Finance Bill

It will be no surprise to the hon. Gentleman that I do not agree with his point.

Is the hon. Lady aware of that principle?

I am aware of that point of principle and I will come to it in due course, because it is an issue...

Before the hon. Lady comes to that principle, she will be aware that the 2012 Red Book confirmed ...

I thank the hon. Gentleman. He and I do not always agree on every matter that is discussed in the...

It is indeed a lot of money for many of my constituents and my hon. Friend’s. Is she aware of the...

Yes indeed. My hon. Friend makes an important point on which I will comment further in due course...

rose—

Let me answer my hon. Friend’s point because it is important to understand the impact that this G...

rose—

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that point.

Will the hon. Lady say whether Labour would reinstate the 50p tax rate if it were in government, ...

The hon. Gentleman has probably heard many Opposition Members stand at the Dispatch Box and make ...

rose—

I want to finish this point. If the hon. Gentleman can contain his excitement, I am sure he will ...

The hon. Lady said that if Labour was in power now it would reverse the decision and reinstate th...

I find it astonishing that Government Members never seem to take any responsibility for what is g...

The hon. Lady made some important and passionate points about the impact of being worse off every...

I can say to the hon. Gentleman that yes, we would stick to principles of fairness and equality, ...

rose—

I want to make progress but I will, of course, give way to the hon. Gentleman.

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady; she always covers these issues with great interest. Why...

I always listen with interest to what the hon. Gentleman has to say, and I know from his contribu...

The hon. Lady makes a good point about the impact on bonuses. Does she welcome the recommendation...

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman recognises the points that I have made. He will, of course, be ...

The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech, but she has mentioned what makes the public angry. I t...

The hon. Gentleman started by trying to pay me some sort of compliment, saying that I was making ...

Does my hon. Friend agree that what is going to annoy many of our constituents is that they were ...

Once again, my hon. Friend is absolutely correct. When we heard the spending review announcements...

I congratulate my hon. Friend on her excellent speech. Further to confirm her point so that every...

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. Many members of the public will not look at the Chancellor’...

How much money does the hon. Lady expect to raise through a tax on bank bonuses, and how does she...

We have consistently said that we would seek to use the tax specifically to provide a jobs guaran...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I want to finish what I am saying. In March this year, 167,000 adults had been out of work for mo...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I want to finish what I am saying, and I want to make progress. I think that I have been reasonab...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No; I really do want to put this on the record. As my hon. Friend said, a two-earner couple with ...

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. I did not catch the answer to my earlier question....

I note that the hon. Gentleman showed no inclination to explain to that two-earner couple with ch...

I wonder if my hon. Friend remembers two things. She may remember that, an hour before the beginn...

My hon. Friend is right to mention the success of the future jobs fund. I still believe that, as ...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No. I am going to finish what I am saying, because I want to make clear the extent to which peopl...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will in a moment.

No wonder that people think that there is one rule for the richest and ...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

If the hon. Gentleman can contain himself for a few more moments, I would like to quote the Chanc...

The hon. Lady will know that I have always consistently argued for lower tax rates across the boa...

Once again, it is rather strange that the hon. Gentleman does not seek to give any comfort to his...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No, I want to move on. I have been very generous in taking interventions, and it is important tha...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I want at least to get to the end of that quote—that would be quite nice. I would like other Memb...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, whom I feel sure will explain to me what the Government in...

As it happens, I was going to say something different, which will not surprise the House particul...

I look forward to the hon. Gentleman’s contribution in our future debates about the possibility o...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, as I know he takes this issue very seriously.

I wish to take the hon. Lady back to the impact of the bankers bonus tax on getting young people ...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his information; I gave way to him because I know he takes these i...

Does the hon. Lady not recognise the fatuousness of her argument that this money could somehow be...

I do not think that my constituents in Kilmarnock and Loudoun who are out of work and desperate t...

I want to follow up on the points made by the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) about the ...

My hon. Friend has made her point extremely succinctly and has put on the record why we feel that...

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who is being most generous in giving way. She said earlier that t...

The reality for my constituents and those of Labour Members is that they want to know why the Gov...

You created it.

I hear yet again that tired mantra from Conservative Members, as if, somehow, Labour created the ...

Because it is true.

I see that we have all sprung to life now.

We have been asked that question over and over again. Had we been asked it two years ago, and had...

My hon. Friend speaks words of wisdom. I have repeatedly said today, and it has been said by othe...

