Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 29 March 2011, in the House of Lords.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Lords committee stage third day. Clause 2 : Early parliamentary general elections, debated and agreed to. Clause 3: Dissolution of Parliament, debated and agreed to. Clause 4: Supplementary provisions, agreed to. Schedule agreed to. Clause 5: final provisions, agreed to. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 60 2010-12).

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

726 c1086-105, c1114-53, c1168-238

Session

2010-12

Department

Deputy Prime Minister

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. As amended in Committee. (Lords Minutes)
Tuesday, 29 March 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 40-EN).
Wednesday, 19 January 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Tenth report on the following bills: Devolution (Time) Bill (HL) Fixed-term Parliaments Bill Remembrance Sunday (Closure of Shops) Bill (HL) Torture (Damages) Bill (HL)
Wednesday, 9 February 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Constitution Select Committee (HL) eighth report on the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill.
Wednesday, 1 December 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1093 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Newton of Braintree. He is right about the international...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 726 c1095 (Link to this contribution) Jim Callaghan did not immediately go to the country. There was a gap of some six weeks.

Show all contributions (233)

Lord Grocott | 726 c1093-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Newton, repeated an argument that has been used on many occasions, pa...

Lord Campbell of Alloway | 726 c1095 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, very briefly, I have for a long time shared the concerns expressed by the noble Lord. Thos...

Lord Grocott | 726 c1095 (Link to this contribution) He immediately called the general election. My noble friend is quite right to correct me, but it amo...

Lord Grocott | 726 c1095 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, my Lords. I was sitting down thinking about having a cup of tea and suddenly realised th...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 726 c1095 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is worth pointing out that the noble Lord’s Government introduced a fixed-term Parliame...

Lord Rennard | 726 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Does not the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, recall that it was actually in the a...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) This is a fascinating debate. To pick up on what my noble friend Lord Clinton-Davis said, it has bee...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1096-8 (Link to this contribution) It was a very good model for Wales. The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, appears to be supporting a model u...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, has made an interesting speech and has raised a number of fascinati...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 726 c1089-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to group Amendment 37, which stands in my name, with Amendment 34. The officials ha...

Baroness Hayman | 726 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I have to inform the Committee that, if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments 36 or ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid it was all too transparent and not satisfactory by any manner of means. My noble friend ...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 726 c1092 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I hasten to assure my Front Bench that this is my day of virtue and goodness—

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 726 c1092 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may help the Committee by saying that when the Constitution Committee, to which my noble f...

Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 726 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I hate to interrupt because I agree with so much of what my noble friend has said. He speaks of othe...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 726 c1093 (Link to this contribution) That may be a bit excessive, but then Belgium has some rather unique problems—which, so far, have no...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1086 (Link to this contribution) 34: Clause 2, page 2, line 12, leave out paragraph (b)

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 34 would delete Clause 2(2)(b)—the provision that, if after 14 days following a ...

Lord Anderson of Swansea | 726 c1088 (Link to this contribution) For examples of greater accountability, we do not need to look at the textbooks. We have a living ex...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I feel that the noble and learned Lord is getting a bit paranoid. No, I would not have said that.

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1168-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment is designed to probe the reasons for the Speaker having to consult the Depu...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1168 (Link to this contribution) 43: Clause 2, page 2, line 16, leave out subsection (4)

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1170-1 (Link to this contribution) On the face of it, this seems an unwise provision. First, the similar provision in the Parliament Ac...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1169-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I tabled an amendment in exactly the same terms as the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth. A...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 726 c1150 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for being patient with me. The noble Lord, Lord Marks, was kind enough to say t...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1150 (Link to this contribution) It is for the purpose of making it legally certain that the circumstances have been met, that the co...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1151-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an outstandingly important debate about an outstandingly important subject. ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1150-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I accept the offer of the noble Lord—and perhaps of the noble Baroness—to discuss this. I ...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1149 (Link to this contribution) We should look at the precedent for such certification, which is surely the Parliament Acts. Equally...

Earl of Onslow | 726 c1149 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble and learned Lord give me any precedent where a specific motion of no confidence in the...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1149 (Link to this contribution) I would never say that my noble friend is being stupid; I take the blame myself for perhaps not expl...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1149 (Link to this contribution) I say again, it is not just that it is passed, it is that it is passed and that there has been no fu...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1149 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I am being stupid, but if a motion in the House of Commons states, ““This House has no confi...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1148-9 (Link to this contribution) It is necessary because, as the Bill is constructed, there are trigger mechanisms to cause an electi...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1148 (Link to this contribution) I accept my noble and learned friend's rebuke. I come from a tradition which thinks that the Clerk o...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1147-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, for the amendment, which I think, by any account, has produced...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl is right to identify that the Bill is not covered by the Parliament Act. The more we ...

