Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

The hon. Gentleman talks about low-paid people and what they are suffering, but will he acknowled...

I live in the heart of my constituency, among the people whom I represent, and, oddly enough, the...

Is not one reason why very low-paid people do not gain in any way from an increase in the tax thr...

The position in my constituency is exemplified by the fact that household income probably hovers ...

Is it not the case that people do not feel better off because since the Government took office, t...

I could not agree more, and that, of course, has a dramatic impact on people at the lower end of ...

I think it would be a good idea for us to start by working out what we agree about, because durin...

What the right hon. Gentleman has just said is fundamentally untrue. Just because the percentage ...

No, I am talking about people in very similar circumstances—those either in low-income employment...

The right hon. Gentleman highlights the 5.2% increase last year. I have not yet heard Opposition ...

That is where I hope, again, we can try to build a little more agreement. We need to work to avoi...

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Let me deal with one intervention and then, of course, I will give way to another.

If we ca...

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I now give way to the hon. Lady, who will now be duly aroused again.

The right hon. Gentleman clearly did not read the background papers published with the Budget in ...

The hon. Lady has chosen the wrong Member to accuse of not reading the Budget papers properly; I ...

The problem with using the tax threshold as a means of not taking money away with one hand and gi...

What a miserable world the hon. Lady lives in. People on £30,000 and £40,000 need more money as w...

Where is the work?

The hon. Gentleman shouts “Where is the work?”, and of course we need more work. There are a lot ...

The right hon. Gentleman’s idea of compassion is almost as convincing as his attempts at the Wels...

That is not my case at all. My case is that the Government inherited an impossible financial posi...

I know that the right hon. Gentleman always reads his economic documents, so why does he disagree...

If the hon. Gentleman looks again at the numbers in the Budget Red Book, he will see that the aut...

My right hon. Friend makes a valid point—1.2 million new jobs created. He missed one point, howev...

That is true, and it had to be the case because the public sector had no money left, as the previ...

Is the right hon. Gentleman pleased that many of those 1.2 million jobs claimed to have been crea...

If somebody wanted a part-time job, I am delighted that they have now got a part-time job. Quite ...

The broad-brush principles that my right hon. Friend describes are pretty much unarguable, but th...

I have already expressed the view that I did not come to Parliament to impose such restrictions o...

The right hon. Gentleman is making an interesting speech. However, is not a clear consequence of ...

The Government are fighting for credibility with their general finances. They have a series of di...

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if we put benefits up faster in this country, we would make ...

I am rather pleased that our benefits system is a lot more generous than those afforded in easter...

My right hon. Friend made an interesting and important point about eligibility. Does he agree tha...

I quite agree. I would like to see a more generous regime for disabled people, as my hon. Friend ...

I will speak to amendment 7, which stands in my name. It is an attempt, at least, to neuter what ...

Will the hon. Lady explain whether she tabled amendment 7 because RPI is normally higher than CPI...

I think the answer is probably both of the above. Recently, the RPI has been higher. I would have...

Will the hon. Lady confirm that she is advocating a return to a link between all benefits and the...

The hon. Gentleman’s intervention shows the different beliefs that he and I have about the great ...

I am with the hon. Lady; I do believe that most people want to work. I am asking her about the im...

The proposition is spurious. First, it happens very rarely; secondly, we ought to look at the act...

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I should like to make some progress because I have let the hon. Gentleman in twice.

The hon. Lady would of course also argue that historically benefits have been very low indeed and...

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman and thank him for his intervention. I think that peopl...

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I will give way in a moment, but I should like to make a little progress on the other amendments....

Does the hon. Lady share my puzzlement that she has tabled an amendment—a principled amendment wi...

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who has encapsulated what I said in my earlier intervention and what ...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

Let me make a bit more progress.

It is worth remembering that benefits were linked to earni...

The hon. Lady stated earlier that a 1% increase in benefits is a very small increase on a very sm...

If the hon. Gentleman made a distinction between the overall benefits bill and pensions, he might...

The hon. Lady talks about reality. The reality that the country faces is that we are running a hu...

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, and yes, I can tell him how much it would co...

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The hon. Gentleman has asked me a question, so he should let me answer it; I am very happy to do ...

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I have let the hon. Gentleman intervene once, and I think that is probably enough.

The poli...

Does the hon. Lady agree, though, that the policies of extremely expensive energy that she promot...

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his attempt, but it was a bit feeble. All the evidence...

