Public Bodies Bill [Lords] (Programme) (No. 2)

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 25 October 2011, in the House of Commons, led by David Heath.

Public Bodies (HL) Bill. Programme motion (No. 2) on proceedings on Report and Third reading. Agreed to on question. Report stage debate. New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 2 to 4, debated and all added to the Bill. New clause 7, discussed with new clauses 8 and 9, debated and withdrawn. New clause 11, discussed with new clause 12, debated and withdrawn. Some amendments made. Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (300 votes to 224). Bill read the third time and passed with amendments.[Relevant documents: The Fifth Report from the Public Administration Select Committee, Smaller Government: Shrinking the Quango State, HC 537, and the Government response, Cm 8044.]

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

534 c181-286

Session

2010-12

Department

Leader of the House of Commons

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

Programme motions
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Public Bodies bill (HL). As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 11 October 2011
Bills
House of Commons

Smaller government: shrinking the quango state. Government response to the Public Administration Select Committee's fifth report of session 2010-11. (HC 537).
Wednesday, 16 March 2011
Command papers
House of Commons

Smaller government: shrinking the quango state. Public Administration Select Committee fifth report with formal minutes, evidence and appendices. Additional written evidence is contained in Volume II, available on the Committee website.
Monday, 20 December 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Bob Ainsworth | 534 c254 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) has a point, but it is not the poor coroners, of whom th...

Simon Hughes | 534 c235 (Link to this contribution) I am encouraged by the Minister's commitment and by his clear belief that his model will work. May I...

Show all contributions (252)

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c260 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman does not mind, I do not have much time and I must proceed. I want to re...

David Anderson | 534 c211 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend also agree that the hon. Gentleman was correct when he was quoted on 11 November...

Nia Griffith | 534 c215 (Link to this contribution) The Agricultural Wages Board sets standard rates of pay for 12,000 agricultural workers in Wales and...

James Paice | 534 c218 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the worker will negotiate with his putative new employer. [Interruption.] I will be more ob...

Charlie Elphicke | 534 c185 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that helpful intervention. As so often happens, he sparkles in the Ch...

Nick Hurd | 534 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) This is a long list of amendments, but I hope we can deal with it quickly, as I sense that the mood ...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c257 (Link to this contribution) I would disagree with that. I had meetings with them together as well as separately. It is true that...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) Youth justice is an extremely important issue and these points have to be put properly on the record...

Speaker | 534 c238 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby. The House having divided: Ayes...

Jonathan Edwards | 534 c207 (Link to this contribution) To my knowledge, agriculture is the only industrial sector in which there have been no large industr...

Jon Trickett | 534 c275-7 (Link to this contribution) It is good to see you back in the Chair, Mr Speaker. I add my own thanks to the Clerks and Committee...

Valerie Vaz | 534 c186 (Link to this contribution) May I add my voice to those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dob...

Nick Hurd | 534 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) In large part these measures are designed to make existing flexible arrangements clearer, precisely ...

Lord Beith | 534 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) The Justice Committee has on two occasions—in its present and previous form—published reports dedica...

Robert Flello | 534 c263 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Beith | 534 c263 (Link to this contribution) I will not, as I want to be brief in order to allow another Member to speak in the time that remains...

Bob Ainsworth | 534 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) The most telling intervention on the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who moved the a...

Lord Maude of Horsham | 534 c271 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. It is now slightly more than a year since ...

Alun Michael | 534 c271 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister acknowledge that there is real concern about the abolition of the Youth Justice Bo...

Lord Maude of Horsham | 534 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the right hon. Gentleman says, and I know that he has been hugely involved in the matter...

Andrew George | 534 c272 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that he did not expect absolute agreement in every case that is identified in the ...

Robert Flello | 534 c262 (Link to this contribution) On that point, will my hon. Friend give way?

Gordon Marsden | 534 c262 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I will not. The great military and diplomatic historian Garrett Mattingly said that...

Jon Trickett | 534 c277 (Link to this contribution) What I will say about S4C is that we tabled our amendment and we made our position clear both in tha...

Speaker | 534 c277 (Link to this contribution) Order. Seven Members are trying to catch my eye, and the arithmetic is not encouraging, although a s...

Jonathan Edwards | 534 c277 (Link to this contribution) My colleagues were delighted to see the Labour amendment on S4C. Will the hon. Gentleman confirm tha...

Mark Williams | 534 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that comment. As he is aware, the Select Committee on Welsh Aff...

