UK Parliament / Open data

European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 27 November 2012, in the House of Commons, led by David Nuttall. The answering member was Emma Reynolds.
New clauses agreed to with amendments withdrawn. Bill read the third time and passed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
554 cc145-196 
Session
2012-13
Legislative stage
Committee stage, Third reading and Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill 2012-13.
Thursday, 18 October 2012
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
David Nuttall | 554 c145 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 6, in page 1, line 7, after ‘approved’, insert

‘, except for those ...

Angus Robertson | 554 c145 (Link to this contribution)

I lived in central Europe for some time. When this matter was last discussed, I asked whether the...


Show all contributions (132)
David Nuttall | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

I will deal with that point more fully later in my speech, but let me respond to it briefly now. ...

Keith Vaz | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

David Nuttall | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I will certainly give way to the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee.

Keith Vaz | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

Under the Government’s proposals, Croatian citizens will be in exactly the same position as citiz...

David Nuttall | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I will come to that point later in my speech, but, again, I will respond to it briefly. We...

Martin Horwood | 554 c146 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is talking about the risks, but of course there are opportunities as well. Is ...

David Nuttall | 554 cc146-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure you would not wish me to be drawn off the subject of Croatia, Madam Deputy Speaker. My ...

Jim Shannon | 554 c147 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree—perhaps he does not—that Croatia has the potential to be a tourist ...

David Nuttall | 554 c147 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman may well be right that lots of UK nationals will want to visit Croatia. All th...

Angus Robertson | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman concede that the most widely spoken second language among Croatians who h...

David Nuttall | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether that is true or not, because I do not know the respective numbers. Even if ...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

If I understand the hon. Gentleman properly, he is talking about what will happen after the seven...

David Nuttall | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a valid point. The position at the end of the seven-year transitional period ...

Angus Robertson | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has looked at the subject very closely so I am sure he will have considered th...

David Nuttall | 554 c148 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. There might be a sudden upswing in Croatia’s economy. Howe...

Keith Vaz | 554 c149 (Link to this contribution)

I am not clear about the hon. Gentleman’s arguments. Is he suggesting a further transitional peri...

David Nuttall | 554 c149 (Link to this contribution)

My view is that the Government could negotiate a different set of criteria, which might involve a...

Wayne David | 554 c149 (Link to this contribution)

To be clear on the implications of the amendment, if it were passed, does the hon. Gentleman agre...

David Nuttall | 554 c149 (Link to this contribution)

One can only surmise that that might be the case; I have no doubt that our European neighbours mi...

David Nuttall | 554 cc149-150 (Link to this contribution)

No.

A fact that is as worrying as the difference between the comparative present wealth—I a...

Martin Horwood | 554 c150 (Link to this contribution)

Once again, the hon. Gentleman seems to assume that the traffic will be entirely one way and to b...

David Nuttall | 554 c150 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a fair point and I have no wish to do anything to prevent UK nationals from ...

Keith Vaz | 554 cc150-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall). All his speeches on EU ma...

Russell Brown | 554 c152 (Link to this contribution)

As I have pointed out on a number of occasions, in around 2008-09 the largest group of people who...

Keith Vaz | 554 c152 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely.

To say that there are no skills shortages in this country in the sectors ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c152 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is a little odd that the about-to-be Governor of ...

Keith Vaz | 554 c153 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman raises that point, because I understand that the new Governor o...

Wayne David | 554 c153 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with the point my right hon. Friend is making, as he knows, but I think that we...

Keith Vaz | 554 c154 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, who had a distinguished career as a Member of the European Parliament, is absolut...

Emma Reynolds | 554 cc154-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz). ...

Angus Robertson | 554 c155 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady agree that it would be helpful if the Minister clarified, perhaps on the basis...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c155 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree more. It would be useful if the Minister gave us the exact legal advice on the ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c155 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to disagree with the hon. Lady, but I remind her that the Bill includes the protocol f...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c156 (Link to this contribution)

I respectfully disagree with the hon. Gentleman. The accession treaty with Croatia has been negot...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c156 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way again, because this is an important point that is w...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c156 (Link to this contribution)

There is no clear precedent with regard to the accession of new member states. I believe that suc...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c156 (Link to this contribution)

I have my hon. Friends, obviously, whose help and advice are always most welcome.

I look fo...

David Lidington | 554 cc156-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) for tabling the amendment. He was p...

Graham Stringer | 554 c157 (Link to this contribution)

Is that not the real issue? The reports from the European Commission that we have before us are f...

David Lidington | 554 c157 (Link to this contribution)

It will be for the European Scrutiny Committee to choose whether to refer the Commission’s third ...

