Parliamentary search - House of Lords Bill [HL]

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

709 c405-40

Session

2008-09

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses
Private members' bills proceedings

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

House of Lords Bill (HL).
Thursday, 4 December 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c413-5 (Link to this contribution) I feel suitably chastised by the noble Lord, Lord McNally. As I tried to point out to the noble Baro...

Lord McNally | 709 c413 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right. On Lords reform, he and I will march shoulder to shoulder towards an ...

Show all contributions (108)

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c413 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear it. I was hoping that the noble Baroness would say exactly that, because if i...

Lord Norton of Louth | 709 c415 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt my noble friend but that is clearly not the point. We are not being given a ...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c415 (Link to this contribution) I do not follow my noble friend at all on that argument. We are not being given a choice between an ...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c406-7 (Link to this contribution) I must first apologise if my voice does not carry as well as normally because I have a heavy cold. S...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c411-2 (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Steel, who has more experience in more Houses of Parliament than I, th...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c419 (Link to this contribution) My name has also been added to this amendment. I think I made the points that I wanted to make in ri...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c423-4 (Link to this contribution) Not entirely. I am saying that the Government’s own proposals for fundamental reform are clearly sta...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c422-3 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend referred to Bills and eternity; I could not think of a more apt description of the M...

Lord Grocott | 709 c423 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised, although the Minister is a good friend of mine, and encouraged by what he has said: ...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c416 (Link to this contribution) The only reason I have been speaking for a long time is because noble Lords keep asking questions, a...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c417 (Link to this contribution) The only ratting that the Liberal Democrats know about is on their commitment to have a referendum o...

Viscount Bledisloe | 709 c417 (Link to this contribution) Do I take it that the noble Lord’s answer to my question, if expressed briefly and clearly, would ju...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c405-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to speak very briefly to the Motion that the House should go into Committee b...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c425 (Link to this contribution) That is extremely helpful and useful, because I think the Minister said that the Government would no...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c424 (Link to this contribution) The Government’s view on the noble Lord’s Bill, as it is on all Private Members’ Bills, is that we d...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c424 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend confirm that his reason for rejecting this Bill is that it would delay fundamen...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c424 (Link to this contribution) I do not know where my noble friend gets his figure of seven or eight years from. Why should it be s...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my noble friend will not regard this as nit-picking but, in response to various question...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c425 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Government are listening very closely to your Lordships' House, and we will consider o...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c433-4 (Link to this contribution) This is the second amendment that we have to deal with and it goes to the heart of the role and posi...

Lord Norton of Louth | 709 c434 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but I am having difficulty following my noble friend’s understanding of the Bill. Under C...

Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 709 c434 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord enlighten the House as to where in the Bill it says that the commission must meet...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c435 (Link to this contribution) One of the great problems of proposing a purpose clause, which, as the House knows, I oppose, is tha...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c432 (Link to this contribution) I explained that right at the beginning. I said that this is a device. It is a device to enable the ...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c435 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask again the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Gordon, about where in the Bill it sa...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c435-6 (Link to this contribution) Nowhere in the Bill does it say that it must meet in secret but one of the Bill’s flaws is that we h...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c436 (Link to this contribution) I am not proposing a Bill. I have not suggested legislation, although I certainly could do so. If I ...

Lord Tyler | 709 c436 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the noble Lord said first, that the attack he is making on the Bill is not actua...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c436-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I am trying to get to the bottom of what those who propose a statutory Appointments Commission i...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c435 (Link to this contribution) No. For the avoidance of doubt, I will not be seeking the opinion of the House on this. I really wis...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 709 c435 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps ho is proposing Amendment A1B? Is the noble Lord proposing it so that we can all vote agains...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c440 (Link to this contribution) I think I said that I was not going to vote on this amendment. Being true to that, I now beg leave t...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 709 c440 (Link to this contribution) I think noble Lords are aware that the previous amendment was negated. I am about to move that the H...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c439-40 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is quite right, and I stand admonished, of course. We are in Committee. I meant t...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c439 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend and, indeed, to the Minister. Sometimes it feels a little like...