I would not expect my hon. Friend to set out our tax policies two years before a general election...

My hon. Friend speaks with great passion on behalf of his constituents and he is correct to ident...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, but the situation is even worse than that for 2.4 million low...

Once again, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is a powerful advocate for his constituents an...

My hon. Friend is being incredibly generous in giving way. She is right to emphasise the impact o...

Once again, my hon. Friend makes an important point, particularly in relation to many middle-inco...

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) has waxed lyrical at some considerabl...

I should just correct my hon. Friend: there was one month in that 13-year period when the rate wa...

I was going to go on to say that the Labour Government lasted 13 years, and that it was only in t...

My hon. Friend is making the point, very cogently, that elections are won on the middle ground. T...

I do not know why we are bothering to give the Labour party this friendly advice. Why are we tryi...

My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. I am afraid that the impulse has been a political on...

We are all familiar with the Laffer curve and the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Nor...

I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with interest. I wonder what he would say in response to the...

It is not a question of rewarding them. The truth is that the more complicated the tax system, th...

rose—

Perhaps the hon. Lady also recognises it, but I fear not.

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman is not including the most obvious millionaires in this cou...

That is an absurd argument. I watched the Brazil match yesterday—did the hon. Lady? Millions of o...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; he is being most generous. I must correct him on ...

I had better stop now, because others want to get in.

rose—

I will give way one last time and then I will stop.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his generosity in giving way. He has highlighted the precise ...

Of course. There should be a huge health warning on Labour’s proposal. British people should be w...

It is always a joy to follow the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). In a different ...

I just want to make a simple point. Every time the tax rate for the richest was cut under the pre...

The tool that the previous Tory Government used, which this Tory Government are using as well, wa...

I am very interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Would he therefore approve of a perman...

As I was saying, there is a problem with trying to impose a scientific discipline on something th...

It is almost impossible to have a debate when Opposition Members talk about the past but when que...

The hon. Gentleman is not listening to what I am saying, if I may be so bold. I did not make any ...

The hon. Gentleman is being generous in giving way. I hope that he tells his constituents the tru...

Surprisingly, I find myself in agreement with the hon. Gentleman on his last comment—work does pa...

One thing that is predictable is that the bedroom tax, which my hon. Friend mentioned, is going t...

I thank my hon. Friend for that wise intervention. Welfare reform is a warm and nice thing to say...

The hon. Gentleman may be right about that, but the acts that he is complaining about happened un...

When Conservative Members were talking about the Laffer curve, Ronald Reagan came to mind. For so...

Order. I think that is enough about television shows.

I was just wondering what the man at the kitchen table was watching. I apologise, Mr Deputy Speak...

The hon. Gentleman talks about banking fraud. The laws that would have been broken would have bee...

I agree that we do not know, as there has been no investigation.

To help the hon. Gentleman out here, if he had been in the Chamber this time last year, he would ...

Yes, but I should tell the hon. Gentleman that I was in the Treasury Committee when Bob Diamond c...

We have heard a couple of rather lengthy speeches about a topic that is fairly familiar to those ...

I do not understand all the differentials, but is the Treasury model that we would get more tax i...

My hon. Friend brings me to the point that I wanted to move on to: the report that the Chancellor...

The hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) focused on our policies. The inconvenient truth for the ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The point is not whether we should seek to get a significant ...

I sympathise somewhat with the point of the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) about his and hi...

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The challenge for any sensible Government has got to be how...

My hon. Friend is giving a thoughtful economic analysis, but he perhaps misunderstands where the ...

My hon. Friend takes a sceptical view of the Opposition, and events may well turn out to justify ...

I am intrigued by the amount of advice being given to the Labour party by those on the Government...

I am not persuaded by that argument. I hoped the hon. Lady would take that opportunity to provide...

Following the Minister’s example, I will be brief. We have had a useful debate containing some im...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I am coming to a conclusion.

Let me finish by quoting the Office for Budget Responsibility,...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 9 calls for the Chancellor...

What does the hon. Gentleman say to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which states that the lates...

I would say that the aim of the 10p policy should be to encourage people on low incomes to take h...

I want to return to the question that I asked the hon. Gentleman. Most technical experts say that...

I would be the first to concede that it was a mistake to abolish the 10p rate in 2007. I do not t...

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is in the very nature of progressive taxation to have increasin...

Indeed. Having a 10p band in the income tax scale ensures that we can focus on that sense of fair...

