Parliamentary search - Identity Documents Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

515 c913-70, (corrigendum) 516 c134;515 c913-70

Session

2010-12

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

Programme motions
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Identity Documents Bill. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 1-EN).
Wednesday, 26 May 2010
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Meg Hillier | 515 c967-70 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) has done exactly as my right hon. Frie...

Speaker | 515 c966 (Link to this contribution) Order. That point is wide of Third Reading, but is a good try none the less.

Show all contributions (155)

Lord Blunkett | 515 c966 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is emotionally attached to the idea of the perniciousness of the scheme, but I wa...

Pete Wishart | 515 c967 (Link to this contribution) It might not have been the right hon. Gentleman who said that and I am sorry if I have characterised...

Lord Blunkett | 515 c967 (Link to this contribution) I promise not to divert us from the issue, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not remember anyone on our side—c...

Pete Wishart | 515 c966-7 (Link to this contribution) It was a good point, and you have rescued me, Mr Deputy Speaker, because I would have found it prett...

Stephen Pound | 515 c966 (Link to this contribution) It was a good point.

Tom Brake | 515 c964-5 (Link to this contribution) This is indeed an historic occasion and it is gratifying that the coalition has been able to deliver...

Keith Vaz | 515 c964 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the former Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Shef...

Julie Hilling | 515 c966 (Link to this contribution) When poor people in the hon. Gentleman's constituency want to open a bank account or do any of the m...

Pete Wishart | 515 c965-6 (Link to this contribution) Good riddance to the most thoroughly bad rubbish. Thank goodness we are standing on the brink of get...

Pete Wishart | 515 c966 (Link to this contribution) This is the thing that the Labour party consistently refuses to appreciate and understand. ID cards ...

Damian Green | 515 c959 (Link to this contribution) Indeed so. This is not an adversarial climate, but the hon. Lady will know as well as I do that stri...

Damian Green | 515 c960 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Department that the hon. Lady used to be responsible for would not put the security of...

Meg Hillier | 515 c960 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister is not hearing what I am saying, perhaps there is an issue about how he is answering...

Lord Blunkett | 515 c962-4 (Link to this contribution) In a speech on Second Reading, when there was a time limit, I paid tribute to campaigning groups tha...

Damian Green | 515 c961-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. It is a huge pleasure to move Third Readin...

Meg Hillier | 515 c959 (Link to this contribution) I fully appreciate that, but I did not actually ask the Minister to answer that question directly. I...

Damian Green | 515 c959 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her questions. As I understand it, in one of them she is suggesti...

Meg Hillier | 515 c958-9 (Link to this contribution) In general terms, Her Majesty's Opposition support the amendments, but I have a number of small poin...

Speaker | 515 c957 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 2 to 4.

Damian Green | 515 c957 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 1, line 9, leave out

Speaker | 515 c949 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

Meg Hillier | 515 c947-9 (Link to this contribution) I was puzzled by the Minister's speech because it sounded more like a rallying cry to a group of stu...

Damian Green | 515 c947 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the hon. Lady. If she wishes to associate herself with such a ridiculous proposal, I ...

Meg Hillier | 515 c947 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister is speaking to the right provision because my name is attached to the ...

Damian Green | 515 c945-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has ingeniously asked the same question as his right hon. Friend the Chairman of ...

Damian Green | 515 c946-7 (Link to this contribution) Let me anticipate what the hon. Gentleman is about to ask. It has always been my intention that when...

Keith Vaz | 515 c945 (Link to this contribution) That is very reassuring, but in his mind and that of the Home Secretary is there a time scale by whi...

Damian Green | 515 c944-5 (Link to this contribution) As a practical point, the vast majority of people who have bought ID cards already have passports, s...

Steve McCabe | 515 c945 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister give the House a categorical assurance that all the information will be destroyed w...

Damian Green | 515 c945 (Link to this contribution) It would be slightly premature for me to give too much detail now because the legislation has not be...

Steve McCabe | 515 c943 (Link to this contribution) I hate to interrupt the Minister when he is in such fine flow, but I just want to suggest to him tha...

Julie Hilling | 515 c944 (Link to this contribution) How much would it cost the taxpayer, though, if people had a £30 credit when they applied for their ...

