UK Parliament / Open data

Child Poverty Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 8 February 2010, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
717 c97-146GC 
Session
2009-10
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Child Poverty Bill. As amended in Grand Committee.
Monday, 8 February 2010
Bills
House of Lords
Child Poverty Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 21 also published. (Lords Minutes).
Thursday, 10 December 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2010-0407
Monday, 8 February 2010
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Northbourne | 717 c126GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for what he has just said. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. A...
Lord Freud | 717 c132-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response, and the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for his thoughtful views....

Show all contributions (130)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c101GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to prolong this; I think that we are probably almost there. There is no disagreement t...
Lord Freud | 717 c108-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. Of course, I was not implying that the only thing that infl...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c103GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a point of information, it absolutely does. I have been there, done it and seen the evi...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c116-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister has probably just shot my fox. However, in view of the fact that we will ente...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c116GC (Link to this contribution) 41: Clause 8, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““(5A) In preparing a UK strategy, the Secretary of St...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c115-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to deal first with the contribution of the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley. I h...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c120GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may just interpose a couple of questions. I understand the reason for the amendment. I lis...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c123-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I can give both noble Lords the reassurances that they seek. The amendment wou...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c124-5GC (Link to this contribution) 48: Clause 9, page 5, line 23, at end insert— ““( ) must consult such parents, or organisations work...
Lord Freud | 717 c145GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, but in this case I am baffled by how she could ever accuse me of saying ...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c129GC (Link to this contribution) 59: Clause 13, page 9, line 8, at end insert— ““(7) The Secretary of State shall take account of— (a...
Lord Freud | 717 c128GC (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for their indulgence in allowing me to pull up this one issue. If the Minister h...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c128GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has been clear on that. I shall have to revert to him because we do not have to hand ...
Lord Freud | 717 c126-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I briefly touched on this issue last month but we were pushed for time and the Minister di...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c126GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, for speaking again to the amendment and the nobl...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c127GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when the noble Lord moved the amendment on non-financial targets he took up three and a ha...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c127GC (Link to this contribution) Flowing from that, I suggest to the Minister that if they are going to supply this information the G...
Lord Freud | 717 c134-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness. I do not really care about how it happens; all I want the Committee to h...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c136-7GC (Link to this contribution) I should have given notice that I wanted to raise one or two questions about Clause 17. They flow st...
Lord Freud | 717 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am as relieved as everyone else that we have finally reached Part 2, which I believe that we will ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c138-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for his amendments. I always consider his amendments carefully; ...
Lord Freud | 717 c134GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is the million-dollar amendment: do statutory targets work? Let us take a hypothetica...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c133GC (Link to this contribution) 66: Clause 15, page 10, line 9, at end insert— ““( ) Nothing in this section must impact on the Secr...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c134GC (Link to this contribution) Forgive me, but that is not my point. The point is that if incomes all fell, the median figure would...
Baroness Meacher | 717 c98-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I oppose the amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Freud, would readily acknowledge that it is i...
Lord Freud | 717 c97GC (Link to this contribution) 37: Clause 8, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) When considering taking any measures under subse...
Lord Freud | 717 c101GC (Link to this contribution) We disagree with that conclusion, but for the time being I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Ame...
Lord Freud | 717 c100-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response and the noble Baronesses, Lady Meacher and Lady Walmsley, and...
Baroness Walmsley | 717 c99GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these Benches, too, oppose the amendment. I shall be as brief as possible in the hope that...
Earl of Listowel | 717 c100GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister talked about what the Government are doing in terms of interventions for fami...
Lord Freud | 717 c108GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, and the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for their ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c108GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not saying that it does not matter; I am saying that it is not the sole consideration...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c106-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for his interesting amendment and the interesting but ...
Lord Freud | 717 c109GC (Link to this contribution) 39: Clause 8, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) In preparing a UK strategy, the Secretary of Sta...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c110GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, have an amendment at this point of the Bill, which I shall move shortly, and it is...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c111-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was referring to the fact that some looked-after children and homeless children are not ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c118-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, for the amendment. As she anticipated, I will tru...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c121GC (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister therefore be prepared to accept ““Secretaries of State””?
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c121GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is important to reiterate our policy intention in setting up a Child Poverty Commission...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) I feel myself again exposed on this issue. The terms and manner in which the Bill is drafted are fai...
