Parliamentary search - Fiscal Responsibility Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

503 c63-137

Session

2009-10

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Fiscal Responsibility Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 13-EN also published.
Wednesday, 9 December 2009
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Justine Greening | 503 c82 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that part of the problem is that the Government also seem to hav...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c82 (Link to this contribution) I am critical of all the Front Benchers. In the past few days, the official Opposition have been tal...

Show all contributions (139)

Eric Martlew | 503 c81 (Link to this contribution) There is nothing new about that.

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c81 (Link to this contribution) That is true, and it is a sadness for me, but clearly not a big enough sadness to the hon. Gentleman...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c81 (Link to this contribution) I want to explain briefly why I will not be supporting the Government tonight.

George Osborne | 503 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has made a very good observation, which is, in fact, true of government thr...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c80 (Link to this contribution) Is not the truth that the sanction contained in both the Bill and the hon. Gentleman's proposal is t...

George Osborne | 503 c79 (Link to this contribution) At or around the time of the Budget, and the pre-Budget report, the body will publish not just the f...

Geoffrey Robinson | 503 c79 (Link to this contribution) The shadow Chancellor is rightly puzzled about the issue of sanctions that the Treasury might be abl...

George Osborne | 503 c79 (Link to this contribution) It would be rather like the Monetary Policy Committee. It would be independent, but accountable to P...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c79 (Link to this contribution) Might not the arrangement be strengthened further if the body sat in Parliament, mimicking the Congr...

John Redwood | 503 c85 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is another very big difference between 1945 and now? In 194...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c85 (Link to this contribution) There is another, slightly more obvious difference between now and 1945. Then, we had run up a spect...

Graham Stuart | 503 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to follow the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) in emphasisin...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c86 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that our debt-to-GDP ratio fell, in a good way, quite markedly after the...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c85 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I shall not comment on his specific statistics, but merely o...

William Cash | 503 c85 (Link to this contribution) Given my earlier remarks about the true level of debt, would the hon. Gentleman be surprised to hear...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this pressing and impor...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c82 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, but we face something far more immediate than that, as I tried to make plain in my in...

William Cash | 503 c82 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is talking a great deal of sense. Does he agree with my earlier point that ...

Kelvin Hopkins | 503 c82 (Link to this contribution) I usually agree with much of what my right hon. Friend says, but I am alarmed by what he says about ...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c88 (Link to this contribution) I accept my hon. Friend's point. The Bill is near to worthless, but it is a valid point that the Con...

Philip Davies | 503 c88 (Link to this contribution) The only interpretation that anyone can put on the hon. Gentleman's remarks is that the Liberal Demo...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c89 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the SNP aspires to be in coalition with the Conservatives after the general...

David Gauke | 503 c89 (Link to this contribution) I just want to be clear. The hon. Gentleman has set out the argument for cutting spending across the...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) We are getting to the interesting nub of the argument. We are saying that there is not a good reason...

Stewart Hosie | 503 c89 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is getting dreadfully angry. There is a big fight between the Liberal...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c88 (Link to this contribution) Let me come to our proposals in just a moment. People will be keen to hear them.

David Gauke | 503 c88 (Link to this contribution) Those of us who were listening carefully to my hon. Friend's speech at that party conference will kn...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c86-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should avoid a protracted historical discussion, although I always thought that the hon. G...

Kelvin Hopkins | 503 c86 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has referred to 1945, because we had a wonderful Labour Government...

Baroness Burt of Solihull | 503 c88 (Link to this contribution) Given that 70 per cent. of the deficit is structural, and therefore pre-dates the current financial ...

Philip Davies | 503 c89 (Link to this contribution) What have you said then?

Jeremy Browne | 503 c89 (Link to this contribution) No, I have not said that.

Andrew Pelling | 503 c90 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Jeremy Browne | 503 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) I will tell you if you listen. I said that no Department is ring-fenced. I have said not that there ...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c63 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. We are debating the pre-Budget report more ...

Speaker | 503 c63 (Link to this contribution) May I inform the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment standing in the name of the Leade...

George Osborne | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chancellor confirm what he just said—that we are not yet out of recession at the beginning ...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, but I shall first finish dealing with the point made by the right hon. Member for W...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) No. It is important that the right hon. Gentleman recognises that the Bill requires the Government, ...

John Redwood | 503 c63 (Link to this contribution) In 2015 and 2016 under the Bill, if national income rises, the Government can put borrowing up and s...

Bob Spink | 503 c66 (Link to this contribution) Before the Chancellor moves too far from the banking system, would he agree that in order to build p...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c66 (Link to this contribution) Or increased.

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I think that the latter proposition is probably a remote possibility in the current climate, but the...

Lembit Opik | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) While the Chancellor's intention to reduce the public debt significantly through specific targets is...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c65 (Link to this contribution) I shall come on to that point, but as I was saying before I gave way all Governments have rules and ...