Damian Green | 515 c943-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made that point, with characteristic eloquence, in his speech, and I will address...

Chris Bryant | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) We have a set of former Ministers for Europe in the Chamber.

Keith Vaz | 515 c937 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Let me say to my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) that he is the las...

Denis MacShane | 515 c937 (Link to this contribution) But we are in the European Union.

Keith Vaz | 515 c937 (Link to this contribution) I meant the mainland European Union. Anyway, before this becomes a debate about the European Union,...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c937 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), although he ...

David Winnick | 515 c937 (Link to this contribution) Who is also quite charming.

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) That goes without saying. I am quite fond of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCab...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) It was indeed defeated, by one vote, because of the good sense of many of the hon. Gentleman's colle...

David Winnick | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is wrong. The previous Government did not give us 90 days. That proposal was defe...

Steve McCabe | 515 c939 (Link to this contribution) On a minor point, this new clause is not asking for compensation per se; it asks for a reimbursement...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c939 (Link to this contribution) The substantive general point, which the hon. Gentleman does not want to concede, is that what is ha...

Speaker | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) Order. It might be helpful to the hon. Gentleman to know that he can talk about these matters on Thi...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c939 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak specifically to the proposal about compensation, Mr Deputy Speaker. Please forgive me ...

Speaker | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are discussing new clause 2, and the hon. Gentleman must speak to that.

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) By a circuitous route, Mr Deputy Speaker, I shall speak to that new clause—

Speaker | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) should carry on with the debate on the new clau...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) I shall defer to the good sense of the Deputy Speaker and pass over those issues. I am mindful, of c...

Steve McCabe | 515 c938 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the hon. Gentleman, whom I respect, whether the best symbol of a Government's faith in...

Grahame Morris | 515 c939-40 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to contribute to the debate. Labour Members fully und...

Grahame Morris | 515 c941-2 (Link to this contribution) The scheme is in its infancy and, essentially, it was only marketed in two areas—Manchester and Lond...

Damian Green | 515 c942 (Link to this contribution) We have heard a festival of synthetic indignation from Labour Members over the past hour or so. We k...

Steve McCabe | 515 c942 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Damian Green | 515 c942-3 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment, after I have paid tribute to the hon. Gentleman's colleague, the hon. Member for...

Grahame Morris | 515 c940-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the Government's arguments have been effective. Aspects of the scheme deserve to...

Pete Wishart | 515 c941 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is already a very assiduous constituency Member of Parliament. When c...

Grahame Morris | 515 c941 (Link to this contribution) That is dangerous territory, which we explored earlier today and in Committee. If that principle is ...

Guy Opperman | 515 c941 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks about this being a dereliction of duty and so forth, but this is a scheme c...

Heather Wheeler | 515 c940 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Gentleman that those who write to me in my constituency are asking me to scrap the...

Speaker | 515 c940 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady's intervention is far too wide of what we are discussing at the moment.

Julie Hilling | 515 c913-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to move a new clause to a Bill in the House for the first time. New clause 1 rela...

Speaker | 515 c913 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 7, in clause 2, page 2, line 12, at end insert—...

Meg Hillier | 515 c915-6 (Link to this contribution) I echo the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling). In Committee...

Meg Hillier | 515 c917 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that the Minister tells us that she wrote on her blog about the issue, as though that is...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c916-7 (Link to this contribution) As Members know from my comments on a similar amendment in Committee, I very much support initiative...

Catherine McKinnell | 515 c917 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c917 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is pushing it. That was not an answer to the formal question. I mentioned my blog to i...

Steve McCabe | 515 c918 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If the contents of the hon. Lady's blog are germane to the ...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c917 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way at the moment. I will finish the point I am making. The responses to the blo...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c918 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will answer the formal question from the hon. Member for Hackney Sou...

Speaker | 515 c918 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, the blog is not a document, so that is not the case.

Bridget Phillipson | 515 c918 (Link to this contribution) So what the Minister is telling us is that the Government did not carry out an equality impact asses...