Amendment 10 stands in my name and in those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and...

Is it not the case that the 1% up-rating is for two years? It is not designed to be extended afte...

The hon. Gentleman is right that it is for two years—it is from 2014 to 2016, which is beyond the...

The Bill covers only two years, but the Government have already announced in the autumn statement...

The combined effect of both the statutory instrument and the Bill will, indeed, be for three year...

My hon. Friend makes a valid point about those who move from unemployment into temporary work and...

I agree with that point and congratulate in particular the Minister of State, Department for Work...

Before the hon. Gentleman began on his paean of praise for the Minister, I thought he was making ...

I am sure that my right hon. and hon. Friends will make up their own minds on that issue. I do no...

The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful contribution. Given what he has said, does he reject the ...

There has been a lot of selective quotation of statistics, with selective beginnings and ends of ...

My hon. Friend has suggested that people are referring to arbitrary time frames, but they are not...

One can look at it in a variety of ways. If we examined a much wider time period, say the past 20...

Will my hon. Friend acknowledge that the fiscal problem that the Government face began as a resul...

But when does the crisis end? The figures produced by the Office for Budget Responsibility estima...

It is a great pleasure to follow the thoughtful and useful contribution of the hon. Member for St...

I still have not heard what exactly the Opposition would propose to reduce the deficit. Surely th...

As Members on the Government Benches are fond of reminding us, at one point they thought that the...

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Let me just answer the point raised by the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng). We would ...

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously blaming firms such as Jessops and HMV going into administration o...

On the specific issue of whether HMV has gone bust purely as a result of the economic circumstanc...

I am following what my hon. Friend says and I absolutely agree that cuts have to be economically ...

That very important point underlines much of what I am saying. When hon. Members talk about benef...

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I would like to finish my point. I am glad that my comments have elicited so much excitement and ...

Or an MP.

—or a Member of Parliament is able to sustain small increases. There is no comparison between wha...

Has the hon. Gentleman taken into account in his figures the impact of universal credit, which wi...

We have heard a lot of talk about universal credit but we still lack a lot of the detail. Given t...

My hon. Friend is making a series of interesting points. Does he agree that the insufficient time...

That is an incredibly powerful point. My hon. Friend probably thinks—as I do—that we are being gi...

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I am pleased to see the hon. Gentleman in his place. The past two times that he has been billed t...

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for letting me intervene and I will come straight to his...

Order. Will the hon. Gentleman make his point?

I am making my point as fast as I can. My constituent has two daughters who are nurses and who ar...

Order. Will the hon. Gentleman sit down?

It is almost as though the last two minutes of my speech did not exist. I had answered the hon. G...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will take further interventions, but I would like to crack on a bit now.

The 1% increase ...

I am not sure whether my hon. Friend could hear the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) s...

My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. Perhaps Government Members’ strategy is to follow Mitt Rom...

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The hon. Gentleman is about to tell us what he will do for the 8,600 people in his constituency w...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in allowing me to intervene a second time, but the ...

The hon. Gentleman was silent on the 8,600 people in his constituency who will be worse off as a ...

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Let me make more progress before I let hon. Members intervene again.

One issue I have raise...

A thread running through the hon. Gentleman’s speech is how we help the lowest paid. Does he agre...

I welcome any measure that makes people better off, but the hon. Gentleman is entirely wrong if h...

More than 30,000 people in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency have seen their pay go up in recent ...

One point I have laboured is that hon. Members cannot compare in percentage terms the difference ...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will answer the ill-advised point made by the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) before I...

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I will crack on, because I have not taken a useful intervention from Government Members yet, and ...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will try to plough on if I may, because many hon. Members want to speak, and I sense the Opposi...

I shall be brief as we are all conscious that we are increasingly up against the clock. I followe...

The right hon. Gentleman just described his amendment as a Liberal Democrat amendment. Can he con...

From my time as leader, and indeed from reading the memoirs of previous leaders, I know that no l...

It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr Kennedy), ...

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way after her passionate outburst. Yes, of course I sha...

I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman evidently does not understand the Bill. He evidently does not ...

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I am not going to give way to the hon. Gentleman again, because other Members want to speak.

The hon. Lady talks of her concern for the poor, and it is shared by right hon. and hon. Members ...

Yes, I can. It is absolutely obvious: we were in the middle of a very deep recession, which the h...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No, I will not. The hon. Gentleman will have a chance to make his own speech. Many hon. Members h...