Mark Harper | 503 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) In his opening remarks, the Chancellor made much of the need not to reduce the deficit too fast. How...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) I have said so—we have not yet had the figures for the fourth quarter of last year. I have said befo...

William Cash | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) As the Chancellor knows, I have raised the question of the true state of the debt on many occasions....

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c64 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman means Sir Michael Scholar, who is the chairman of the ONS. I have ex...

John Pugh | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chancellor give way?

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress. Perhaps I will give way later. Clause 1 of the Bill imposes three...

David Gauke | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) So it's their fault now?

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely flippant remark. From time to time, Governments need to borro...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Gentleman has a chance to think about these things, he might realise that Governments ...

Lord Barker of Battle | 503 c68 (Link to this contribution) Does the Chancellor believe that, had the Bill been in force earlier in his term of office, or durin...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c68 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not accept that. As I said earlier—the hon. Gentleman might not have been here—prior to 200...

Kelvin Hopkins | 503 c67 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has emphasised the importance of trying at least to moderate, if not reduce, bo...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. I, too, want to reduce borrowing. We have to do more than moderate it—i...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c69 (Link to this contribution) Can the Chancellor give a judgment on just how deflationary those changes in public spending could b...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c71 (Link to this contribution) For the reason stated in the pre-Budget report. I said that there was still a lot of uncertainty abo...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the changes are manageable, and they are the right thing to do. The hon. Gentleman mi...

John Pugh | 503 c70 (Link to this contribution) Following on from a previous question about what would happen if the legislation had been in place e...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) No, because the Chancellor would quite obviously have to come back to the House if circumstances wer...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c71 (Link to this contribution) I very much hope that the hon. Gentleman and I both agree that the Government are accountable to Par...

George Osborne | 503 c71 (Link to this contribution) When the Prime Minister was shadow Chancellor and originally set out his plans for fiscal rules, he ...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c71 (Link to this contribution) My recollection was that when the then shadow Chancellor set out his plans, he set out proposals tha...

Stewart Hosie | 503 c71 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the Chancellor that Parliament should hold the Government to account, on this ...

William Cash | 503 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) On the question of duties, does my hon. Friend agree that the point he is making could equally be ap...

George Osborne | 503 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from "That" to the end of the Question and add:""this House...

George Osborne | 503 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my—I was about to say "my hon. Friend", but that would be to get ahead of ourselves, wo...

John Redwood | 503 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed that during the period in which the Bank of England has been buying a qua...

George Osborne | 503 c74 (Link to this contribution) I take the point that my hon. Friend is making. The Chancellor said in his speech that the great sa...

Baroness Burt of Solihull | 503 c74 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that legislation without sanctions is not worth the paper it is writte...

George Osborne | 503 c77 (Link to this contribution) I am just coming on to my view, which is exactly the same as that of the Governor of the Bank of Eng...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c77 (Link to this contribution) That is what we are proposing to do, but in addition, the Governor of the Bank of England said in th...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c77 (Link to this contribution) I have said that we should halve the deficit over a four-year period, but the hon. Gentleman clearly...

George Osborne | 503 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) This is what the Governor of the Bank of England said when asked—[Interruption.] I know that it come...

George Osborne | 503 c77 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor says that he has the same view as the Governor of the Bank of England—he has just sai...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) Given that less than two years ago the Chancellor forecast that the deficit this financial year woul...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c123-4 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, then perhaps I shall give way if there is time. The Government have s...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c124 (Link to this contribution) I cannot remember whether the hon. Gentleman was here for the Chancellor's opening speech, but he de...

William Cash | 503 c124 (Link to this contribution) In view of the tremendous certainty that the Minister is describing, will she tell us now what net d...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c123 (Link to this contribution) I have no need of sympathy from the hon. Gentleman. As the economy emerges from recession, and exce...

Stewart Hosie | 503 c123 (Link to this contribution) The position has been buttressed globally, but which other G7 country has withdrawn its fiscal stimu...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c123 (Link to this contribution) We are not immediately withdrawing our fiscal stimulus package—I am sure that that will be debated f...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c124 (Link to this contribution) I was going to come to that later in my speech, but given the number of interventions, I might not g...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c124 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way because if I do, I will not get to the end of my speech. The Internation...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c125-6 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is the most unlikely thing in the world. The fact that the fiscal plans cannot be...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c125 (Link to this contribution) Maybe the hon. Gentleman missed it, but there has been a global economic crisis since then. Fiscal ...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c125 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor might be the leader of the Lib Dems by then.

David Gauke | 503 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) This has been a somewhat curious debate. I do not know whether there has been a precedent for such a...

Philip Dunne | 503 c116-8 (Link to this contribution) That helps to explain the differential rates in different countries. I am trying to draw out the sig...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 503 c106 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I suspect that many of the sp...