Speaker | 515 c920-1 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Meg Hillier | 515 c920 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Julie Hilling | 515 c920 (Link to this contribution) I was not a Minister and cannot answer that point, but I thought that we were supposed to have impac...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c920 (Link to this contribution) We have agreed that it is an important issue and I understand that there was only one case of dual i...

Julie Hilling | 515 c919-20 (Link to this contribution) I am a new Member, and this is the first time that I have been through this process. However, a Bill...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c919 (Link to this contribution) As I have already explained to the hon. Lady, we are taking formal Government routes, too. Indeed, w...

Meg Hillier | 515 c919 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled that that proposal has come out of leftfield one might say—but perhaps with this coalit...

Baroness Featherstone | 515 c918-9 (Link to this contribution) No, that is not exactly what I said. The impact assessment for the Bill was published on 4 June 2010...

Guy Opperman | 515 c921 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady expect the repayment to be made to those persons who received that particular fac...

Meg Hillier | 515 c921 (Link to this contribution) I shall not rehearse all the arguments that were made in Committee, but the Opposition are concerned...

Meg Hillier | 515 c922 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had had the courtesy to listen, he would have heard me deal with that point at...

Robert Halfon | 515 c923 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way in the course of such an impassioned speech. Does he agree...

Pete Wishart | 515 c923 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Lady's intervention. We told people who were thinking about taking out an...

Meg Hillier | 515 c924 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear the Scottish National party's position. In fact, people could not easily app...

Pete Wishart | 515 c924 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, because I have that quote from the right hon. Member for Doncas...

Meg Hillier | 515 c922-3 (Link to this contribution) That is not what we are suggesting, as the hon. Gentleman would see if he read the new clause. As I ...

Aidan Burley | 515 c922 (Link to this contribution) We learned in Committee that of the 14,670 ID cards that were issued, almost 3,000 were given free o...

Catherine McKinnell | 515 c923 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the very strong feelings that the hon. Gentleman is conveying, but I want to draw out h...

Pete Wishart | 515 c923 (Link to this contribution) I rise vigorously to oppose the new clause. We have to be absolutely and abundantly clear about the...

Pete Wishart | 515 c924-5 (Link to this contribution) If you will allow me, Mr Deputy Speaker, because we are straying somewhat from the terms of the deba...

Denis MacShane | 515 c926 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) was eloquent and I agree with much of what he said, ...

Robert Buckland | 515 c925-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), who, ...

Aidan Burley | 515 c927 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his decision to buy an ID card, whether or not he intended to...

Denis MacShane | 515 c927 (Link to this contribution) I am terribly sorry, but I obtained my ID card and paid my £30. The new Government are rightly seeki...

Damian Green | 515 c926 (Link to this contribution) Don't even think about it.

Denis MacShane | 515 c926 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is quite right. However, it was my money that paid for my ID card, and the state has no...

Guy Opperman | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) I shall not detain the House long, but the Bill has rightly been described as a long march. The prev...

Denis MacShane | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) Let me ask the hon. Gentleman a question so I can get this clear: if he voluntarily buys a house and...

Damian Green | 515 c927 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was in danger of coming close to a serious point, and I thought it deserved...

Denis MacShane | 515 c927 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that hair-splitting point. My passport remains the property of the state, but the ...

Guy Opperman | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) A variety of things could happen in that situation, not least suing the council. I can assure the ri...

Pete Wishart | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) That is not so much the key point as the context of such decisions. When lots of people are saying, ...

Michael Ellis | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Guy Opperman | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) Of course.

Michael Ellis | 515 c928 (Link to this contribution) To continue the example of the house sale, an individual buying a house despite knowing that there i...

Guy Opperman | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) The position has been explained and I am sure that it is fully comprehended. We should not detain ou...

Meg Hillier | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) Liberty is also in favour of removing ID cards for foreign nationals, or biometric identity document...

Speaker | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) Order. I do not think that the permits are part of the debate, and we are being drawn into other are...

Damian Green | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) inadvertently misled the House by say...

Guy Opperman | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I have in any way drawn Members into other areas. The short answ...

Speaker | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that the debate is quite tight and that he should speak to th...

Aidan Burley | 515 c930 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that this proposal would cost a relatively modest amount, but does he have a...