Earl of Onslow | 726 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I may be tempted to tempt.

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1126-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not really accept the premise of my noble and learned friend’s question in that the Bill does n...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1127 (Link to this contribution) 41: Clause 2, page 2, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) An early general election will only be called at...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1125-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have taken part in this short debate. It has been extremely...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1126 (Link to this contribution) I am interested because I made this point in response to the comments by the noble and learned Lord,...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1130 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble and learned friend but my point, which I am delighted that he acknowl...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1129-30 (Link to this contribution) I was genuinely somewhat puzzled about what the point was. However, I understand that the noble and ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I could leave out entirely the legitimate drafting point that the noble and learned Lord makes. If t...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1128-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for his explanation of the amendment as I found its pur...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1128 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to speak briefly on this interesting amendment. I go back to the point raised earli...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1127-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is another part of the conundrum that we have debated pretty fully already. Perhaps I...

Lord Grocott | 726 c1123 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble and learned Lord answer this question? It has been raised on a number of occasions but...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1123 (Link to this contribution) It is a very hypothetical situation. Any new Government, as the noble Lord suggests, would have to b...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 726 c1123 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to repeat the quotation that I gave from the Constitution Committee’s proceedin...

Lord Grocott | 726 c1124 (Link to this contribution) If this game of musical parties were to occur—more specifically, if the Liberal Democrats were to de...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1124 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. I had presumed that there had been a vote of no confidence in what would then have been...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1123 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is not new. Surely in a parliamentary democracy the Government require the confidence...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1123 (Link to this contribution) There is the important qualification that, if we were in a scenario where this Bill was law, it woul...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1124 (Link to this contribution) In the scenario that my noble friend Lord Grocott was suggesting, would it actually be necessary und...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1123-4 (Link to this contribution) That is self-evident. One might well go back to 1977 when, quite clearly to forestall losing a confi...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 726 c1142-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise with some diffidence in view of the speeches from the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroy...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1143 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is obviously an expert in these matters. As the argument is about the degree of risk...

Lord Bach | 726 c1145 (Link to this contribution) Parliamentary Secretary.

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1145 (Link to this contribution) I make it clear that my error is in no way intended to undermine him. He is the Parliamentary Secret...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 726 c1143-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a matter we have canvassed before. My noble friends and I put forward a suggestion...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1144-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a powerful short debate. My noble friend Lord Howarth introduced the debate ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1146 (Link to this contribution) Do not tempt us.

Earl of Onslow | 726 c1146 (Link to this contribution) Has not the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, actually made a speech suggesting that we should ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1145-6 (Link to this contribution) I completely understand what the noble Lord, Lord Martin of Springburn, is saying. My own view is th...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 726 c1145 (Link to this contribution) Mr Harper perhaps overlooks the fact that any Speaker always has at his or her side the Clerk of the...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1130-1 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is absolutely right. That is why there was an electoral system that almost invariabl...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1131 (Link to this contribution) Of course I shall withdraw it because we are in Committee and will not really be having any votes. I...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1131 (Link to this contribution) 42: Clause 2, page 2, line 15, at end insert ““and ought not be impeached or questioned in any court...

Baroness Boothroyd | 726 c1136-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I regret that I was unable to be here for the Second Reading of the Bill but I say at the ...

Earl of Onslow | 726 c1140 (Link to this contribution) I was never Speaker but I am descended from three Speakers. I have never heard of a more awful choic...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 726 c1139-40 (Link to this contribution) I have heard the Minister say on earlier amendments that if they were withdrawn, he would take them ...

Lord Williamson of Horton | 726 c1140-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have heard outstanding speeches from two former Speakers of the House of Commons. I mus...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1142 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much agree with what has been said so far. We will have an opportunity later to deb...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1102-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I have been very generous. It is important that we make progress. We took the judgm...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1104 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord tell the Committee whether he intends to take away the subsection in order to re...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1102 (Link to this contribution) They could if they commanded a majority in the House of Commons. It would require them to face the H...