Mark Williams | 534 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief, but there are some important points that need to be made. First, I follow the Oppos...

Alun Michael | 534 c278 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. It is important that Ministers continue ...

Simon Hughes | 534 c273 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's last point was important and well made. If the Bill receives Third Reading, will it b...

Lord Maude of Horsham | 534 c273-5 (Link to this contribution) That is an extremely helpful suggestion, and I will undertake that we do that. This is not the end o...

Lord Maude of Horsham | 534 c272 (Link to this contribution) I hear what my hon. Friend says, and he will have heard what my right hon. Friend the Minister of St...

Frank Dobson | 534 c282 (Link to this contribution) I endorse everything that my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) said. It is a gr...

Guto Bebb | 534 c279 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that this morning's agreement between S4C and the BBC has guaranteed a six-year f...

Mark Williams | 534 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) I ask my hon. Friend to examine the justification given some 15 years ago by the Conservative Minist...

Jonathan Ashworth | 534 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak on Third Reading. I was privileged enough to sit on the Bill Committee and...

Valerie Vaz | 534 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to all hon. Members, including Ministers, who served on the Bill Committee. Members wi...

Bob Ainsworth | 534 c251 (Link to this contribution) I was responsible for the establishment of the DIU in an attempt to improve the service that we gave...

Andrew Percy | 534 c251-3 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has much more expertise in this area than I do. His powerful comments will ...

Michael Dugher | 534 c253 (Link to this contribution) I would like to begin by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) on his...

Robert Flello | 534 c253 (Link to this contribution) It is also important to add to the list the Marchioness Action Group, the stillbirth and neonatal de...

Madeleine Moon | 534 c251 (Link to this contribution) I too was a member of the Committee considering the Coroners and Justice Bill, and I support the hon...

Andrew Percy | 534 c251 (Link to this contribution) One of the most important tasks of the chief coroner would have been supplying an annual report to P...

Madeleine Moon | 534 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) There is also inconsistency in the willingness of coroners to collaborate with academic research, wh...

Michael Dugher | 534 c253 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend adds to the list, and a written answer from the Ministry of Justice to my hon. Friend...

Bob Stewart | 534 c254 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly worried. I like the idea of having independent coroners, and I do not like the idea of...

Michael Dugher | 534 c254 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Before the recent legislation, review after review into the c...

Andrew Percy | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a point that I was coming to. We have not identified where the savings co...

Lord Beamish | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) I was a member of the Committee that considered the Coroners and Justice Bill, and I remember that i...

Andrew Percy | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) It is always easy to concentrate on the emotive issues in debates like this, and it can be very powe...

Lord Beith | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend recognise that it would be possible to have a chief coroner who could provide pr...

Jim Shannon | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman would agree that the families are most important. The families need to ...

Andrew Percy | 534 c251 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Lady, who has a great deal of experience in this area.

Madeleine Moon | 534 c250 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Andrew Percy | 534 c250 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is tempting me down a path on which I should probably not embark, but I repeat th...

Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 534 c250 (Link to this contribution) If the three Front Benches were indeed in agreement in Committee, what has happened since to turn th...

Andrew Percy | 534 c250 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has pre-empted another stage of my speech. Although I was not here at the time, p...

Mark Durkan | 534 c257 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister not aware from his meetings with the various groups that have been mentioned that th...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) I have not come away with that impression when I have met those organisations. Let me set out plain...

Madeleine Moon | 534 c258 (Link to this contribution) I served on the Committee that considered the Coroners and Justice Bill, and one of the things that ...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c258 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is very involved with coroners. We have had several meetings on coroners. She is dedic...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c258 (Link to this contribution) Let me move on, otherwise I shall not get through. Under the proposals announced to Parliament on 1...

Paul Goggins | 534 c259 (Link to this contribution) The Government are making a huge mistake. The sooner the Minister realises that the better. He has b...

Lord Beith | 534 c259 (Link to this contribution) One of the concerns of the Justice Committee has been about the uncertain and widely differing arran...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c259 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to the costings and explain why the costings provided by the last Government were cor...

Michael Dugher | 534 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend, who was an extremely good Secretary of State for Defence and did so much work ...

Michael Dugher | 534 c254 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that I have the utmost respect for him and especially for the distinguished...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c256 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) for initiating this important d...

Lord Beamish | 534 c256 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree with the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Reigate (...