Graham Stringer | 554 c157 (Link to this contribution)

Could the right hon. Gentleman clear up a matter of fact? The House of Commons research paper sta...

David Lidington | 554 cc157-8 (Link to this contribution)

We debated this at some length on Second Reading, but I will take advice and might give a detaile...

Bob Stewart | 554 c158 (Link to this contribution)

I hope the Committee will forgive me if this has been covered in earlier debates when I was not p...

David Lidington | 554 c158 (Link to this contribution)

I am not certain about the position of the International Criminal Court, but I will either respon...

Angus Robertson | 554 c158 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps it would be helpful if I followed up on the intervention by the hon. Member for Beckenham...

David Lidington | 554 cc158-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to get drawn into a further debate about the 2014 opt-in, opt-out decision on just...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc159-160 (Link to this contribution)

Applying the amendment to line 7 on page 1 of the Bill would make it say that the accession treat...

David Lidington | 554 c160 (Link to this contribution)

I simply do not think that we can have 27 countries agreeing unanimously on a treaty text and com...

Wayne David | 554 c160 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has made an important point. He should not hide his light under a bushel. I urge him...

David Lidington | 554 c160 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friends know where I stand on these issues. We always have a good-tempered but serious de...

David Lidington | 554 cc160-1 (Link to this contribution)

Possibly by millions of people, in every constituency in this country. It is right that Parliamen...

David Nuttall | 554 c161 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a useful and interesting debate on the amendment. I thank the right hon. Member for L...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c161 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm whether any of his constituents have written or spoken to him to ...

David Nuttall | 554 cc161-2 (Link to this contribution)

No, they have not. However, I often receive representations about immigration in general and diff...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc162-3 (Link to this contribution)

This is a crucial clause because of what it shows about the potential of our relationship with th...

Martin Horwood | 554 c163 (Link to this contribution)

The original intention was to have a Czech protocol at the same time as the Irish protocol, but t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c163 (Link to this contribution)

I wish my hon. Friend would have more confidence in his own great country. We are a little bigger...

Bob Stewart | 554 c163 (Link to this contribution)

Would we make an increased contribution to the European Union budget as a result of Croatian acce...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c163 (Link to this contribution)

I was hoping to come to that when we discuss the point at which the Bill comes into force, and it...

Graham Stringer | 554 c164 (Link to this contribution)

I often agree with the hon. Gentleman, but I do not today. These protocols are Euro-fudge and wha...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c164 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely sympathetic to what the hon. Gentleman says and I may be too optimistic about what...

Emma Reynolds | 554 cc164-5 (Link to this contribution)

I want to reiterate what I said on Second Reading about the Opposition’s support for the Irish pr...

David Lidington | 554 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 2 provides parliamentary approval for the purposes of section 2 of the European Union Act ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister therefore help me? If two cases appear before the ECJ—one for the UK; one for I...

David Lidington | 554 c166 (Link to this contribution)

No, the treaties apply equally to every member state unless an explicit derogation or opt-out is ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c166 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is a mind reader—that was exactly the point I was about to ask him about. Does the p...

David Lidington | 554 c166 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, that clarification is of benefit to every member state, should such litigation be necessary ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc166-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to trouble the scorers again, Mr Crausby. I hope I will not be the only one trying to ...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c167 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 4 provides a regulation-making power to make provision on the entitlement of Croatian work...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 554 c167 (Link to this contribution)

The clause is all about workers. When the hon. Lady’s party was in Government, it also allowed tr...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c168 (Link to this contribution)

The previous Government looked at this issue, and the current Government have also tried to raise...

David Lidington | 554 c168 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 4 outlines, in its various subsections, how the transitional regulations will be structure...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

The example that springs to mind is of people working here while their children remain in their o...

David Lidington | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right that those things undermine confidence in the system, despite the fact th...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interject, but as Labour seems to recognise this concern—such recognition has been ...

David Lidington | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

The Government are always willing to listen to constructive ideas, from whichever side of the Hou...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

Just for the record, as I set out earlier, what the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris...

David Crausby | 554 c169 (Link to this contribution)

Order. It would be nice if we could get back to clause 4 stand part.

David Lidington | 554 cc169-170 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, Mr Crausby. I welcome the outbreak of bipartisanship.

Finally, one of the lessons i...

Mark Durkan | 554 c170 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way, as I know he wants to conclude. He said he did not want to g...

David Lidington | 554 c170 (Link to this contribution)

This boils down to differences in the legal systems operating in different parts of the United Ki...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c170 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 1, page 4, line 4, at end insert ‘or subsequent’.