The hon. Gentleman wishes to pay for a 10p rate from the proceeds of a mansion tax. Will he advis...

I think the right hon. Gentleman is thinking of the bedroom tax, and we can come to that in a mom...

It is interesting that the mansion tax could raise £2 billion. I wholeheartedly agree with such a...

My hon. Friend has touched on the other argument in favour of the proposal. This is not just a ma...

rose—

And the hon. Gentleman is rising as well. Perhaps he would like to confirm those figures.

Following on from what my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) said, I would l...

I am not sure how many elderly people would find themselves in that predicament, but such circums...

Is my hon. Friend as puzzled as I am by the Government’s opposition to this proposal? During the ...

It is the oft-trotted-out claim of the Liberal Democrats that they are there to temper the worst ...

Can the hon. Gentleman clarify, for any of my constituents who might inhabit one of those 55,000 ...

I do not think that it would necessarily be £36,000. Again, I suggest that the hon. Gentleman tal...

There is a real question of financial competence, particularly in relation to the hon. Gentleman’...

That is precisely why we think the proposal needs the Treasury’s support—to ensure that we can se...

rose—

Perhaps the Government are going to accept the new clause.

I am afraid that I am going to disappoint the hon. Gentleman. He says that the Labour party’s obj...

That was a good try by the Exchequer Secretary, and I understand where he is going with that argu...

Short of showing the workings, £2 billion divided by 55,000 is £36,000. The hon. Gentleman says t...

I know that the Liberal Democrats support the Government on that and note the sedentary remarks f...

Actually, I quoted the figure of 55,000, which appears to have come as a huge surprise to the hon...

I do not know how simple I need to make the point for the Exchequer Secretary, so I will do so ve...

Surely my hon. Friend will agree that the figure of 55,000 is a complete red herring. It is being...

That is why we must ensure that we move the issue forward and get some proper workings from the T...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment. The Liberal Democrat 2010 manifesto—I know tha...

I know that maths is not the hon. Gentleman’s strongest suit, because in Committee we heard that ...

The Government have apparently undertaken their own valuation exercise, perhaps stealthily, so th...

Does my hon. Friend find it extraordinary that Government Members appear to have been sitting dow...

It is all because their focus is on protecting the wealth of the wealthiest. Ducks go quack and C...

On the 10% tax rate, I understand graduated taxation in principle, but a lot of people who pay th...

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s thought on this issue, but I disagree. I do understand tha...

I wish to make a procedural point. Does not the shadow Minister accept that when a Minister asks ...

Obviously I believe every word that the Exchequer Secretary utters, because it would be unparliam...

Does my hon. Friend agree that we seem to have got involved in a debate that is certainly not the...

On 24 February the Deputy Prime Minister said:

“Victor Hugo observed that it is near imposs...

My hon. Friend will know that there is an increasing trend of international financiers buying Lon...

Yes, I agree. Governments often ask Oppositions how they will pay for tax cuts for those who need...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I seem to have provoked the hon. Gentleman.

If the 10p rate is such a good idea, why did the previous Labour Government get rid of it?

I did say earlier—I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was in the Chamber—that it was a mista...

In essence this debate is about political choices and not just the technical efficiencies of marg...

The hon. Gentleman may have read an Institute of Welsh Affairs blog today by Gerry Holtham, the w...

A moment ago I talked about Arab oil sheiks and now I am going to talk about Welsh milk shakes. O...

My hon. Friend and I arrived in this House in 1997. In government, Labour confined itself to the ...

I am glad that my hon. Friend brings that point up in this debate about the mansion tax. In 1997,...

The hon. Gentleman is making some partisan points, so I want to add balance to the debate. I have...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for telling me his economic background. It is useful that peo...

Order. Mr Davies, do you think that we could come back to the mansion tax and the 10p rate? Your ...

I am grateful for your expert advice, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will move quickly back to the mansi...

When the debates took place on whether the 50p tax should be changed, Government Members were kee...

In relation to the mansion tax, does my hon. Friend not think that there is too much looking at L...

We had certainly always understood that the Liberals supported a mansion tax, but every time the ...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about the mansion tax. Has she followed the Government’...

I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful steer towards the point that it might not be as difficult...

Using that argument, people have said, “Oh well, we’ll raise more with a 45p rate than a 50p rate...

It certainly sounds on the face of it as if some sort of income arrangement was possible. For a l...

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s enormous generosity in giving way. She may know that in the pa...

