UK Parliament / Open data

Welfare Reform Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Debate on bills on Monday, 13 June 2011, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Grayling. The answering member was Stephen Timms.

Welfare Reform Bill. Programme motion (No. 2) on proceedings on Report and Third reading agreed to on question. Report stage debate first day. New clause 1 debated and added to the Bill. New clause 2, discussed with new clauses 3 to 6, debated and negatived on division (215 votes to 293). Some amendments made. Bill to be further considered tomorrow.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

529 c499-609

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Programme motions
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Welfare Reform Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 24 May 2011
Bills
House of Commons

Social Security Benefits: Overpayments
Monday, 27 June 2011
Written questions
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Jenny Willott | 529 c600 (Link to this contribution) There is a huge range of issues that we clearly cannot cover this evening in the time available to u...

Maria Miller | 529 c600-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, which has been raised with me on a couple of occasions. I r...

Show all contributions (259)

Louise Mensch | 529 c600 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my amazement, and that of hard-working people in my deprived constituency ...

Maria Miller | 529 c600 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to be incredulous about the Labour party's position. She should also express...

Alan Reid | 529 c601 (Link to this contribution) Will the Under-Secretary give way?

Simon Hughes | 529 c601 (Link to this contribution) Does the review—or any of the reviews—include the further point about which the Secretary of State s...

Maria Miller | 529 c601 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for that comment. I am not aware that the research will cover that at t...

Anne Begg | 529 c599 (Link to this contribution) The housing associations in my area are saying that because they are likely to have people defaultin...

Maria Miller | 529 c600 (Link to this contribution) I know that that issue has been brought up, and we will work on it with the landlords concerned. Obv...

Maria Miller | 529 c599 (Link to this contribution) I would not want to incur the wrath of Mr Speaker by going into such issues, which are more to do wi...

Maria Miller | 529 c601 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend mind if I made a tiny bit more progress on the amendment, and tried to deal wit...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) It is important that the Minister establishes whether the Government's proposal is intended to solve...

Maria Miller | 529 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) It is absolutely not fair that we have 1 million spare bedrooms being paid for by housing benefit. I...

Alan Reid | 529 c603-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall have to be brief. Much of the Bill will be implemented through regulations. Much of the deba...

Bob Stewart | 529 c552-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree with what my hon. Friend has to say, but does she think it is also very important for a moth...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c553 (Link to this contribution) Yes. We were reassured earlier by the Minister that any kind of sanction regime would apply only onc...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c552 (Link to this contribution) It is important in this debate to get away from the attempt to say that one group of people are hard...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c552 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to discuss the child care element of the universal credit. We did not have...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c554 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend recall going to the seminar where we were consulted about the child care costs, ...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c554 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend highlights the complexity of this area, not just because of the formulae and the math...

Kate Green | 529 c553 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has obviously given this matter very careful thought, and I have great respect for the...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c553-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady underestimates the extent to which the 16-hour job has already become a trap. I think ...

Karen Buck | 529 c553 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making a powerful argument. Will she confirm that Labour Members are not arguing th...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c553 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with some of those other points in my later remarks, because they are all important sub...

Richard Graham | 529 c569 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that local citizens advice bureaux are probably one of the most important a...

Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with one thing that the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) said, which wa...

Paul Uppal | 529 c568 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend. Sometimes we in the House have to face uncomfortable truths. We may not like...

Karen Buck | 529 c566 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that addressing worklessness that has crossed generations should be a co...

Paul Uppal | 529 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) I will modify my speech to highlight some of the concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Ruthergle...

Tom Greatrex | 529 c565 (Link to this contribution) I am seeking an assurance from the Government that that system will be able to continue. The propos...

Andrea Leadsom | 529 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) I recently met a lady in my constituency who is a health visitor, and she told me of a trip that she...

Paul Uppal | 529 c567 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely; the intervention from the hon. Member for Westminster North was very telling. It missed ...

Matt Hancock | 529 c567 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening carefully to my hon. Friend's powerful speech. Does he agree that 20,000 famil...