Lord Maxton | 726 c1102 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1101-2 (Link to this contribution) As has been pointed out, what happened in Wales was that, after Mr Alun Michael resigned—he did not ...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1102 (Link to this contribution) What I have to say is fundamental to what my noble and learned friend is saying. In the present situ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1101 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Lamont has also been trying to get in. If he wishes to ask a question, I shall ...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 726 c1101 (Link to this contribution) At Second Reading, my noble and learned friend said that the advantage and the public interest in ha...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1101 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am trying to address the arguments advanced by a number of noble Lords and will certainl...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Yes I was. I am most grateful to my noble friend, who is the most conciliatory of men—but. The two d...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble and learned Lord again but that is precisely the point I...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for confirming that in the context of this Bill these were ident...

Lord Campbell of Alloway | 726 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I have a very short question. Will my noble and learned friend deal with the argument of the noble L...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) Surely, given how the noble and learned Lord has explained it, the safety is being provided for the ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, maybe ““safety valve”” leads to a misleading impression of what is meant. It is not a safe...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I go back to my point about the use of the phrase ““safety valve””, which I think appears throughout...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1100 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think it is also fair to say that the general trigger mechanisms, if I can call them tha...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, indicated in moving Amendment 34, and as was confirmed by...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I am intrigued by the analogy that the Minister uses in respect of requiring a larger majority than ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I was using the terminology used by your Lordships’ Constitution Committee. It is not one I would ne...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1118 (Link to this contribution) He may well have said that, but actually what he put on the table before the electorate in 1974, whi...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 726 c1118 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord explain to me why I am mistaken in recollecting that Mr Heath did say, ““Back me...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1120-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth for his amendments and the noble Lord, Lord H...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1119 (Link to this contribution) I merely seek some advice from the noble and learned Lord. He said that the Prime Minister would hav...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1122 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if we assume the Prime Minister resigns, that does not trigger the Bill. A new person is i...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1122-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there would not necessarily be another 14-day period triggered by the first one. Subject t...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1121 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right that I regard the position of there being a contrived...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1121-2 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the noble and learned Lord’s comments, and I shall reflect on this matter. The se...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1104 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord, as I think that was his very first point, which was also picked up in...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1117-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have the greatest respect for my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth, who has unrivalled a...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1104-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his willingness to look again to see whether the drafting could be clarif...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1105 (Link to this contribution) On 1940, let me just be clear that these provisions would never have been engaged then, as Mr Chambe...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1105 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is absolutely right in relation to that. I took the 1940 example because I felt that on...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1105 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may say so, that was another worthwhile exchange. It would not be my intention to pre...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1114 (Link to this contribution) 35: Clause 2, page 2, line 12, leave out paragraph (b) and insert— ““( ) the Prime Minister has deci...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1114-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 38. I very much agreed with the arguments advanced earlier by the no...

Lord Haskel | 726 c1115 (Link to this contribution) I have to inform your Lordships that if this amendment is agreed, I cannot call Amendments 36 or 37,...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1115-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 39, which fits into this group covering various contingencies...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution) The account of history given by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, is entirely accurate. However, if you ...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1210 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord is trying to rewrite history in the most peculiar way. During the war, ea...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1209-10 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure. I think that there are two alternatives. The one is to be lured into the trap that th...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1209 (Link to this contribution) Much of what the noble and learned Lord says about the deficiencies of the Bill is completely right....

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1208-9 (Link to this contribution) Is that right, because the wording in the amendment is: "““passes a motion of no confidence tabled b...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1208 (Link to this contribution) As the Bill now necessitates, instead of saying that we are on the Adjournment and that this will be...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1208 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord may or may not be right. He has been in the Commons, I have not, so he will understan...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1208 (Link to this contribution) Under the present rules, it is perfectly possible for a flagship policy to be lost in the Commons an...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1208 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is right, a massive constitutional change is being proposed. I did not realise tha...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1207 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord is giving examples of Motions that were treated as confidence Motions. Am...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1216 (Link to this contribution) We debated this under Amendments 35 and 39. I said then and as part of our general debates that, in ...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1216 (Link to this contribution) I understand the argument that my noble and learned friend is developing. One of his objections to m...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1216 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1213 (Link to this contribution) I seem to recall in one of our earlier debates that there was a suggestion that in the 1970s Mr Haro...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1213 (Link to this contribution) I completely understand that it is different under the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill but remember that...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1213-5 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the House accepted it because it was quite clear that if the Prime Minister had decided that...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1213 (Link to this contribution) It was earlier in this debate. It has been going on for so long, it is difficult to remember. The po...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1211 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is obvious that we have had an important debate following a number of other debates on ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1212-3 (Link to this contribution) That is indeed what I said because there is a difference between a fixed term, as set out principall...

