 (Link to this contribution)

There are undoubtedly greater difficulties with postal voting. My major concern is that it underm...

Lord Beamish | 587 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I want to comment on amendment 38, which the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c577 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware that unlike for an election, where the returning officer is required to c...

Lord Beamish | 587 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I was about to come on to that. The interesting thing is that even though the hon. Member for Ric...

David Heath | 587 cc577-9 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make a few observations on the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend and constituency neig...

Wayne David | 587 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the eloquent points he is making. Given that the ballot paper is v...

David Heath | 587 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I do think that, because I have had the great pleasure, during nearly 18 years in this House, of ...

Lord Beamish | 587 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but is there not a slight difference? In an elect...

David Heath | 587 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I am not clear what the process is. The hon. Gentleman may well have more information on this tha...

Lord Beamish | 587 c580 (Link to this contribution)

This is also about knowing what the process would be to ensure that the signature being sent in i...

David Heath | 587 c580 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right about that. We all have experience of petitions where we look down th...

Lord Beamish | 587 c580 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The signatures and names and addresses are not going to be...

David Heath | 587 c580 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is of course absolutely right. Indeed, people sometimes forget that they have ...

Mark Durkan | 587 cc581-2 (Link to this contribution)

First, I rise to speak in support of amendment 38, which seems to make a reasonable point, one I ...

Lord Beamish | 587 c582 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will correct me if I am wrong, but in Northern Ireland, I think, voters must s...

Mark Durkan | 587 c582 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises another significant point in the Northern Ireland context. Yes, ID is r...

Lord Beamish | 587 c582 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that in Northern Ireland that provision is in place, but in the rest of the UK it is not....

Mark Durkan | 587 cc582-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman’s point gives rise to the question of location. Whether there is a minimum or ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c583 (Link to this contribution)

May I first welcome the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) to his place? I und...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c583 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that I take the view that the Chamber is the final and highest ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 cc583-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thought the hon. Gentleman took the view that Her Majesty was the final authority; he is obviou...

Lord Beamish | 587 c584 (Link to this contribution)

I suggest that without it the process would be completely open to fraud, because anyone could go ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 cc584-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. We think that there are concerns about validity. The Member...

Lord Beamish | 587 c585 (Link to this contribution)

That suggestion would not get around the point made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) ab...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c585 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, but you will forgive me, Sir Roger, if I do not speculate about ...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c585 (Link to this contribution)

Welcome, Sir Roger, to the Chair. A number of very good points have been made and I shall deal wi...

Lord Beamish | 587 c585 (Link to this contribution)

In an AV referendum, postal voters would be sent a ballot paper. Here, we are asking people to co...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c586 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to develop my point, he will realise that I was speaking spec...

Wayne David | 587 c586 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says that there has been consultation with the Electoral Commission, but the commiss...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c586 (Link to this contribution)

There is not a sliver of doubt in my mind. I am smiling because I actually agree with the hon. Ge...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c586 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister refers repeatedly to the secondary legislation process and the Standing Orders. Howe...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c586 (Link to this contribution)

We will be using the powers of secondary legislation to amend the Bill once we have been through ...

David Heath | 587 c587 (Link to this contribution)

I applaud the Minister for being open-minded about this issue and I realise he is describing a pr...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c587 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish describing the process I was outlining. We will get Royal Assent for the Bill, unde...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c587 (Link to this contribution)

I say in the spirit of bipartisanship that I think the Minister may have misspoken. The hon. Memb...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c587 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman rightly points out from a sedentary position, we all want the same thing: w...

Lord Beamish | 587 cc587-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is important to point out that these are not polling stations but collection points for petiti...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

The main point is that the person who determines where the polling stations are located is the pe...

Lord Beamish | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

In my experience, it is possible to influence the outcome of these things. I remember that many y...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman seems to assume that the only way in which people can participate in this proc...

David Heath | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

I think that most electoral registration officers will fulfil their duties as petition officers w...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent and logical point that is consistent with what we are tryin...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c588 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister, who is being incredibly patient given the number of questions. I h...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to that point later.

The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) asked whether anyo...

Lord Beamish | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give way on that point?

Sam Gyimah | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

May I try to get through my speech?

Sam Gyimah | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I will just carry on.

The hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) asked about the requirem...

Lord Beamish | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Sir Roger. I think that the purpose of a Committee is for the Minister to an...

Roger Gale | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has been in the House long enough to know that the Member who has the Floor de...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Sir Roger. I think I have been quite generous in allowing interventions in the spirit ...

Lord Beamish | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

What would be the purpose of a marked register if it were not public? If the public did not know ...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely why we are considering the issue. Obviously, the point of the register is to ma...

Lady Hermon | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. He kindly said to me at the beginning of the d...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for that point. The Government are trying to strike the right balance. My h...

Lady Hermon | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I am enormously grateful to the Minister for giving way. If he persists with this line of argumen...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the hon. Lady’s particular point about Northern Ireland, but I do not think that the...

Mark Durkan | 587 c591 (Link to this contribution)

Only 10% of voters would have to sign the recall petition during those eight weeks, which is a lo...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c591 (Link to this contribution)

Eight weeks is reasonable, given that there will be a campaign on both sides. Once there is a not...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c591 (Link to this contribution)

What I specifically asked about was how many electors the Government, in reaching that total, est...

Sam Gyimah | 587 c591 (Link to this contribution)

I will have to get back to the hon. Gentleman on that specific point of detail.

In rounding...

Roger Gale | 587 cc591-2 (Link to this contribution)

Order. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make a point of order, I will take it, but he knows that o...