Paul Uppal | 529 c567 (Link to this contribution) I accept the hon. Lady's point, but I go back to the corrosive effect that that is having on society...

Sarah Newton | 529 c572 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good case. Does he agree that the letter referred to by the hon. M...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c572 (Link to this contribution) I do not make my money out of campaigning, and I never have. Anyone who has done that will know that...

Karen Buck | 529 c571-2 (Link to this contribution) On the subject of scaremongering, is the hon. Gentleman aware that in their letter to the Secretary ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 529 c569 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making a powerful point. The CAB in my constituency—in the Rathcoole area, which is...

Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c569 (Link to this contribution) I will, but to say that local government is the main funder of CABs is to oversimplify the matter. I...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c569-70 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak against new clause 2. One of the major achievements of the reform of introducing uni...

Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c569 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman, and I agree totally. The amendment would simply give people the op...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c570-1 (Link to this contribution) I have not conducted a detailed survey on that. I am also unsure what the 400,000 or 430,000 who wil...

Karen Buck | 529 c570 (Link to this contribution) While the hon. Gentleman is on the subject of the survey of parents' opinions, does he know how many...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c571 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extraordinarily powerful point. Part of the reason for that is that a lot of...

Richard Graham | 529 c571 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is developing a powerful case for greater flexibility, which is precisely what the Bi...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c558 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for her generous introduction to my intervention. I take issue with her argume...

Kate Green | 529 c558 (Link to this contribution) I will, but the hon. Gentleman will tell me that life is different now and that families share child...

Kate Green | 529 c555-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to comment first on the proposed child care amendments. Owing to the funding envelope within ...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c555 (Link to this contribution) My point is that we should try to concentrate the support that the taxpayer gives into the early hou...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c555 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady consider whether, in this debate, we have got ourselves into the situation of bei...

Sarah Newton | 529 c554 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an excellent case. In addition to the financial considerations for women wh...

Guto Bebb | 529 c561-4 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting contribution, but in truth I fail to see how those charities can make those c...

Karen Buck | 529 c561 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing that the Bill will make work pay and that we should accept it without ...

Sarah Newton | 529 c565 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a good point. Is he assured, as I am, by what the Minister has said—tha...

Tom Greatrex | 529 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), who said that this debate rem...

Sarah Newton | 529 c559 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my utter frustration that over the past 10 years, under the Labour Adminis...

Guto Bebb | 529 c560-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is something that was reflected in the comments of the h...

Speaker | 529 c560 (Link to this contribution) Order. I say to the hon. Lady, and remind all hon. Members, that any interventions or contributions ...

Guto Bebb | 529 c559 (Link to this contribution) It is a great privilege to be called to speak in the debate. Having been here all afternoon, I feel ...

Kate Green | 529 c558-9 (Link to this contribution) I am prepared to accept that life is changing, albeit rather more slowly than the hon. Gentleman sug...

Karen Buck | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) There is the remotest chance of the property that such a person is leaving being occupied by someone...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed yet another anomaly that will arise? If somebody moves from an adapted ho...

Karen Buck | 529 c594-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We know from all the evidence that has been given to us by the e...

Anne Begg | 529 c594 (Link to this contribution) Grampian Housing Association, one of the social landlords in my area, has written to me and said:"““...

Karen Buck | 529 c593 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have been drawn into arguing with the Government on their own ...

Karen Buck | 529 c592-3 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right; my hon. Friend makes a valid point. I am not going to say that just becaus...

Anne Begg | 529 c593 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem is not just the cost, but the upheaval and the incredible...

Karen Buck | 529 c594 (Link to this contribution) Pensioners are excluded. As I have argued, the attempt to move people of working age in order to avo...

Karen Buck | 529 c593-4 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to be drawn into debating the advantages and disadvantages of an argument that has ju...

Sarah Newton | 529 c594 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that what we are talking about is treating people like people? All people h...

Glenda Jackson | 529 c596-7 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) mutters from a sedentary posi...