John Redwood | 503 c103-6 (Link to this contribution) That is a sad truth. All of us who lived through that were miserable about it, but it was good that ...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 503 c107-8 (Link to this contribution) Each situation needs to be looked at on its merits. With the banking sector, there was no alternativ...

John Redwood | 503 c107 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that she supported bank nationalisation. Does she think that it was right to put ...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c112-4 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Members for North Ayrshire and Arran (Ms Clark) and for Dundee, East (Stewar...

Stewart Hosie | 503 c108-12 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to repeat what anyone else has said, but this is a profoundly pointless piece of legis...

Graham Stuart | 503 c123 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise with the Exchequer Secretary's plight this evening. She says that the Government aim to...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c122-3 (Link to this contribution) We must look at things in a wider context. We should remember that unemployment in this country is n...

John Redwood | 503 c122 (Link to this contribution) Why have countries, which borrowed much less and ran a much tighter ship, recovered much sooner?

William Cash | 503 c120 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend recognise the problem that I have presented to my right hon. Friend the Member f...

David Gauke | 503 c120 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. I look forward to reading on tomorrow's blogs reports of the mo...

John Redwood | 503 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed that neither Labour Back Bencher who spoke in the debate has returned to ...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c122 (Link to this contribution) I cannot speak for Back Benchers who may not have been able to get here in time to speak in the deba...

David Gauke | 503 c122 (Link to this contribution) As the Exchequer Secretary runs through the various contributions to the debate, can she recall any ...

Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 503 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) In 1997 the Government established two clear fiscal objectives, which have been maintained since and...

David Gauke | 503 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important point. One of the benefits of an office for budget responsibility...

William Cash | 503 c99 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that there is another factor apart...

Lord Tyrie | 503 c92-4 (Link to this contribution) I did not think it would be possible for anyone's credibility to emerge from this debate weaker than...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c91 (Link to this contribution) It would inform the debate, although one is sceptical about the accuracy of some of the data. Recent...

Lord Tyrie | 503 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend returns to a point that he made in an earlier intervention. I listened to it carefull...

Kelvin Hopkins | 503 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, as I indicated a little while ago that I wanted to interv...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c90 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress. I want the deficit cut, which is why my party has consistently ma...

John Hemming | 503 c91 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my concern that although the Government have a model of the economy writte...

Jeremy Browne | 503 c91 (Link to this contribution) I have acknowledged in the past, and will acknowledge again, that the Chancellor is right to be conc...

Stewart Hosie | 503 c102 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point about recovery from the 1980-81 recession. He wi...

John Redwood | 503 c102 (Link to this contribution) That is a wise observation. Only one Labour Back Bencher is even present to hear of the Government's...

Philip Dunne | 503 c102 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in addition to the Government's historical problems, they have...

John Redwood | 503 c102 (Link to this contribution) I wish the Government would consider seriously the people who are unemployed and would like to set u...

Angela Watkinson | 503 c102 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend stresses the importance of small businesses, which create local jobs for people...

George Osborne | 503 c101 (Link to this contribution) Say what you think!

John Redwood | 503 c100-1 (Link to this contribution) I have made a clear statement about what I believe is the way that works best, and I trust that a fu...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c100 (Link to this contribution) I know that it is politically difficult to say that one is in favour of bringing the 50 per cent. ta...

John Redwood | 503 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We clearly need a lot more growth; I think that that is also com...

David Gauke | 503 c124 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain what would happen if she were in Government in 2012 or 2013 and there were...

John Redwood | 503 c96-9 (Link to this contribution) I remind the House that I have business interests with a multinational industrial company and an inv...

John Redwood | 503 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend tries to tempt me to be a bit more outspoken, but the House knows me all too well—I a...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 503 c82-4 (Link to this contribution) In my view, if we do not cut enough and soon enough, we will not have a currency. The debate about w...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c66 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to the Finance Ministers' meeting in Brussels at the beginning of December...

Andrew Pelling | 503 c116 (Link to this contribution) Is some of that movement in basis points to do with the market discounting the heavy prospective iss...

Lord Darling of Roulanish | 503 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) Let me ask the hon. Gentleman a last time, as it does not seem that I am going to get an answer. If ...

Philip Dunne | 503 c123 (Link to this contribution) Will the Exchequer Secretary give way?

Philip Dunne | 503 c114-6 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have an opportunity to contribute to this debate, on what is the first parliamentary...

William Cash | 503 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on his prescience and look forward to reading the pamphlet that he pro...

Philip Davies | 503 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor appears to be rewriting history as he goes along. He is trying to give the impression...

George Osborne | 503 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an extremely telling point, and I am going to come on exactly to the thre...

Subjects

Accountability

Borrowing

Fiscal policy

Economic situation

Forecasts

National income

Public sector

Public expenditure

Public finance

Public sector debt

Public sector net cash requirement

Standards

Tax collection

Treasury

Legislation

Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2009-10

Contains statistics

Yes

Link

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