I was looking through the property pages of The Sunday Times yesterday, and interestingly it was ...

As property prices go up, rents also start to go through the roof. That has been reflected up and...

There has undoubtedly been a huge increase in the private rented sector. When I was elected as a ...

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s enormous generosity in giving way again. Is she aware—I am sur...

Order. Mr Davies, you were right when you said that you have intervened a lot. I do not mind you ...

I was not aware of the figure to which my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies...

It has been a number of weeks since we debated the provision in earlier stages of the Bill. My co...

But only Welsh farmers—[Interruption.]

And Scottish farmers, I am sure, and so on.

A mansion tax—I think my colleagues on the Fron...

My hon. Friend has made a strong speech so far, but is she—as I am—completely bemused by the posi...

I suspect that that policy got lost in the negotiations that are part of a coalition. I have also...

Order. I am sure that the hon. Lady must be getting to the point at which she links her remarks w...

The link is that some would argue that a mansion tax would be oppressive on people who may live i...

I feel as though this is part two of my speech. I listen to Government Members, and I hear the so...

It gets even worse for the Liberal Democrats. Not only did the Deputy Prime Minister say in that ...

I, too, hope to see them in the Lobby, but I am sure that they will not be there. That is the won...

Order. Mr Evans, I gave you a little leniency on the earlier new clause, but on this one, we have...

I have the Bill in my hand, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I am going to come to the relevant clause.

Having the clause in the hon. Gentleman’s hand is not necessarily helpful; it is what he says tha...

I was just coming on to that point, Mr Deputy Speaker, I just needed time.

And you should speak to the Chair, too.

I ask anybody who says that this mansion tax cannot be introduced to read clause 92, which relate...

Order. I can cope a little bit with this speech. The Liberals may well want to hear the hon. Gent...

I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. Much as I think the Liberal Democrats believe that the world revol...

Let me try to help the hon. Gentleman out. He will be aware that in Wales we had a council tax re...

I find myself in shock, but I agree with a member of the Welsh nationalist party. There is some m...

My hon. Friend makes an important point about how work will pay. The other side of the coin is ho...

Yes, I do. I think this is a win-win situation for everyone. Yes, I have said that we got the 10p...

I was in the Chamber at the opening of the debate, and I would like to make a brief contribution ...

New clause 9 proposes the introduction of an income tax rate of 10% on a band of income determine...

Will the Minister give way?

I will in a moment. I look forward to the hon. Gentleman’s question, and will listen to it attent...

With whom do the Minister’s sympathies lie most? Do they lie most with the householder faced with...

Let me reply by echoing what was said by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and...

I am interested in the fact that the Minister thinks that the analogy is not applicable. How, tho...

We do not believe that that model could be scaled up to apply more generally. A proper valuation ...

I can assure the Minister that he is wrong to have concerns that anyone is looking to apply the p...

In my neck of the woods, there are not too many people with £2 million houses. There may well be ...

I do not think that our plans do. We would look at mansions—that form of housing accommodation. H...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 5—Restricti...

This Government are determined to crack down on tax avoidance by the small minority of individual...

The Minister has made some rather bold statements. Will he reiterate what he just said? He sugges...

That is not quite what I said. I said that it would not be sensible for the UK to take unilateral...

I congratulate the Government on their work, particularly in the G8 meeting, in trying to co-ordi...

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Elements of a business are highly portable. In 2007-...

Not that I like to pick on individual countries, but does my hon. Friend agree that the evidence ...

I would say—I think that this is the most tactful way of putting it—that the Government are deter...

I am interested by the Minister’s comments. The Minister has concerns about publishing such data,...

There is a long-standing and widespread approach that tax is a matter of confidentiality between ...

I am genuinely confused. The Minister said that the measure would go wider than the GAAR as inten...

I hope I can clear up the hon. Gentleman’s confusion. The GAAR applies to corporation tax—I am no...

Well, not particularly, because the other argument that the Minister used is that the proposal mi...

The double taxation agreements are part of the international structure, but that is not the only ...

May I say how pleased I am to hear that the Minister is a converted Blairite these days? In extol...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who brings me on neatly to the next issue, which is registra...

I thank the Minister for generously giving way. We do not even know in this country about thousan...

The hon. Gentleman tempts me into an area that I am very much looking forward to debating with hi...

I appreciate that we debated the issue at some length in Committee, but I should like to pick up ...

I have certainly sought advice, in preparation for this and other debates, on how practicable it ...