Maria Miller | 529 c597-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck)for taking the time to talk to us about her a...

Karen Buck | 529 c597 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The scheme is not voluntary. Voluntary downsizing has a proud hi...

Maria Miller | 529 c598 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady recalls our debates in Committee, she will know that I have already made this very ...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c598 (Link to this contribution) I am fascinated by the Minister's suggestion that people who volunteer cannot be lone parents, as sh...

Karen Buck | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) To be absolutely clear to the hon. Lady, I am not talking about the overall benefit cap. [Interrupti...

Steve Webb | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) You are confusing people.

Karen Buck | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) I am not confusing anybody. It is a cut in housing benefit of up to 23% for 670,000 households, of w...

Jenny Willott | 529 c595-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady said that she thought that there was no earthly chance of somebody with a similar leve...

Karen Buck | 529 c596 (Link to this contribution) The point that the hon. Lady misses is this: when people come to my advice surgery and say that they...

Karen Buck | 529 c585-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 31, page 5, line 29, at end add—

Stephen Timms | 529 c577-8 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. Our position is that the Government need to listen to what people are saying to them...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c575-6 (Link to this contribution) If we asked the person in the street, ““Do you think that benefits, even universal credit benefits, ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c576-7 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate, and I welcome the Minister's concession on the affirmative proced...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c575 (Link to this contribution) I agree. In fact, let me use the words of the Leader of the Opposition, who said:"““Finally we will ...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c575 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for missing so much of the hon. Gentleman's speech. I am sure I would have been greatly ...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c573-4 (Link to this contribution) I would hope so. New clause 2(1) mentions"““a childcare element for claimants who are in work, excep...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c572-3 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree. That is the whole idea of consultations. The Government have reached out to all ...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c577 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Steve Webb | 529 c592 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady was present at oral questions this afternoon, when I tried to link the situation of 25...

Kate Green | 529 c592 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that there is a likelihood that from time to time, at least, if not const...

Karen Buck | 529 c592 (Link to this contribution) That is a reasonable option to allow people to take, but I seriously doubt whether it is an answer t...

Glenda Jackson | 529 c588 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a third warning bell, also, in the evidence that is being produced almost weekly that t...

Aidan Burley | 529 c590 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Lady's arguments closely. I represent a Birmingham constituency where the av...

Karen Buck | 529 c590-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point but is mixing lots of different arguments, if he does ...

Speaker | 529 c586 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Karen Buck | 529 c586 (Link to this contribution) These amendments draw out two strands from the wide-ranging set of debates that we had in Committee ...

Sarah Newton | 529 c587 (Link to this contribution) Surely the hon. Lady is going to acknowledge that all this is because of a very important step that ...

Karen Buck | 529 c587-8 (Link to this contribution) I will be very interested to see the evidence for the hon. Lady's assertion. Although I know that ou...

John Leech | 529 c599 (Link to this contribution) May I offer an alternative solution for keeping rents low? How about building more council houses an...

Maria Miller | 529 c598-9 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady forgive me for making a little progress? Many other hon. Members want to come in ...

Maria Miller | 529 c599 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I shall be happy to write to her with the full details, and ...

Karen Buck | 529 c599 (Link to this contribution) The statistic that 40% of the market is subsidised by the local housing allowance is central to the ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c523 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to hear the hon. Gentleman belittling self-employment. For many people, including people ...

Guto Bebb | 529 c523 (Link to this contribution) Obviously I support the self-employed and want the universal credit system to support them, but we n...

Stephen Timms | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that self-employment is a crucial element of our economy f...

Kate Green | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the attractions of supporting self-employment is that it...

Stephen Timms | 529 c523 (Link to this contribution) The problem is that the proposed system does not support the self-employed in the way that the tax c...

Guto Bebb | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) It is important to correct the record. I did not state that self-employed people were under-declarin...

Stephen Timms | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) I will gladly give way, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will support self-employment this time.

Stephen Timms | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) I have made it clear that the priority should be to maintain child care support for those who are cu...