James Gray | 534 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) I tend to agree with the general argument that the hon. Gentleman is making but I am not certain tha...

Michael Dugher | 534 c256 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right and he makes a powerful case for our argument. It is the inconsistency o...

Robert Flello | 534 c257 (Link to this contribution) After the disgraceful comments of the Minister's colleague, who said, ““These people are a disgrace,...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) We are all aware of the importance of the issue and the outcome of this debate has the potential to ...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c233 (Link to this contribution) The Justice Secretary has announced that John Drew, the chief executive of the Youth Justice Board, ...

Simon Hughes | 534 c233 (Link to this contribution) I am encouraged by what the Minister has said so far. Will the head of the new division proposed by ...

Paul Goggins | 534 c235 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the Minister is utterly sincere in his commitment to the rehabilitation revolution an...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c235 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman has identified, we are entering a period when that may well happen. I wi...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my right hon. Friend's advice. It is a fair point and one that was laboured, quite...

Robert Flello | 534 c234 (Link to this contribution) I want to take the Minister back to the answer he gave the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old ...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c234 (Link to this contribution) I have instituted arrangements within the Department during this transitional period for the chief e...

Lord Beith | 534 c234 (Link to this contribution) I want my hon. Friend to make it quite clear that he is not stepping back from his welcome indicatio...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c234 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give my right hon. Friend that assurance. It would be quixotic to say now that it is a...

Lord Beith | 534 c225 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has a very good record both in the work that he did as a Minister and in th...

Paul Goggins | 534 c229 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned the reduction in the number of young people in custody. I am sure that he i...

Robert Flello | 534 c229-31 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend. The whole case for cost savings does not stack up in the...

Andy Slaughter | 534 c229 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that time will not allow me to make a speech about this matter. I had the privilege of ho...

Robert Flello | 534 c229 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes his point extremely well. If we had had a proper amount o...

Simon Hughes | 534 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to say a few words, following what my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Si...

Robert Flello | 534 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) The Youth Justice Board has played a central role in reducing the number of criminal offences commit...

Alun Michael | 534 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) The point I made, and the point that is made by the Magistrates Association and by chief police offi...

Lord Beith | 534 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) The Justice Committee has taken a close interest in this matter, as it did when the right hon. Membe...

Crispin Blunt | 534 c231-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to reply to this debate, not least to the right hon. Member for Cardiff South and P...

Bob Stewart | 534 c247 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure what that means. Does my hon. Friend mean to say that independent coroners do no...

Andrew Percy | 534 c247 (Link to this contribution) I do, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support. We all want to honour the military covenant; t...

Paul Goggins | 534 c248 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his amendment. He rightly emphasises its significance for...

Andrew Percy | 534 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. and gallant Friend for that intervention, as it demonstrates why the Government's po...

Andrew Percy | 534 c248 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman, who has pre-empted part of my speech, which the House will be plea...

Robert Flello | 534 c248 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is putting his case well. On that point about costings, does he know that the Roy...

Andrew Percy | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get into too much of a political spat, particularly when I am speaking from the Gov...

Andrew Percy | 534 c249 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friends, but then I am going to make some progress.

Alun Michael | 534 c238 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been seduced by office into bad decisions, but in the best interests of securing a ...

Sian C James | 534 c237 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that none of the Whips has said a word so far. Is this a deliberate attempt to talk out ...

Speaker | 534 c246 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that notification.

Charlie Elphicke | 534 c246 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I say, on behalf of the people of Dover, how ...

Nick Hurd | 534 c246 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. It would be helpful to inform that House that, having consid...

David Wright | 534 c247 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly support the hon. Gentleman's amendment and congratulate him on tabling it. Does he ...

Speaker | 534 c246 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. I call Andrew Percy to move amendment 2.

Andrew Percy | 534 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 2, page 24, in schedule 5, leave out lines 9 and 10. In the past few days, ...

Gordon Marsden | 534 c262 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way because of the lack of time. That is one of the issues that is at the heart...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the board will be there to address policy issues such as those that my right hon. Friend mentio...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I can get back to my hon. Friend on that. I will write to him. I do not have the figures to hand. I...

Andrew Percy | 534 c260 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell me how much his Department spent on consultants in the past year?

Charlie Elphicke | 534 c262 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Gordon Marsden | 534 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to place on record, adding to what has been said already, my admiration for the speech of the...

Jonathan Djanogly | 534 c260 (Link to this contribution) We would expect that to be the situation because we would expect the Lord Chief Justice, who would b...