The hon. Lady talks about the difficult decisions the Government are having to make, but she does...

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, but the point I am trying to make is that we have to look...

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Let me ask the question before trying to answer it. We have heard that the IFS has estimated that...

I will respond very fully on the issue of child poverty, which a number of hon. Members have rais...

Yes, but the hon. Gentleman knows that his own impact assessment demonstrates that the Government...

I want to speak in support of amendment 10, to which I am a signatory. It is important to set the...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am happy to give way to any Labour Member who can tell me what their policy actually is.

I ask the hon. Gentleman to consider, in terms of what is or is not happening, that this measure ...

Well, we did not hear any policy from the hon. Lady. I can only assume that she still follows the...

Would my hon. Friend acknowledge that if we had applied the logic that he is now advocating over ...

A lot depends on where we start. If we are talking about rises matching prices or wages, it all d...

This evening’s debate on clause 1 and amendment 12, moved by my right hon. Friend the Member for ...

The hon. Gentleman mentions unity. Does he agree that if people lead their life on welfare, it is...

On this pleasant occasion, I find that I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. Let us hope that...

Given the sense of unity between us, will the hon. Gentleman endorse the coalition Government’s p...

I would not endorse that policy because, as the hon. Gentleman knows, that figure includes the tr...

Would my hon. Friend like to refer the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen)...

Yes indeed, I have seen that report, and it was scandalous. I was somewhat perplexed by the right...

The hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful contribution, as ever. He talks about fairness. Does he...

What I would certainly define as unfair is introducing a clause whose impact on the poorest 10% o...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to make his own contribution later, and t...

Does the hon. Gentleman also welcome the Scottish Government’s efforts to ensure that every 16 to...

I would welcome any measures from any tier of Government that would increase the level of trainin...

Would my hon. Friend like to point out to Government Members that, in the days when jobseeker’s a...

That is absolutely right. We also had lower levels of long-term unemployment than we have now. As...

I am grateful to be called to contribute to this Committee debate. Many of tonight’s speeches hav...

Does the hon. Gentleman not appreciate the reason why this particular Bill and its measures have ...

In my opening remarks, I made a wider point about the eurozone. This is exactly what goes to the ...

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is not just a question of welfare policies, but a question of e...

I could not have put it better myself. My hon. Friend has made an important point about employmen...

I am pleased to note that my hon. Friend ascribes efficiency and a real plan to the Labour Govern...

This is anecdotal evidence, but I was reliably informed that a couple of Liberal Democrat Members...

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for reminding the House that it is the historic mission of the Con...

It is not only fair, but common sense. The Labour cash merry-go-round, when Labour was taxing peo...

The hon. Gentleman can! I was just wondering whether he was going to tell the House that the bank...

I have my own ideas about the banking collapse, which I am happy to share with the hon. Lady—alth...

Is not the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question—which applies to people on low incomes in my c...

I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but I am talking about the position in general. It cannot ...

Would the hon. Gentleman care to comment on the fact that the International Monetary Fund has cal...

Jonathan Portes is not right. I do not think that anything he has ever written—I read his blog—ma...

Does my hon. Friend agree with my argument that what we have heard in this evening’s debate confi...

That is absolutely right.

I shall try to keep my closing remarks brief. The 1% rise in the ...

I rise to support the amendment because it is very clear: it seeks to tear the heart out of this ...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No, I am going to make a short speech. I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s interest and the wa...

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Order. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his brevity. May I remind the Committee that three ho...

Thank you, Mr Amess, for calling me to speak in this debate. I will follow your advice and try to...

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On that note, I am happy to give way to my great friend, who was unable to recommend his proposal...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is giving way with characteristic generosity. He will ac...

My friend—for he is my friend— the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) would ...

The hon. Gentleman is incredibly generous in giving way. Does he think the Bill is unconnected to...

The right hon. Gentleman, with his great experience of these matters, asks a technical question w...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am sorry, Madam, but we have no more time for further interventions—

Will my hon. Friend give way?

The hon. Lady will have to wait, and so will my hon. Friend.

I reject completely the idea o...

I start by paying tribute to the work of the Scottish Campaign on Welfare Reform, which has done ...

I apologise, Mr Amess, for persisting in seeking to speak at this late hour. I sat through the fi...

This has been a wide-ranging debate of nearly four hours. Although it has technically been about ...