Guto Bebb | 529 c525 (Link to this contribution) Again, I need to clarify the record. It is important to understand that the capital allowance system...

Stephen Timms | 529 c524-5 (Link to this contribution) That is a long-standing feature of the tax system for businesses generally, and we should be encoura...

Lord Grayling | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) May I take the right hon. Gentleman back to the key question? We are talking about people of working...

Stephen Timms | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) In government, we set out the arrangements for pension credit as they stand. In our view, those arra...

Lord Grayling | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will remember that we debated this matter extensively in Committee, so it i...

Stephen Timms | 529 c525 (Link to this contribution) I am not clear whether or not the hon. Gentleman supports the fact that we have had 100% capital all...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) Let me understand fully what the right hon. Gentleman is saying. If a retired man, say, of 66 is mar...

Stephen Timms | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) I certainly think that the arrangement should have been announced, and our amendment proposes that i...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) I am a little unclear about whether the right hon. Gentleman's position is that this measure is wron...

Stephen Timms | 529 c526 (Link to this contribution) As far as I can see, the arrangements for pension credit have worked perfectly well up to now, presu...

Stephen Timms | 529 c527 (Link to this contribution) No, it is not. Any income to the household from a working spouse will be counted in the household in...

Lord Grayling | 529 c527 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me for probing. The right hon. Gentleman has rightly set out his case as an amendment, but I...

Stephen Timms | 529 c529 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to reminding the hon. Gentleman of that comment in September 2013. The intention of ...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c529 (Link to this contribution) I put it to the right hon. Gentleman, as I did in Committee when he made that point, that this Gover...

Stephen Timms | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister seriously saying that how the cost of child care will be supported is a detail?

Lord Grayling | 529 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) I should like to start by making the same point that I made in Committee. I have listened to the rig...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) Why does the Minister expect us—and, indeed, the general public—to accept his statements about the i...

Lord Grayling | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) I am saying to him precisely what he said to me all those years ago—that many of the details will be...

Lord Grayling | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) I expect it for precisely the same reason that the right hon. Member for East Ham expected me to sup...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c532 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his important announcement on the use of the affirmative procedure the firs...

Anne Begg | 529 c532 (Link to this contribution) On a matter of principle, does the Minister believe that the regulations should be subject to parlia...

Lord Grayling | 529 c532 (Link to this contribution) Of course. As the right hon. Member for East Ham will know, I have tabled several Government amendm...

Eilidh Whiteford | 529 c531 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly surprised to hear the Minister describing school as a glorified babysitting service. T...

Lord Grayling | 529 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) The point is that we do not penalise parents, particularly lone parents. We do not require them to p...

Eilidh Whiteford | 529 c531 (Link to this contribution) One of the concerns raised by children's organisations in Scotland is that not enough consideration ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c531 (Link to this contribution) Of course, we already provide child care universally through our schools system. The truth is that n...

Anne Begg | 529 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right that often things are not written into a Bill, but usually the regulations hav...

Lord Grayling | 529 c531 (Link to this contribution) I have had this discussion within the Department. We have already brought forward a number of draft ...

Anne Begg | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) I went along to one of the meetings about the Government's proposals for child care to which the Sec...

Lord Grayling | 529 c530 (Link to this contribution) The point is that we do not write numbers on the face of a Bill. I will speak in detail about the ri...

Lord Grayling | 529 c535 (Link to this contribution) Women and men in this country have realised that the previous Government's belief that money grows o...

Madeleine Moon | 529 c535 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister understand that many women are frightened by the Bill's proposals and nervous abou...

Lord Grayling | 529 c535 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady would have known if she had listened to the debate in Committee, we are putting in ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) The technical response to that is, ““You wish!”” I remember many occasions on which we came to a deb...

Anne Begg | 529 c534 (Link to this contribution) Clearly the Minister has moved on this issue, but there is still the problem that the affirmative pr...

Lord Grayling | 529 c534 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, but that is precisely why we have extended the hand of involvement to the hon. Lady a...