Viscount Goschen | 709 c428 (Link to this contribution) I shall put down a Written Question to get a more precise answer so that I can plan ahead, but 2060 ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c428 (Link to this contribution) It is because of climate change.

Viscount Goschen | 709 c428 (Link to this contribution) I received a terrible shock during the Minister's speech this afternoon to be told that I was not go...

Earl of Caithness | 709 c426 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to see the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, in his place. I apologise to him for not...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) The Government believe that we need to make urgent progress in this matter. As I understand it, the ...

Earl of Caithness | 709 c426-7 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Lord, Lord Lea, has surprised a lot of people, but I am grateful to him for h...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c426 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Earl looks at Hansard, unless it got it wrong, he will see that I said that we have her...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c430-1 (Link to this contribution) We have been around the houses long enough so I should perhaps respond to the debate so far. I start...

Lord Norton of Louth | 709 c429 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend keeps referring to it as a manuscript amendment. It appears on the Marshalled List o...

Viscount Goschen | 709 c429 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend intervened on my remarks, and I could not agree with her more that we need to get to...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c429 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Goschen is actually correct. We are currently debating the manuscript amendment...

Baroness Miller of Hendon | 709 c428-9 (Link to this contribution) I simply have to take issue with my noble friend for talking about the wheezes, tricks and all the o...

Earl of Caithness | 709 c432 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord answer the question that I asked him? Why was this amendment not put down at Sec...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c432 (Link to this contribution) I am terribly pleased that the introduction of this Bill has influenced the Conservative Front Bench...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c432 (Link to this contribution) I do not disagree with any of that. All I am saying is that you cannot describe the voting system fo...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for what he has said about the declaration of the noble and learned Lord, Lor...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) With great respect to the Minister, I have said over and over again that the problem with the White ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to pursue this but it is a very important point. I would understand the point the noble L...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c413 (Link to this contribution) I intend to intervene later, but as the noble Lord has now referred to me twice, I say to him quite ...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c412 (Link to this contribution) At Second Reading, I laid out what I thought the priorities of a Cameron Government would be. Indeed...

Lord Grocott | 709 c415-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has been tempting us to rise, which I have tried to resist, but I have now found that...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c415 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend should not worry. We will be returning to that debate many times in the months and y...

Lord Higgins | 709 c415 (Link to this contribution) It is absolutely clear, as the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has made apparent, that this Bill has nothing...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c407-9 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Tyler was absolutely right. I can listen to debates in the House and be moved b...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c412 (Link to this contribution) That is extremely seductive but I think that the hidden purpose of the Bill is to provide for an all...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c412 (Link to this contribution) What would the noble Lord say would be the situation if, Heaven forfend—I apologise for the inapprop...

Lord Selsdon | 709 c409 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A1A (to Amendment A1) A1A: Line 10, at end insert— "(e) to create an all-appointed House....

Lord Selsdon | 709 c409-11 (Link to this contribution) This morning, I suddenly saw a range of manuscript amendments and I thought that there was dirty wor...

Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 709 c412 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the noble Lord could help noble Lords given his vast experience on the committee—th...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 709 c420 (Link to this contribution) Unlike the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, I have always supported an appointed House. I feel rather guilt...

Lord Williamson of Horton | 709 c419 (Link to this contribution) The cascade of amendments before us, including Amendment 1A, are almost all intended to change or ad...

Lord Desai | 709 c421-2 (Link to this contribution) I will tell my noble friend Lord Dubs what the point of all this is. In a marvellous scene in George...

Lord Dubs | 709 c421 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for that. If she were the only person supporting the amendment, I w...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 709 c421 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my noble friend was here earlier when the point clearly was made that this is not abo...

Lord Dubs | 709 c420 (Link to this contribution) I have an anxiety that when this debate finishes and I go outside, someone from the public who has b...

Baroness O'Cathain | 709 c416 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for allowing me to intervene but I am utterly confused. Will he say on whose...

Viscount Bledisloe | 709 c417 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord saying that if his party is elected at the next election, they will follow that ti...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c416-7 (Link to this contribution) For the past two weeks, and on many occasions, I have come to the House to debate its future. I have...