The Minister will remember that it was Sir William Beveridge who used the phrase about idleness b...

It is good to hear from the true heir of Beveridge. The quotes describing the Labour party that I...

Disgraceful!

It is disgraceful, as my hon. Friend says.

The second question that has arisen is why the B...

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I will not give way; I would like to respond to what has been said in the past four hours before ...

Not at the moment, it’s not.

But that is kind of the point—not at the moment it’s not, because we have kept interest rates und...

Will the Minister give way?

Not for the moment.

We have a target for 2015-16 of £10 billion of spending reductions. We ...

As the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) and the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew Georg...

The hon. Gentleman was not listening. The point about establishing a long-term fiscal framework i...

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No, sit down. We need credibility for the long term.

On a point of order, Mr Amess. The Minister is misquoting me, so let me clarify this. I said that...

That is not a point of order—it is a point of debate.

Amendment 12 is simply a vacuum that could insert anything—

Will my hon. Friend give way?

I will not for the moment, because my hon. Friend has joined our proceedings relatively recently....

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Let me respond a little further. The hon. Lady said that we should choose RPI because, essentiall...

The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) addressed the fact that RPI is not a perfect ...

If it were trivial to raise £100 billion from the filthy rich, I suspect that most Governments wo...

Leaving aside the wisdom or otherwise of committing ourselves to the Government’s proposed up-rat...

I can tell my hon. Friend that we have his ex-constituent in Greece in our sights. All I can say ...

As my hon. Friend has said, the Government have made a difficult decision to deal with the matter...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to remind the Committee of that. We have made our commitment t...

Is the Minister aware that in the city that I represent, which also happens to be the birthplace ...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning the position of low-paid workers. People on the mi...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Opposition’s policy of not having a policy runs the risk of pu...

My hon. Friend is quite right. There is nothing progressive about vast borrowing, because then we...

Is not the reality that we have already had all the welfare reforms, and the only reason we are d...

It is, I suppose, possible that had Labour won the last election the eurozone crisis might never ...

As the Minister knows very well, my question was this: what are his figures on absolute poverty?<...

The hon. Lady will know perfectly well that the Labour Government never forecast poverty rates. S...

We have had an interesting debate. The right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr Kennedy)...

Will the Serjeant at Arms investigate the Aye Lobby? We seem to have a hold-up or a blockage of s...

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether consideration could be given to how our ...

I understand the hon. Lady’s frustration, but the amount of time given was agreed by the House on...

Further to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. As the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caro...

That was, in fact, the same point of order. Again, I understand the frustration that is felt, but...

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The Bill moves into its Third Read...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

No, I am going to make a little progress now, although I will give way later. I recognise that so...

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I said that I would make a little progress and then give way. I wish to make one point, which is ...

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I said I would give way, so I will give way to the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (...

Over the past month or two, as the Secretary of State has warmed up the debate for tonight’s Bill...

I have said all along that I do not doubt that at the beginning the intention was to try to impro...

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I will not give way. Progress on tackling child poverty stalled, and the previous Government miss...

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No, I will not give way yet. From 2004 until the last election the previous Government spent £171...

Some 200,000 children will be pushed into poverty as a result of this uprating measure, according...

Let me put the figures in the round within the period of spending review. My hon. Friend the Mini...

The Secretary of State knows that the Liberal Democrats are not comfortable about this sort of Bi...

That is my genuine intention. My right hon. Friend will know that his hon. Friend the Minister of...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

I want to make a little progress before I give way again.

We need to remind ourselves that ...

Will the Secretary of State give way?

I shall give way in a second, but I want to make a little more progress.

Let me deal with t...

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Before I give way, let me give some examples. The Opposition opposed the Welfare Reform Bill, and...

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. We have said that contributory employment...

I wonder why I bothered to give way to the right hon. Gentleman. Every one of those statements wa...

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I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but first I want to deal with some of the claims that the ...

In York there is a particularly large gap between private sector rents and the levels of housing ...

We are always analysing what we are doing with local housing allowance and housing benefit genera...

I rise to oppose Third Reading. I have not been in the House for as long as the Secretary of Stat...

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it makes much more sense to uprate by inflation in this Parl...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that it would make sense to uprate in line with inflation for ...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No. Given the hon. Gentleman’s support for a programme motion that has given me six minutes to re...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No, there is too little time.

It is a disgrace that this Bill is being rammed through the H...