Sandra Osborne | 529 c535 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be aware of how important the child care tax credit has been in supporting familie...

Lord Grayling | 529 c532 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. Some of my colleagues and I have been in the House for long...

Sarah Newton | 529 c532 (Link to this contribution) As another new Member, I ask my right hon. Friend to cast his mind back and consider whether the rig...

Lord Grayling | 529 c533 (Link to this contribution) I cannot remember the previous Government doing more than we have to engage people in Westminster, p...

Stephen Timms | 529 c533 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly the case that the previous Government never got to this stage in a Bill's passage wi...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c537 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, we heard a great deal about these mini jobs. We have just heard the Minister say that ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c537 (Link to this contribution) It is not our intention that routine or minor changes in circumstances would lead to the loss of tra...

Kate Green | 529 c537 (Link to this contribution) I noted the Minister's reminder a few moments ago that transitional protection would also be availab...

John McDonnell | 529 c536 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister knows, I have supported the universal credit system for some while, but each of the ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c536 (Link to this contribution) The answer is that we will do it as quickly as we possibly can. We are not in the business of delayi...

Madeleine Moon | 529 c535-6 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that there is concern about the deficit, but will the Minister assure us that women who...

Anne Main | 529 c537 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is unhelpful for the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) to ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c537 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. The whole purpose of the universal credit is to provide ass...

Lord Grayling | 529 c536 (Link to this contribution) I will endeavour to answer that. On the child care issue, we are in consultation at the moment. I wo...

Lord Grayling | 529 c541-3 (Link to this contribution) Every organisation has to look at how it operates in tougher times financially, and at how best to s...

Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c541 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that the money currently given to Citizens Advice is spent centrally on vit...

Lord Grayling | 529 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. That is something that we need to address, because the curr...

Lord Grayling | 529 c537-8 (Link to this contribution) The changes we made last year—the reduction from 80% to 70% support—merely returned us to the situat...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c538 (Link to this contribution) The detailed and comprehensive information that the Minister and the Department for Work and Pension...

Lord Grayling | 529 c538-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his point in his usual forceful and inimitable way. He highlighted how Labour M...

Stephen Timms | 529 c539 (Link to this contribution) The Minister made an important point a moment ago. He said that he agreed that support for free scho...

Lord Grayling | 529 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely what we have asked the Social Security Advisory Committee to examine for us: how b...

Anne Begg | 529 c540 (Link to this contribution) Even if universal credit fulfils what the Minister describes—he says that it will be simpler, and al...

Lord Grayling | 529 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) My view is that our partner organisations, such as Citizens Advice, need to be involved and informed...

Lord Grayling | 529 c545-6 (Link to this contribution) The £2 billion contains sufficient money for us to be able to deliver the transitional protection an...

Anne Begg | 529 c545 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell us how much will be available for the transitional protection? The figure of ...

Christopher Chope | 529 c543 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend knows that I have expressed some concerns about this issue in the past. Can he ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c544-5 (Link to this contribution) As I said to the right hon. Gentleman in Committee, we are looking at the best way of doing this. We...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c546 (Link to this contribution) The Government have gone to great lengths to engage all parliamentarians, including the hon. Lady, i...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c546-7 (Link to this contribution) In general, I should prefer legislation not to be pushed through all its stages until more of the de...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c547 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady clearly supports the fait accompli proposed by the Opposition—including, it seems, the...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c547 (Link to this contribution) I am not convinced that the new clause does away with the entire principle of the mini-job, although...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c546 (Link to this contribution) The debate we have had—in Committee and this evening—shows some of the pitfalls of saying, ““We are ...

Sarah Newton | 529 c548 (Link to this contribution) How on earth does the hon. Lady think someone who has not had a job can obtain a better job?

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c548 (Link to this contribution) I cannot accept the hon. Lady's premise. People were able to work as a result of the measures introd...