Denis MacShane | 515 c930 (Link to this contribution) It is a narrow point, but it is an important point. Since 1945, there have been many elections—altho...

Steve McCabe | 515 c930 (Link to this contribution) There is a principle here, and that is my point. People bought these cards in good faith. It is all ...

Guy Opperman | 515 c929 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to go any further on that point. My final point is that we should not sign up to pro...

Steve McCabe | 515 c929-30 (Link to this contribution) I, too, do not want to take too long on new clause 2 and in speaking to amendment 8. I enjoyed the c...

Nigel Mills | 515 c932 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe). I h...

Steve McCabe | 515 c931-2 (Link to this contribution) Let me be blunt. I may find myself loyally serving my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster Nor...

Julie Hilling | 515 c932-3 (Link to this contribution) Hon. Members on both sides have been extremely rude to constituents of mine who have written to me a...

Pete Wishart | 515 c931 (Link to this contribution) I just wanted to give the hon. Gentleman an opportunity to say whether he is in line with the thinki...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) In all fairness, the hon. Lady should concede that it was almost unprecedented in all the polices ta...

Steve McCabe | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) Every vote counts!

Julie Hilling | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) Especially in a marginal. I have received letters from about a dozen people in my constituency, and...

Nigel Mills | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady confirm my understanding that those constituents will already have had a passport...

Keith Vaz | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) Let me say to my right hon. Friend, the former Minister for Europe—

Denis MacShane | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend—for whom I worked as a Parliamentary Private Secretary for man...

Keith Vaz | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately I did not know about those points until they were made. Had I known that they would be...

Jim Cunningham | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick): Michael Howard had ...

Speaker | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) Order. Let me remind hon. Members that we are discussing new clause 2. These points are not relevant...

David Winnick | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) As for the previous Government, obviously there was controversy among Labour Members on the subject—...

Keith Vaz | 515 c936 (Link to this contribution) I cannot say for certain, but my hon. Friend is wiser and has been in this House for longer than me,...

David Winnick | 515 c935 (Link to this contribution) Walsall North—the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) is your sister.

Keith Vaz | 515 c935 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for reminding me—I think I just about know the difference between my sister a...

Keith Vaz | 515 c935 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend: it is a lot of money for some people, but it is not clear whether there...

Julie Hilling | 515 c934-5 (Link to this contribution) I remain absolutely convinced that my constituents deserve fair treatment. They deserve either to ha...

Speaker | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) Order. Members are getting carried away with interventions, and we ought to stick to the point. Mr M...

Catherine McKinnell | 515 c935 (Link to this contribution) Just to clarify whether £30 is a significant amount, in fact, we are not talking about £30; we are t...

Keith Vaz | 515 c935 (Link to this contribution) I have known you long enough to know that when you frown in the way that you have, Mr Deputy Speaker...

Julie Hilling | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for making that point, because I agree with her absolutely. If someone buys ...

Louise Mensch | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for being so generous in giving way. I put it to her that her constituents oug...

Julie Hilling | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady does not quite understand that my party, the loyal Opposition, does not have the power...

Denis MacShane | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) Can we nail this extraordinary new constitutional doctrine that because a party thinks it is going t...

Julie Hilling | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) My constituents could not have foreseen at that point that there would be a Con-Dem coalition. How c...

Catherine McKinnell | 515 c934 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that many of the constituents who have written to us and who we deal with,...

Damian Green | 515 c957-8 (Link to this contribution) The amendments address an issue that was much discussed in Committee. They are not central to the Bi...

Julie Hilling | 515 c913 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Steve McCabe | 515 c930-1 (Link to this contribution) Fortunately, I do not suffer from the voodoo economics of Conservative Members, so I do not have a c...

Michael Ellis | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) May I ask how many of her constituents wrote to her about this?

Julie Hilling | 515 c933 (Link to this contribution) I will happily answer that question. The only people who prior to the election could get an ID card ...

Notes

Daily part printing error - Justin Tomlinson added in the Noes at Division No.63 515 c952.

Subjects

Civil liberties

Databases

Biometrics

Costs

Fraud

Fees and charges

Identity cards

Personal records

National identity register