Simon Hughes | 534 c260 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully because I, like others, need some persuasion. Why would it not be possible,...

Alun Michael | 534 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to be able to defend the Youth Justice Board, which was established by the Crime a...

Speaker | 534 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 12—Youth Justice in Wales—

Alun Michael | 534 c223 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Andrew George | 534 c223 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious that we have still to debate the Youth Justice Board and S4C, so I will not detain th...

James Paice | 534 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) The House will have heard the hon. Lady's apology. If new clauses 8 and 9 were agreed to, we would ...

Mary Creagh | 534 c222 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I want to apologise for misleading the House earlie...

James Paice | 534 c222 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to debate that matter with the hon. Lady outside. [Interruption.] I do not have the docum...

Mary Creagh | 534 c221 (Link to this contribution) I have seen a DEFRA impact assessment, which says that the cumulative impact of holiday pay and redu...

James Paice | 534 c221 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is mixing his figures. Nobody is disputing £270,000-odd as the annual cost of run...

David Anderson | 534 c221 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister telling the House that the measure will cost workers £9 million, when the AWB cost o...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c211 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, and I also agree with the hon. Gentleman, as his peroration was, in fac...

Andrew George | 534 c211 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of my new clause is to achieve the Government objective of saving money by doing away wi...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c212 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's comments highlight the difference between our positions, as I do not think his ...

Tom Blenkinsop | 534 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendments 32 and 39, and I do so as a rural trade unionist and a rural Labour MP...

Lord Beamish | 534 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) I am getting a little concerned for the health of the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) becaus...

David Wright | 534 c214 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that my hon. Friend has talked about agricultural workers, because this is not solely...

Jonathan Ashworth | 534 c214-5 (Link to this contribution) I will speak briefly, as I am conscious of the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardi...

Lord Beamish | 534 c214 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point; places such as Telford are surrounded by large rural areas. ...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c206 (Link to this contribution) He does not—perhaps a glaring example of what the reality will look like. My second example is Stev...

David Wright | 534 c206 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is talking about wages being gradually eroded, but the wages of the 40,000-plus casua...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) On this occasion, I do not agree with the National Farmers Union. As I have said, we consulted widel...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 534 c207 (Link to this contribution) Might not the National Farmers Union give a different answer if the Government were to address the q...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c206 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is precisely the concern being expressed by many people.

Stephen Mosley | 534 c206 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the NFU, which has stated:"““Claims that farm workers will suffer...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c209-11 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for calling me, Madam Deputy Speaker. I did not expect to be called so soon—I expected a G...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c207-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is undoubtedly right on this occasion. It is also worth noting that many small fa...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c207 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Indeed, I hope that he will catch your eye later, Madam De...

Andrew George | 534 c203 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for acknowledging that the very distinctive region of Cornwall d...

Gavin Shuker | 534 c203 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being extremely generous with interventions—I appreciate it. The hon. Gentlem...

Andrew George | 534 c204 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments, and perhaps I need to move on to the CRC, beca...

Alun Michael | 534 c205 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of respect for the hon. Gentleman's expertise, and as a former rural affairs Min...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c203 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is actually making some good points in defence of Labour's amendment 32, not his ...

James Paice | 534 c206 (Link to this contribution) indicated dissent.

Gareth Thomas | 534 c205 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendment 32, which is in my name and that of my right hon. and hon. Friends, and...

Andrew George | 534 c205 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that comment. I have been too generous in taking inter...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, emphasising the one that I made about how it is surprising that s...

Lord Beamish | 534 c205 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend think it rather ironic that although the Conservative party claims to be the pro...

Lord Mann | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) I asked if the Liberals get it.

Andrew George | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) Whether I get it is a matter for the hon. Gentleman to judge and for me to emphasise that of course ...

Lord Mann | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cited the Chancellor's saying that we are all in it together. Do the Liberals not...

Andrew George | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made a fair point; I think he wanted to make a flourish with it. If he does n...

Andrew George | 534 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for making that point. The initial defence that Ministers ...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 534 c202 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Gentleman, I have been looking at the Minister's face, and a quizzical look did appear...

Andrew George | 534 c202 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that important point. We are part of a United Kingdom...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c202 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman that many farmers welcome the stability that is given them in their ...

Andrew George | 534 c202 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I must admit that I am not fully aware of such surveys. As I sa...