Lord Freud | 717 c123GC (Link to this contribution) 45A: Clause 9, page 5, line 21, at end insert— ““( ) must consult the Four Nations Forum on Child Po...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is making heavy weather of this point. He is absolutely right that some of the quite ...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c140GC (Link to this contribution) If the Minister’s assurance in relation to a similar, earlier amendment to the Bill applies, I will ...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 77 withdrawn. Clause 22, as amended, agreed. Cla...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c142GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the evening is young and I will move this amendment briefly. The Minister has explained ag...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c144GC (Link to this contribution) Again, I take it that there is support for targets but some equivocation about whether the targets s...
Lord Freud | 717 c143GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, is quite right to table an amendment to the Short Title ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c143-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought we were going to end on a note of consensus, but seemingly not. Noble Lords may ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c144-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am completely confused by the noble Lord’s position and it is getting worse as we go on. At the be...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c129GC (Link to this contribution) 56: Clause 12, page 8, line 17, leave out first ““or”” and insert ““and”” Amendment 56 agreed. Cla...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c129GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when I used to work in my party’s Whips Office I used to despair that some Peers working o...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c130GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Clause 13 requires the Secretary of State to lay an annual report before Parliament on pro...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c130-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry that my little amendment has not found more favour with the Grand Committee. It...
Lord Freud | 717 c126GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments were briefly alluded to on 21 January. As then, I agree with them entirel...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c136GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to prolong the agony here. I think that the targets in Part 1 are judicially...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c135-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall try to answer that. The duty in the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act was different. In...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that the issue has been the subject of some draft correspondence with the Law Society of S...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c132GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, long-term poverty and the material deprivations that can result can reinforce the negative...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c131GC (Link to this contribution) Very briefly, I support the amendment. I do so simply on the basis that I believe—although I stand t...
Lord Freud | 717 c131GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the motivation behind the amendment is to ensure that we do not lose focus on the most poo...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c133-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had intended to make an exhaustive examination of the textual content of Clause 15, but ...
Lord Freud | 717 c97-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have tabled this amendment in order to highlight the futility of seeking to eradicate ch...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his amendment and the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, think that this is an interesting amendment, but I agree that it is out of place. ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c103-5GC (Link to this contribution) This is an interesting amendment, but it is frankly irrelevant to the Bill because it is part of all...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c112-3GC (Link to this contribution) This is clearly a probing amendment. It raises a rather specific issue on which I seek the opinion o...
Lord Freud | 717 c118GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, has indicated, she suspects that her fox may have been shot. We ...
Lord Freud | 717 c119GC (Link to this contribution) 45: Clause 9, page 5, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of State is to give the Commission...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) Conventionally, when one refers to ““Secretary of State””, it may be any Secretary of State, because...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c120-1GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, in what he has said. I also support the noble Lord, Lord Fr...
Lord Freud | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response, which seems to pull back a little from what he said last mon...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c124GC (Link to this contribution) 47: Clause 9, page 5, line 22, leave out first ““or”” and insert ““and”” Amendment 47 agreed. Amen...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 717 c123GC (Link to this contribution) As an appendix to that, I obviously agree with the thrust of the amendment. There is a feeling in Sc...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c145GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord’s line seems to be that he would do everything short of any actual redistribution of ...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c146GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have not suggested in my amendment that the title of the Bill should not reflect child p...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c146GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the time being, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 83 withdrawn. Claus...
Lord Freud | 717 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response, although I confess that I disagree with it. This Government c...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c140GC (Link to this contribution) 76: Clause 22, page 14, line 1, leave out first ““or”” and insert ““and”” Amendment 76 agreed. Ame...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c140GC (Link to this contribution) 77: Clause 22, page 14, line 2, at end insert— ““( ) must consult such parents, or organisations wor...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) 80: Before Clause 25, insert the following new Clause— ““Free school lunches and milk (1) In section...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c142GC (Link to this contribution) 81: Clause 28, page 16, line 8, leave out ““extends”” and insert ““and section (Free school lunches ...
Lord Freud | 717 c144GC (Link to this contribution) It is important at this stage to clarify this because you never know what will appear in the Guardia...
Lord Freud | 717 c145GC (Link to this contribution) I have to respond to the noble Baroness. I do not accept in any way that trying to tackle the causes...
Lord Freud | 717 c144GC (Link to this contribution) As we have just discussed, it is not yet clear to me, nor I think to the Liberal Democrat Benches, e...
Lord Freud | 717 c130GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, throughout the debates on the Bill it is clear that we are not all on the same page about ...
Lord Freud | 717 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response. I look forward to further intelligence on the statistics....