Anne Main | 529 c548 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady seems to be digging herself into a hole. She has admitted that the measures taken by t...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c547-8 (Link to this contribution) I hope that those figures for Scotland are not like the figures for the whole United Kingdom, which,...

Guto Bebb | 529 c547 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the hon. Lady refers to micro-jobs as if they were not important. I should have ...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) With all due respect, I think the boot is on the other foot. It appears that the people who are to b...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c550 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady speaks as though everyone is going to be terribly badly off under universal credit, bu...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c548-9 (Link to this contribution) I think that it often made a lot of sense for people to work for 16 hours and more, and issues such ...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c549 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady speaks as though the idea that a woman looking after a child would work for fewer than...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c548 (Link to this contribution) Of course people have to work, and of course they have to be able to work in real, proper jobs. The ...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c548 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not accept that that is exactly what happened when people were stuck in jobs that...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c550 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has repeated the much-quoted figure of £18 billion being taken out of welfare spending...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c550 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to unpack that question. First, it has almost been forgotten—I hope not entirely forgott...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c550-1 (Link to this contribution) In answer to that, let me give a personal view that I would not want to attribute to all my colleagu...

Stephen Timms | 529 c500 (Link to this contribution) I take issue somewhat with the Minister. I do not agree that there has been adequate time in Committ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c499-500 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the Order of 9 March 2011 (Welfare Reform Bill (Programme)) be varied as follows...

Stephen Timms | 529 c505-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this opportunity to respond to this first group of amendments. It is certainly one of the ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c504-5 (Link to this contribution) That would depend on the circumstances. It is obviously important that a deduction of earnings take ...

Lord Grayling | 529 c508-10 (Link to this contribution) I start by saying that I very much appreciate the comments of the hon. Member for Stretford and Urms...

Kate Green | 529 c507-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to make my first contribution to this stage of proceedings on the Bill by welcoming...

Lord Grayling | 529 c510 (Link to this contribution) It is very difficult to give an absolute answer to that question. It is unlikely that we would seek ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c510 (Link to this contribution) Will people who receive pay rises always receive some benefit from it, or could they lose all of tha...

Stephen Timms | 529 c513 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 529 c513-4 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Stephen Timms | 529 c515 (Link to this contribution) No: our solution is the one in new clause 2, which we are debating. The priority should be to mainta...

Lord Grayling | 529 c502 (Link to this contribution) Mr Speaker, if you would permit me to go off the subject for a moment, I think it would be appropria...

Speaker | 529 c502 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 1 to 13.

Lord Grayling | 529 c502 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 529 c500 (Link to this contribution) The Orders of the Day will now be read by the Clerk, Dr Sir Malcolm Jack.

Chris Bryant | 529 c503 (Link to this contribution) While the Minister considers that issue, will he also consider the case of the many hundreds of thou...

Lord Grayling | 529 c503 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. Although in theory mechanisms do exist to recover payments,...

Anne Main | 529 c503 (Link to this contribution) Is there some sort of structure in process so that if EU migrants who work in the country and are el...

Lord Grayling | 529 c504 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an important point, and I will explain in a moment what rights individuals will ...

Andrew Percy | 529 c504 (Link to this contribution) On that point, would a debt order have any bearing on the assessable income available for child main...

Lord Grayling | 529 c503 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is of course correct, but I am sure that he would also agree that if someone come...

Eilidh Whiteford | 529 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify whether any judicial process will be applied to attachments in relation to...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c519 (Link to this contribution) On the important subject of free school meals, is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that the taper...

Stephen Timms | 529 c518 (Link to this contribution) I very much hope that the Government are working out the answers to those questions. I would certain...

Jenny Willott | 529 c519 (Link to this contribution) Returning to the right hon. Gentleman's proposals on prescription charges, is he not concerned about...

Stephen Timms | 529 c519 (Link to this contribution) The point is that it is a zero-cost proposal; I am simply suggesting that the funding would be provi...

Kate Green | 529 c520 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend also agree that one of the real concerns we face as a result of universal ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c520 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. For that very reason, the risks are great indeed. When I come on...

Lord Grayling | 529 c520 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman clear up one point of confusion for me and, I suspect, for my hon. Fri...

Stephen Timms | 529 c520-2 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will find out the answer to that question in due course. We have been consi...

Stephen Timms | 529 c519-20 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Lady's point, and to that extent the current system has a lot of attractions. ...

Oliver Heald | 529 c520 (Link to this contribution) Is it not a bit rich to put the case in that way when under the right hon. Gentleman's Government, w...

Stephen Timms | 529 c520 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has a good deal more experience in these matters, if I may say so, than some of h...

Chris Leslie | 529 c517 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right to point out the importance of free school meals for many of our const...

Stephen Timms | 529 c516-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point and is absolutely right. People are worried about what the G...

Kate Green | 529 c516 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is disingenuous of the Government to make proposals to fund ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c516 (Link to this contribution) If that would mean that people who are currently able to work for more than 16 hours had to give up ...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c515 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman welcome the proposals that would allow people to move into work of up ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c518 (Link to this contribution) I gladly give way to the Minister again. Perhaps he will tell us how the Government propose that ent...

Lord Grayling | 529 c518 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will try to catch Mr Speaker's eye in a moment to ans...

Stephen Timms | 529 c518 (Link to this contribution) No, the Minister is mistaken. All pupils in the school would pay for their meals with the card. The ...

Stephen Timms | 529 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right about the centrality of free school meals e...

Lord Grayling | 529 c518 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that his proposal flies in face of the admirable position at th...

Guto Bebb | 529 c523 (Link to this contribution) The question of the income levels of the self-employed is not as simple as the right hon. Gentleman ...

Paul Uppal | 529 c522 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has stressed the importance of aspiration. New clause 3, which concerns fre...

Stephen Timms | 529 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) Certainly the Bill should encourage aspiration, but if it prevents people from saving in the way tha...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c558 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way?

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c555 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Lady, who was so generous in giving way to me.

Glenda Jackson | 529 c593 (Link to this contribution) Is there not another bureaucratic hurdle for people who are in adapted homes or, as is often the cas...

Richard Graham | 529 c573 (Link to this contribution) It seems extraordinary that the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck), with whom I sat on the ...

Sheila Gilmore | 529 c598 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way?

Guto Bebb | 529 c524 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised to hear those comments. I understand that the right hon. Gentleman is talking about s...

Lord Grayling | 529 c536 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether the hon. Lady was in the Chamber a moment ago when I answered question on chil...

Anne Main | 529 c543 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a valid point about people who are considered self-employed. Does he have...

Stephen Timms | 529 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) referred to rumour, but the White Paper said that self-e...

Charlie Elphicke | 529 c551 (Link to this contribution) What would the hon. Lady say to a constituent of mine who earns £15,000 a year, has no savings, work...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c515 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way on this extremely important issue. Is his solution t...

Harriett Baldwin | 529 c554 (Link to this contribution) I vividly remember going back into full-time work after maternity leave—and on that first day back, ...

Sarah Newton | 529 c595 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is being very generous in giving way to me. I imagine that there are a great number o...

Paul Uppal | 529 c575 (Link to this contribution) As usual, my hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he not highlight the fact that this is ...

Karen Buck | 529 c588-90 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Without any question, we are seeing a growth in the private rent...

Stephen Timms | 529 c527-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not recognise the policy that the Minister describes. We have had a long-standing arrangement f...

John McDonnell | 529 c536 (Link to this contribution) I am not trying to catch the Minister out—I am trying but to secure clarity on each of these issues....

Lord Grayling | 529 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, underlining the complexity of these issues and why I believe it i...

Stephen Timms | 529 c514-5 (Link to this contribution) As this Bill returns to the Chamber on Report, it is astonishing how many policy gaps remain. This g...

Subjects

Childcare

Deductions

Capital rules

Housing benefit

Free school meals

Overpayments

Pension credit

Low incomes

Pay

Social security benefits

Welfare tax credits