Gavin Shuker | 534 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a series of good points about the retention of the AWB. However, his ho...

Simon Hughes | 534 c199 (Link to this contribution) I represent one of the most urban constituencies, but I was brought up in some of the most rural one...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 534 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) The last time the Liberals were in power they established the protection for agricultural workers. I...

Andrew George | 534 c199 (Link to this contribution) I did not answer the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), the Opposition spokesman, who asked wh...

Andrew George | 534 c200 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which follows the theme of others in...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 534 c200 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that the protections are important, and for the 12,000 agricultural workers...

Andrew George | 534 c200 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. There is a significant argument between his Front-Bench...

Lord Mann | 534 c200 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Andrew George | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. Agricultural workers may have broad shoulders physically, but not in negotiations with...

Stephen Mosley | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making some good proposals, but why should agricultural workers and businesses...

Andrew George | 534 c201 (Link to this contribution) I fully acknowledge that the NFU not only strongly supports the Government's proposals but perhaps d...

Andrew George | 534 c197 (Link to this contribution) I was going to remind the House that the proposal to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board was in the...

David Anderson | 534 c197 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman explain to the House whether he is speaking on his own behalf or whether tha...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c198 (Link to this contribution) As a compromise, does new clause 7 weaken in any way the protections for agricultural workers? If so...

Andrew George | 534 c198 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his research, but it must be incorrect because I was not in the...

Lord Beamish | 534 c197 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that the hon. Gentleman and the Liberal Democrats have not been consulted about t...

Andrew George | 534 c198 (Link to this contribution) It is up to the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on the very Back Bench of the Labour party to cons...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c199 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman rightly corrected me: it was in 2000, but I was completely accurate in what I was...

Andrew George | 534 c199 (Link to this contribution) I agree. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his correction. I was here then and it is for the h...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c198 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he has had discussions with the Low Pay Commission on his proposal. In ...

Andrew George | 534 c198 (Link to this contribution) I see that the demeanour adopted by those on the Back Benches is being adopted by those on the Front...

Jon Trickett | 534 c192 (Link to this contribution) We very much welcome these new clauses, which were amendments that we proposed at the time and the M...

Andrew George | 534 c197 (Link to this contribution) I notice that amendment 32 tabled by the hon. Gentleman's colleagues proposes to delete the referenc...

Andrew George | 534 c196 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 534 c196 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 8—Office of Rural Affairs—

Andrew George | 534 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the previous debate, which was rather more truncated than I was expecting...

David Wright | 534 c197 (Link to this contribution) Would it not be simpler to remove the Agricultural Wages Board from the list? Rather than coming up ...

Nick Hurd | 534 c192-3 (Link to this contribution) Charities do fall within the scope of the Bill as far as we are concerned. The hon. Gentleman will b...

Nia Griffith | 534 c193 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain exactly what consultation he has had with Welsh Government Ministers on th...

Nick Hurd | 534 c193 (Link to this contribution) I understand that those consultations have been extensive and I do not think there has been any real...

Nia Griffith | 534 c193-4 (Link to this contribution) First, it must be said that the Opposition have been dismayed at the way in which the Government hav...

Lord Beamish | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just referred to agricultural wages being gold-plated. What does he consider to be ...

James Paice | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman does not seem to grasp that, if someone decides to change their job in the future...

James Paice | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) I was referring to the wages order, not the wages themselves. The Agricultural Wages Board structure...

James Paice | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) No; I will make some progress. I, too, heard the right hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Al...

Gavin Shuker | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

James Paice | 534 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) For once, I agree with whoever is shouting from a sedentary position. Of course no Minister can guar...

Andrew George | 534 c220 (Link to this contribution) I very much respect the Minister's judgment. He argues that the Agricultural Wages Board represents ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being generous in giving way, but may I probe him again on my previous question, bec...

James Paice | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) It will not necessarily go down; it will react to the state of affairs.

Gareth Thomas | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) Pay will go down.

James Paice | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) Anyone in a post at the moment is protected by their contract of employment. Anyone who changes jobs...

Gareth Thomas | 534 c219 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that there is a whole series of new, modern employment protections. I ask him agai...

James Paice | 534 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, but I will make a little progress first. I need to emphasise that this is not some...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c218 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Gareth Thomas | 534 c218 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify something that he said? If an existing worker moves to a different job aft...