David Crausby | 554 cc170-1 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 5, page 4, line 7, at end ins...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c171 (Link to this contribution)

Amendments 1 and 2 are straightforward. I am sure that Her Majesty’s Government, in their amazing...

Martin Horwood | 554 c171 (Link to this contribution)

The de Montfort family were, of course, European migrants.

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc171-2 (Link to this contribution)

I hoped that the hon. Gentleman was going to find some link between the de Montforts and Somerset...

David Nuttall | 554 c172 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.

My amendment 5 is also a min...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c172 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that the hon. Members for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) and for Bury North (...

David Lidington | 554 cc172-3 (Link to this contribution)

The purpose of amendments 1 and 2 is to require that any regulations to implement the transitiona...

David Lidington | 554 cc173-4 (Link to this contribution)

I would not impute that to my hon. Friend, but I was conscious of the fact that Simon de Montfort...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc174-5 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened to the Minister with great care. The problem with comparing anybody to the great ...

David Nuttall | 554 c175 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 4, in clause 6, page 4, line 15, leave out subsection (2) and insert—

...
John Bercow | 554 c175 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the Question that clause 6 stand part of the Bill.

...
David Nuttall | 554 cc175-6 (Link to this contribution)

This will be the last amendment to be discussed in Committee. It would enable the House to revisi...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc176-8 (Link to this contribution)

I think the amendment is excellent, worthy of the whole Committee’s support. Although enlargement...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 554 c177 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a strong case for changing the way in which we deal with a country’s acc...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc177-9 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is entirely right. It is important to set a precedent in this instance. I do not u...

Wayne David | 554 cc179-180 (Link to this contribution)

This is an important amendment, and it is right for it to be discussed properly. As has already b...

Emma Reynolds | 554 c180 (Link to this contribution)

The accession process for Croatia has certainly been more rigorous and demanding than those for p...

David Lidington | 554 cc181-3 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 6(1) makes provision for the territorial extent of the Bill. It extends to the whole of th...

Graham Stringer | 554 c184 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister concludes, will he answer my question about the security of the border with B...

David Crausby | 554 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I think that relates much more to Third Reading, when the Minister will have an opportunity to de...

David Lidington | 554 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that guidance, Mr Crausby. I have some details on that matter and will be happy...

David Nuttall | 554 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened carefully to the Minister and to the debate. I must say that if Croatia is as rea...

David Lidington | 554 cc184-5 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I thank all right hon. and hon. Me...

Henry Smith | 554 c185 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that Croatia should have had to face a very high test to...

David Lidington | 554 cc185-7 (Link to this contribution)

When I talk to Bulgarian and Romanian Ministers, they are the first to say that the current situa...

Emma Reynolds | 554 cc187-8 (Link to this contribution)

As I said on Second Reading, the Opposition welcome the Bill and support the accession of Croatia...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 cc188-190 (Link to this contribution)

May I begin by reciprocating the kind thanks from my right hon. Friend the Minister? When debatin...

Wayne David | 554 cc190-1 (Link to this contribution)

In these times when the EU is strongly criticised in this Chamber and more often outside—sometime...

Martin Horwood | 554 c191 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the Minister and his team on shepherding this small but potentially tricky Bill th...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c192 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is being too modern. I was comparing it with the Yugoslavia of Tito.

Martin Horwood | 554 c192 (Link to this contribution)

Okay, but the violence broke out some time after Tito’s death. It was the explosion of nationalis...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 554 c192 (Link to this contribution)

That is the whole point. The fact that Tito enforced a false union that people did not want led t...

Martin Horwood | 554 c192 (Link to this contribution)

At the risk of deviating into a discussion about Croatian history, I would say that some of the n...

Bob Stewart | 554 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I support the hon. Gentleman absolutely on that point. There are still people living in Croatia w...

Martin Horwood | 554 c193 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. and gallant Gentleman makes an important point of which he obviously has expert knowledg...

Graham Stringer | 554 cc193-4 (Link to this contribution)

Like the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), I rise with unexpected and partic...

Nigel Evans | 554 c194 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I have given the hon. Gentleman some latitude, but it would be useful if he mentioned Croa...

Graham Stringer | 554 cc194-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker.

In looking at what was happening genera...

Andrew Bridgen | 554 c195 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-...

Graham Stringer | 554 cc195-6 (Link to this contribution)

I bow to the hon. Gentleman’s greater knowledge of the Carlton club than I have or am ever likely...

Nigel Evans | 554 c196 (Link to this contribution)

I do not need to declare my membership of the Carlton club, but I feel I should.

Question p...

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