Lord Freud | 717 c131GC (Link to this contribution) 62: Clause 14, page 9, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of subsection (1)(a), (b) and ...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c127GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may clarify whether the amendment is meant to be about households with children....
Lord Freud | 717 c126GC (Link to this contribution) 49: Clause 9, page 5, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) must collect statistics on the number of— (i) ho...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought I provided a full response to this amendment in the first session last week and ...
Lord Freud | 717 c127GC (Link to this contribution) It is, of course, driven by the need to record households with children. That is what it is about. I...
Lord Freud | 717 c135GC (Link to this contribution) This is a question whose answer I am not absolutely sure of myself. Are not the targets in this Bill...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c135GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall start by answering the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, to see whether, at least on this...
Lord Freud | 717 c137GC (Link to this contribution) 72: Clause 20, page 12, line 29, leave out ““each”” and insert ““those””
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 717 c134GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, what assumptions is the noble Lord making in his analysis of a recession and the impact th...
Lord Freud | 717 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. Let us just assume a disastrous position, for the sake of a...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 717 c97GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as ...
Lord Freud | 717 c101GC (Link to this contribution) 38: Clause 8, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) In preparing a UK strategy, the Secretary of Sta...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c100GC (Link to this contribution) I have no briefing on that but I am happy to take the point away and see whether I can get an answer...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c101GC (Link to this contribution) I for one am completely unclear as to what the noble Lord is suggesting should be done about a situa...
Lord Freud | 717 c101GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for the question. I do not have the answer to this problem. It would be very ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to prolong the discussion because we need to finish today, but is the noble Lord sayin...
Lord Freud | 717 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, for making that point. The fact is that, until this year, t...
Lord Freud | 717 c101-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment deals with the poverty trap, as it used to be called, and the iron triangle...
Lord Freud | 717 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for the question. As he knows, the actual figures are subject to—what is the wo...
Lord Freud | 717 c109-10GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am conscious that in this amendment I am moving well away from the area of financial tar...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 39 and 58 seek to ensure that both the UK strategy and the annual progress repo...
Lord Freud | 717 c112GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for saying towards the close of his remarks that the Government will look at ho...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c112GC (Link to this contribution) 40: Clause 8, page 4, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) In preparing a UK strategy, the Secretary of Sta...
Baroness Walmsley | 717 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have enormous sympathy with the intentions and objectives of the noble Lord, Lord Northb...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c114-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, on his 50th wedding anniversar...
Lord Freud | 717 c114GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, makes some important points with his amendment. I am ple...
Lord Freud | 717 c119-20GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment follows on from the interesting debates we had on 21 January on the appointm...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 717 c119GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply and the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for his contribution. I look for...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to prolong this. I am grateful to my noble friend for coming to my assistance on that ...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) Then I speak, for the moment, against the whole Government, because what is important is not the per...
Lord Freud | 717 c124GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. This was very much a probing amendment to discover how these...
Lord Freud | 717 c123GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment was suggested by the Law Society of Scotland. Simply, it pointed out that existing wo...
Lord Freud | 717 c123GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that offer. I very much look forward to reading that letter. On that basis,...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c122GC (Link to this contribution) I have answered that as best as I am able. To clarify the whole issue, I think that I should write t...
Lord Northbourne | 717 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, by agreement with the Minister, and I have checked it with the Clerk, I am entitled to mov...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c145-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I can return to responding to the amendment. That exchange was illuminating; it is...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c146GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in a phrase, this Bill is about child poverty—that is its framework, that is what it is di...
Lord Freud | 717 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. The point I am making is slightly different. By having an absolu...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c141GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I confirm that we propose to table an amendment to cover this as well.
Lord Northbourne | 717 c142GC (Link to this contribution) 83: Clause 30, page 16, line 14, after ““the”” insert ““Household Income and””
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 717 c142GC (Link to this contribution) 81A: Clause 29, page 16, line 10, after ““2”” insert ““and section (Free school lunches and milk)”” ...
Subjects
Disability
Children
Devolved matters
Children in care
Alcoholic drinks
Disadvantaged
Costs
Cohabitation
Employment
Families
Gambling
Drugs
Homelessness
Ethnic groups
Economic situation
Free school meals
Marriage
Northern Ireland
Parents
Poverty
Public consultation
Misuse
Minority groups
Lone parents
Scotland
Social security benefits
Welfare tax credits
Wales
Registration of births, deaths, marriages and civil partnerships
Child Poverty Commission
Legislation
Child Poverty Bill 2008-09 to 2009-10
Link
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