Roger Gale | 587 c592 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to amendment 38, which has not been moved, so it is a question of whether any hon. Me...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c592 (Link to this contribution)

I thought I had moved it in the speech I made earlier.

Roger Gale | 587 c592 (Link to this contribution)

Let me explain, for the benefit of the whole Committee, that only the lead measure, which in this...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 587 c592 (Link to this contribution)

May I move the amendment with a few words, Sir Roger?

Roger Gale | 587 c592 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 15 stand part.

Tom Brake | 587 cc592-3 (Link to this contribution)

Clauses 14 and 15 set out the actions that must be taken to determine whether a petition is succe...

Tom Brake | 587 c593 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I have concluded my remarks. Perhaps the hon. Lady would like to make a speech.

Roger Gale | 587 c593 (Link to this contribution)

Under the circumstances, the only thing that I can do is to call the hon. Lady.

Lady Hermon | 587 cc593-5 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill is so important that I think I would like to speak.

Voting in this country is a se...

David Heath | 587 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I have just one quick question for the Minister. Has he or any other Minister had any discussions...

Tom Brake | 587 cc595-6 (Link to this contribution)

I think that it would be appropriate for me to respond to the points that have been made.

T...

Anne Main | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is outlining how long people have to respond to a petition. Given the concerns of th...

Tom Brake | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

I suspect that Members will look at what happens in other elections, and at the parallels we have...

Lady Hermon | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister replied to the point rightly indentified by the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main)...

Tom Brake | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

Again, the hon. Lady can draw parallels with other election processes and the avenues available f...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can be helpful to the Minister. The hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) raises an ...

Tom Brake | 587 c596 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to take helpful interventions from the hon. Gentleman—and indeed any inspiration, whic...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c597 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister agree that those discussions with IPSA must take place before the Bill becomes ...

Tom Brake | 587 c597 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is in everyone’s interest for those discussions to take p...

David Heath | 587 c597 (Link to this contribution)

This raises an important point. In an election, the election is held, the result declared, and th...

Tom Brake | 587 c597 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for that further contribution. There may come a point where a Member of Pa...

Roger Gale | 587 c597 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 3 be the Third sche...

Tom Brake | 587 c598 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 16 gives effect to schedule 3, which sets out the regulation of expenditure; to schedule 4...

Lady Hermon | 587 c598 (Link to this contribution)

As the Bill extends to the whole United Kingdom, will the Minister take the opportunity to confir...

Tom Brake | 587 cc598-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I am unable to give the hon. Lady the reassurance she needs. My understanding is that...

Anne Main | 587 c599 (Link to this contribution)

Currently, recognised parties have an imprinted logo on all leaflets to ensure that any leaflet t...

Tom Brake | 587 c599 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure whether the hon. Lady is conflating having an imprint and identifying campaign grou...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c599 (Link to this contribution)

May I take the Minister back to the point made by the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon)? A...

Tom Brake | 587 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but I need to respond to an earlier interventio...

Lady Hermon | 587 c600 (Link to this contribution)

It is very kind of you, Sir Roger Gale, to call me to speak when I have not indicated that I wish...

Roger Gale | 587 c600 (Link to this contribution)

I thought the hon. Lady was rising.

Lady Hermon | 587 cc601-2 (Link to this contribution)

I was indeed intending to rise. It is so nice of you to call me, Sir Roger.

This is a very ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 cc602-3 (Link to this contribution)

I will be as brief as possible. I did not think that this part of the Bill would be contentious—I...

Anne Main | 587 c603 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making a valid point, in that those groups would have one aim: not to get t...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c603 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree. There is merit in further discussion about that because, as the hon. Lady says,...

Tom Brake | 587 cc603-4 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a useful debate, identifying some areas where the Government could usefully do some m...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c604 (Link to this contribution)

I do not wish to detain the Committee any longer than necessary, but I wonder whether the Ministe...

Tom Brake | 587 cc604-5 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman often does, he has come back with a very detailed question, to which I will...

David Crausby | 587 c605 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: clause 19 stand part.

Government ...

Tom Brake | 587 c605 (Link to this contribution)

I will now speak to amendments 50, 51 and 52, which seek to amend clause 19, and which have been ...

Lady Hermon | 587 cc605-6 (Link to this contribution)

I could not possibly allow the Minister to move on so quickly from clause 18, which is a very imp...

Tom Brake | 587 c606 (Link to this contribution)

I knew I would not get away without an intervention from the hon. Lady in this final group of ame...

David Heath | 587 cc606-7 (Link to this contribution)

I have three brief points. The first echoes the point made by the hon. Member for North Down (Lad...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c607 (Link to this contribution)

It is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I have just three or four brief poin...

Anne Main | 587 c607 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Member of Parliament still be working as a Member of Parliament during the period concer...

Thomas Docherty | 587 cc607-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has asked an excellent question. It is not for me to speak for the Government—yet—b...

Tom Brake | 587 c608 (Link to this contribution)

Let me respond briefly to the points that have been made.

The hon. Member for North Down (L...

David Heath | 587 c608 (Link to this contribution)

It would be very simple to check.

Tom Brake | 587 c608 (Link to this contribution)

It would, but that is why the Government want to designate a place of signature, as happens when ...

Thomas Docherty | 587 c608 (Link to this contribution)

Let me help out the hon. Gentleman, who does not usually need any help. According to my recollect...

Tom Brake | 587 c609 (Link to this contribution)

I may have misunderstood the point that my hon. Friend. was making. I thought that he was questio...

David Heath | 587 c609 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to delay things, but if there are four designated places, and there is a long perio...

Tom Brake | 587 cc609-610 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely understand that point, although I suspect that had my hon. Friend, in his previous gui...

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