Lord Howe of Aberavon | 726 c1211-2 (Link to this contribution) With great respect to my noble and learned friend, he said we are trying to set up a situation in wh...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1192-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the authors of this amendment are so distinguished that I speak with even more trepidation...

Lord Armstrong of Ilminster | 726 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have put my name to this proposed new clause because it provides greater clarity and cer...

Lord Howe of Aberavon | 726 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened to the discussions today—and indeed on this subject—with anything but joy ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1188-9 (Link to this contribution) If the provisions of subsection (2) in the noble Lord’s new clause are met, the Speaker is required ...

Lord Tyler | 726 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the noble Lord. There are people who will always want to subject the decisions o...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1194 (Link to this contribution) Who is going to challenge the decision of the Prime Minister? Will it be the Leader of the Oppositio...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1188 (Link to this contribution) However, the amendment removes the existing Clause 2. I agree with the noble Lord that that should b...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1188 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is assuming that all the circumstances that he has specified in the four categories t...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1187 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is repeating the earlier debate because in this new clause the Speaker does not have ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I would very much like to be comforted by the noble Lord’s suggestion, but we are in an evolving sta...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1203 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, I shall answer his question about the list. The reason why we need...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1201-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the hour is late so I have no wish to detain the House. First, I would like to congratulat...

Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 726 c1203-5 (Link to this contribution) This debate has demonstrated the need for the Government to reconsider Clause 2. I am very grateful ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1203 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected by my noble friend, who is very expert on these matters. However, a motion that sa...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1205-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has again been an important debate. I pay a particular tribute to the speech by the n...

Lord McAvoy | 726 c1195-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe of Aberavon, has described better than I ever could the Alice ...

Lord Glentoran | 726 c1199 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the noble Lord with great care. He is somebody I have respected for a long time. ...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 726 c1196-9 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested in the amendment and agree a great deal with the noble Lords, Lord Cormack and ...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1199-201 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to the new clause as well. I will just begin by disagreeing with my n...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 726 c1199 (Link to this contribution) If the House wants me to cease speaking I will do so. I am sorry—the noble Lord has put me off, but ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1228-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not detect a huge zest in the Committee for considering the remaining amendments on t...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1229-30 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I would speak briefly on the amendment. I can see the argument that it drives a coach...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1227 (Link to this contribution) 55: Clause 3, page 2, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) Parliament may otherwise be dissolved if— (a) He...

Lord Bach | 726 c1226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in supporting my noble friend on his amendment I invite the Government to think very caref...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1226-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, for his amendment. Clearly, it seeks to...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c1225-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my amendment is very straightforward. It allows for four extra working days from the Disso...

Lord Rennard | 726 c1226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, briefly, I support the broad principle of extending the election timetable, largely for th...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1217-8 (Link to this contribution) First of all, I apologise for jumping the gun ahead of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth. I echo his rema...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1218 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, our debates on Clause 2 have been very significant. Would it possible for the noble and le...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 726 c1216 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that it would be for the convenience of the Committee if the noble Lord, Lord Howa...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1216-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, noble Lords who have spoken in this debate are people of great political experience, exper...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1219 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I tried to answer on this in response to the previous debate, when I indicated that we rec...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1219 (Link to this contribution) There was just a flicker there, in that the noble and learned Lord said a vote of no confidence woul...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1218-9 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly more than willing to meet. I will need to discuss with ministerial colleagues—it will...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1219 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord. One of the things that very much infused the debat...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1219 (Link to this contribution) 52: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— ““Parliamentary general elections coinciding wi...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1220 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment deals with the question of the potential coincidence between elections for ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1220-1 (Link to this contribution) I hope this will be a helpful way to proceed, because Amendments 55B and 55C standing in my name imp...

Lord Wigley | 726 c1221 (Link to this contribution) Before he sits down, can the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, confirm that the Government’s ame...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1221 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not about to sit down. I was about to address how we might proceed in the future. I ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1221 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that people will know. Does he envisage that the Bill will be passed by 5 May 2011...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1222-3 (Link to this contribution) People will know our intentions. I stand corrected by the noble and learned Lord. We thought it was ...

Lord Wigley | 726 c1223 (Link to this contribution) In the first place, I thank the Minister and the Government for moving on this, following the discus...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1223-4 (Link to this contribution) I have two or three difficulties with the Government’s proposal. First, if Parliament decides that i...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1224 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I sometimes wonder if the noble and learned Lord listened to what I said. I have answered ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1224 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble and learned Lord saying that it would be four years or five years?