James Paice | 534 c218 (Link to this contribution) All workers will have exactly the same entitlements as they currently have. Other hon. Members have ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c218 (Link to this contribution) I want to shed some light, rather than heat. Of course, one of the Agricultural Wages Board's functi...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

James Paice | 534 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman because I respect his integrity and his contribution on these ...

James Paice | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) The market is what will affect wages. That is the reality of how wages are set in every other—[Inter...

Lord Beamish | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I was doing that, but is the Minister really telling the House that, if the Agri...

James Paice | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows full well that that is not what I said. This group of amendments deals with...

Lord Beamish | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) The Minister argues that wages should be left to the market. Is he therefore suggesting that there i...

James Paice | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) We have had a number of speeches on these new clauses and amendments which I shall try to address. I...

Lord Mann | 534 c216 (Link to this contribution) As I represent one of the largest Labour rural constituencies, I have to ask the House what is wrong...

James Paice | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) It is not an insult. If it is an insult, it is an insult to Opposition Members who have been using t...

Lord Mann | 534 c217 (Link to this contribution) That is an insult.

Speaker | 534 c181 (Link to this contribution) I have known the hon. Gentleman since long before his election to this House last year—indeed, for t...

Mark Reckless | 534 c181 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister said yesterday that if there were any treaty cha...

David Heath | 534 c181 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the Order of 12 July 2011 (Public Bodies Bill [Lords] (Programme)) be varied as ...

David Heath | 534 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful, Mr Speaker. I think I can safely assume that that point of order was not related...

Jon Trickett | 534 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) There will be time later to pay tribute to the Chairs and other members of the Public Bill Committee...

Hywel Williams | 534 c186 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, I echo the thoughts of hon. Members of all parties about the short time available for debat...

Speaker | 534 c187 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is not possible to intervene on someone who has finished his speech. I think I am correct ...

Hywel Williams | 534 c187 (Link to this contribution) I rather agree with the hon. Lady. I would add that I was fortunate to get a Westminster Hall debate...

Susan Elan Jones | 534 c187 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware that throughout discussion of the Public Bodies Bill—whether in Committe...

Jonathan Edwards | 534 c188 (Link to this contribution) Some political gamesmanship took place during Thursday's business statement when the debate on the B...

John McDonnell | 534 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) The problem for those of us who are not members of Bill Committees as a rule—goodness knows why not—...

Fiona Mactaggart | 534 c187 (Link to this contribution) I have been struck by the fact that the Government are not only being bullies in the amount of time ...

John McDonnell | 534 c187 (Link to this contribution) It is inappropriate and against the rules to criticise the Speaker's selection of amendments, but ma...

Jonathan Ashworth | 534 c183 (Link to this contribution) On that point, my hon. Friend will be aware that many people who work in those public bodies are ver...

Mark Williams | 534 c183 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the problem was compounded by the fact that the business was...

Jon Trickett | 534 c183 (Link to this contribution) I totally understand and agree with my hon. Friend. The TUPE provisions of the Bill are covered by t...

Charlie Elphicke | 534 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) I rise to observe that the programme motion does not allow sufficient time for discussion of Governm...

Jon Trickett | 534 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) I was not aware of that. It is clear that S4C is a major issue in Wales. It was debated at some leng...

Jonathan Ashworth | 534 c185 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. May I put it on record that he spoke eloquently and convincingly to...

Charlie Elphicke | 534 c185 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, the ship of state is moving in the right direction, and I am confident that a safe harbour a...

Stephen Phillips | 534 c185 (Link to this contribution) The ship of state.

Frank Dobson | 534 c185-6 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) on being better off than many Opposition...

Nick Hurd | 534 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that everything will be subject to appropriate procurement regula...

Roger Williams | 534 c191 (Link to this contribution) We have only recently had sight of these new clauses. The water framework directive, which needs to ...

Lord Beamish | 534 c190 (Link to this contribution) I understand why these amendments have been tabled, but it is not a God-given right that the organis...

Nick Hurd | 534 c190 (Link to this contribution) That is a separate issue. We are trying to make the powers clearer so that more circumstances arise ...

Lord Beamish | 534 c190 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman did not answer my question. The fact of the matter is that these measures will gi...

David Heath | 534 c188 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) tried very hard to persuade the House that this was an ...

Nick Hurd | 534 c189 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 534 c189 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 2—Delegation of Wel...

Subjects

Conditions of employment

Charities

Agriculture

Cooperation

Contracts for services

Coroners

Flood control

Environment protection

Equality and Human Rights Commission