The Minister perhaps betrayed the true answer at the end of his comments. His previous response s...

The reasoning remains what it always was. HMRC has a large number of specialists on the UK tax sy...

The Minister will recall our debates on this issue in Committee. I am afraid that I still do not ...

It is not just me saying this, and there is no desire to be unhelpful. Indeed, the Government’s r...

The Minister certainly does not often pray in aid Richard Murphy. Indeed, I think this is the onl...

It is important that our debates on these matters should not simply be about the expression of wa...

It is a pleasure to speak here today on these important issues. I shall focus particularly on tho...

I wonder whether my hon. Friend, like me, is concerned that the subjectivity and lack of clarity ...

I fear that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, might accuse me of straying into rather unexplored territo...

The hon. Lady is asking whether the GAAR is too narrow. It is designed to squeeze out tax advanta...

The hon. Gentleman makes a helpful point. One would question to what extent the Government can re...

My hon. Friend is doing a good job of spelling out the sheer ludicrousness of countries losing mo...

My hon. Friend gives a powerful example of how ludicrous the failure to act on this issue is.

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case about the importance of the measures in question for dev...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Government have trumpeted their commitment to 0.7% of GDP ...

My hon. Friend has been making strong points. Does she agree that in a way this debate exemplifie...

My hon. Friend makes the important point that we are talking about justice. We talk about justice...

It is a pleasure to be here to discuss issues that we have already discussed once or twice this y...

Does the hon. Gentleman share the concerns of some people that we will never see those court case...

I doubt that. The general anti-abuse rule came out of some proposals by Graham Aaronson, a leadin...

What the hon. Gentleman says about the requirements he proposes for Companies House would go some...

I agree with the hon. Lady’s sentiment, but I was confining my remarks to the content of new clau...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. Is it not the case that about one in...

I am not sure that we should use the term “UK-owned” as I am not sure that our friends in Jersey ...

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills). I trust that Op...

My hon. Friend is, as ever, making a powerful case. We see the mismatch between the rhetoric and ...

I do so wish I had been offered the chance to sit on the Finance Bill Committee in order, day aft...

Following the G8 summit, the Prime Minister said that the provisions of the summit would raise ab...

I am sure that it will be a damn sight more than that.

I thought I would take this opportunity to say that we have thoroughly missed my hon. Friend on t...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. In this matter, as in many matters, my approach is ...

I should start by saying that I have been remiss in respect of reading the Worksop Guardian, but ...

I think the readers of the Worksop Guardian will hear my hon. Friend’s comments. Those such as yo...

I wish to give one example. The Cayman Islands have a population of about 57,000, yet 92,000 comp...

Somebody is making money, because my own football club would appear to have been part-based in th...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will certainly give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has recently entered the Chamber.

I felt that the hon. Gentleman might need to refuel a little, as he was running out of breath. I ...

Order. I have known the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) for 27 years and I can think of a l...

But on this occasion, Mr Speaker—one scratches one’s head at some interventions, which are so ina...

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way. In his shy, retiring and meek way he is ...

I thank the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris)—the fruit and veg man, a successful sm...

I am sorry to stop my hon. Friend mid-flow because he is making a powerful case not only for the ...

The new clause is so modest and so moderate. How could any reasonable and rational Member of the ...

I understand the real passion that the hon. Gentleman brings to the debate, as he often does, but...

I fear that due to our expedition next year with injured British soldiers, which I expect to take...

It is a real pleasure to follow the two previous speakers. The hon. Member for Amber Valley (Nige...

Is my hon. Friend surprised, as I am, that there is not more support for this proposal from some ...

What are you talking about?

Order. I say to the hon. Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset (Mr Liddell-Grainger): be quiet,...

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was merely reflecting that if we could tackle the way in which tax avoid...

Indeed, but that is a whole separate debate. My hon. Friend makes a serious, sensible point.

We have had a thorough debate. I do not intend to reprise all my earlier arguments, but I want to...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 6 is a technical amendment...

It is good to see the Minister popping up in the debates on the Finance Bill for the first time, ...

I thank my hon. Friend for inviting me to suggest what this money could be spent on. The infrastr...

That is the point. The Government like to say that they are trying their best to bring in revenue...

I am glad to respond to this short debate.

I do not think that the hon. Member for Nottingh...

The Minister has said that there will be a £200 million increase above the £2.5 billion for this ...

Our commitment is clear that we will raise £2.5 billion a year. The amendments that we have made ...