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1224-5 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that they would still get five years. I do not think it would be right to elect people o...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c1225 (Link to this contribution) 53: Clause 3, page 2, line 26, leave out ““17th”” and insert ““21st””

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1225 (Link to this contribution) It was my fault for not having heard that. Having heard what the noble and learned Lord said now and...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1177 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord said something important there. He said that the Prime Minister would be ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1177 (Link to this contribution) It could be challengeable by judicial review if he was abusing his decision on a recommendation. Tha...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment seeks to ensure that in the event of an early general election the constitue...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I readily recognise where the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, is coming from on this....

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister envisage Parliament dealing with the issue by primary legislation each time?

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1180 (Link to this contribution) As things stand, it probably would have to be by primary legislation. It might be a very simple Bill...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1177 (Link to this contribution) Just to pursue that: the Government envisage a situation that could not arise now—because there is a...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution) It is not what the Government envisage. However, if a vote of confidence had been on 10 December 201...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 726 c1178 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the consideration that has been given by noble Lords and my noble and le...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1178 (Link to this contribution) 49: Clause 2, page 2, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) If an early parliamentary general election occur...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1181 (Link to this contribution) 50: Clause 2, leave out Clause 2 and insert the following new Clause— ““Early parliamentary general ...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1181-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am delighted to be able to move this amendment. I have listened with great care to all t...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1181 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not at all surprised to be advised that my amendment is defective, as these are indee...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1187 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I have this wrong, but my understanding of the present position is that the Government may b...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1185 (Link to this contribution) 51: Clause 2, line 15, leave out subsections (3) and (4)

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1185-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my amendment to the new clause tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, and his very distin...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1184 (Link to this contribution) Can my noble friend help me if I ask the same question that I asked of my noble friend on the Front ...

Lord Wigley | 726 c1183 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord. On that occasion, he is right to say that my Scottish friends ...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1184 (Link to this contribution) I am deeply grateful both for the correction and for the explicit example. Of course, we all know, t...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1176-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I readily understand the thinking behind the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Marks...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is not necessarily paranoia if you think that someone is putting forward such an argume...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1173 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have spoken in this short debate, which is an important deb...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 726 c1174 (Link to this contribution) 45: Clause 2, page 2, line 21, leave out from ““(2),”” to second ““day”” and insert ““polling for th...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1173 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble and learned friend not see the irony in arguing the case for this on the basis that it...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1173 (Link to this contribution) I see the irony. I still think that it is right.

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1175-6 (Link to this contribution) I was rather puzzled by the amendment, for the same reason the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, indicated: ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1176 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused by the amendment. Its effect would be that, depending on the date of the cert...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 726 c1174 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment addresses two issues. I do not propose to deal with the question of possible...

Lord Grocott | 726 c1174-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a characteristic of trying to solve a problem that has never existed. The only occ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1236-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I draw much comfort from what the Minister has just said. Indeed, we need not be too scare...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1234 (Link to this contribution) 56: Clause 4, page 3, line 12, at end insert ““except that Parliament may not be prorogued for more ...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1234-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is me again, but this is the last time. The Bill abolishes the monarch’s power to disso...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was quite wrong. This has been a very zestful debate—positively sparkling. I congratulat...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1233-4 (Link to this contribution) 55B: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause— ““General election for Scottish Parliament not...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1231-2 (Link to this contribution) Think, like the right honourable Nick Clegg, about giving the public more control over their politic...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1232-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, for these amendments. My immediate respon...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1230-1 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that it would. There are drafting issues and the noble Lord is right about that, but t...

Lord Norton of Louth | 726 c1231 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I was going to suggest that he is. In circumstances that he suggested that it is the incoming P...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1235-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, for his kind remarks. I als...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1235 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have absolutely nothing to say on prorogation but I would like to mention the significan...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 726 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) —and for recovering ground that I may have lost yesterday. Somewhat to my surprise, I find myself a...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1124-5 (Link to this contribution) If that was the scenario—a purely hypothetical one—I think my party would have a challenging time ma...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 726 c1131-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, after the words in Clause 2(3)— "““A certificate under this section is conclusive for all ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1119-20 (Link to this contribution) The modern trend in constitutionality is that you do not wish the monarch to make any decision that ...

Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 726 c1118-9 (Link to this contribution) It is possible to see very clearly what the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, is trying to achieve. ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c1227 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for his response. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, and ...

Lord Cormack | 726 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution) I was advised by the clerks that this would be the tidy way of doing it—the certificate is issued, i...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 726 c1171-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth was quite correct, as other speakers in this debate h...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 726 c1141-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the speeches that we have heard from the former Speakers speak very eloquently for themsel...

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