Lord McNally | 709 c417 (Link to this contribution) When the noble Lord does that, could he draw to Mr Cameron’s attention the precedent of Gladstone’s ...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c417 (Link to this contribution) We would certainly co-operate with the timetable up to the next general election, but I have been at...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) No, I have not yet had that discussion with my right honourable friend. It is not anticipated that t...

Lord Howe of Aberavon | 709 c418 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend may want an escape hatch at this point. We were being treated to fanciful speculatio...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c425 (Link to this contribution) That point is very well taken. I assure noble Lords that the Government have no intention of doing t...

Viscount Bledisloe | 709 c424 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord saying that the Government like three-quarters of the noble Lord’s Bill but that t...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c425 (Link to this contribution) Not for the first time, the Minister has referred to his proposed legislation on discipline in the H...

Lord McNally | 709 c425 (Link to this contribution) I associate myself with that. It would be very dangerous if the Government confronted this House wit...

Lord Selsdon | 709 c433 (Link to this contribution) I feel terribly confused. I have never in my life before come across an Amendment A1A. I never inten...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c433 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A1B (to Amendment A1) A1B: Line 10, at end insert— "(e) to place the appointment of membe...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c434 (Link to this contribution) Yes, very much so. It is ridiculous that we will put the future composition of this House into the h...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c435 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Lord is being disingenuous, but if he looks at the actual Bill, Clause...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c434 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend will have to listen to the end of my speech. The point is that the Bill will create ...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c436 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord withdraw the notion that that is in the Bill?

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c436 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I actually said it was in the Bill. What I said was that the Appointments Commission ...

Baroness Miller of Hendon | 709 c436 (Link to this contribution) I must ask my noble friend, who actually is my noble friend and my ordinary friend outside the House...

Lord Higgins | 709 c440 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly surprised by that. When my noble friend reads Hansard tomorrow, he will see that he sa...

Earl of Caithness | 709 c438 (Link to this contribution) I listened with care to what the noble Lord, Lord Steel, said, but I think his argument is fundament...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c438 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord raises an important point. My reading of the Bill and the advice that I have received...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c437-8 (Link to this contribution) I reply briefly to the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. Frankly, he is trying...

Earl of Caithness | 709 c427-8 (Link to this contribution) I have changed from the old system that we had, and since the 1999 Bill I have been in favour of a f...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c426 (Link to this contribution) I say to my noble friend that that would come as a great surprise to members of the Moseley and King...

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 709 c430 (Link to this contribution) Submitting late amendments obviously gives rise to suspicions. I had a little suspicion, particularl...

Lord Northbrook | 709 c429-30 (Link to this contribution) I want to make technical point about paragraph (c) of the proposed new clause in Amendment A1, which...

Viscount Goschen | 709 c429 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected. "An amendment submitted at the last possible moment before becoming a manuscript ...

Baroness Miller of Hendon | 709 c429 (Link to this contribution) We have seen all kinds of things. I say to the House that I am terribly disturbed by it. Many of you...

Lord Strathclyde | 709 c432 (Link to this contribution) I have said this so many times that I regret that I have to rise yet again at the Dispatch Box, to t...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for again intervening but surely the point here is that the White Paper and the cross-pa...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) I understand that and accept it. I honestly believe that in 1999 Ministers genuinely expected that a...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c431 (Link to this contribution) This is an extremely interesting point. It is clear that there is no definition of stage 2, and ther...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 709 c406 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A1 A1: Insert the following new Clause— "PART A1 PURPOSE OF THE ACT Provisions contained ...

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 709 c439 (Link to this contribution) If I may assist the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, and my noble friend the Minister, we are actually ...

Lord Grocott | 709 c427 (Link to this contribution) I was not here in 1997, but could the noble Earl tell us what his position was then? I assume that i...

Subjects

By-elections

House of Lords

Eligibility

Hereditary peers

Public appointments

Peers

Life peers

Appointments Commission

Legislation

House of Lords Bill (HL) 2008-09

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk