House of Lords Bill [HL]

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of what those who propose a statutory Appointments Commission in the Bill mean by it and what they see in it. The only reason that I said that I was not going to test the opinion of the Chamber was that I thought that was the right thing to do. However, if it is the wish of the Chamber to vote on this, any noble Lord is entirely free to shout "No" when the Question is put by the Lord Speaker if I seek to withdraw the amendment. That is the way the rules of the House work, so the noble Lord will have his opportunity to march through the Lobby. I have been trying to progress on moving my amendment. Let me pray in aid the late Robin Cook. He was a friend to many noble Lords who served in another place. He was in government in 1999 and said at the time that the Government had moved from the 15th-century principle of hereditary to the 18th-century principle of patronage. That is the fundamental flaw in the statutory Appointments Commission. I wonder what he would have made of this proposal. I am very sorry not to see the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan of Rogart, in his place because he played such a leading role in discussions and debates with the late Robin Cook prior to the election in 1997, and we would have valued his contribution today. The point about the Appointments Commission is that nine men and women meeting in secret should choose a House of Parliament. I am sure that there is no other phrase for it. I find something odd in listening to the noble Lord, Lord Steel, in one breath criticising the election of a handful of Members of this House, as provided for in the 1999 Act, by hereditary Peers because of the small numbers of those involved and then, in exactly the same breath, and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, standing up to propose in all seriousness that the entire membership of this House should be chosen by a magic circle of nine people and that they would have a veto on who should sit in this House. Even the political accountability of the Prime Minister in that process would be withdrawn. I find that an extraordinarily reactionary proposal, one that reduces accountability rather than increases it. Therefore, in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Gordon of Strathblane, that is why it must lie four square in the Bill that that should be one of its purposes. The concept of handing all authority to a commission of that kind deserves the fullest scrutiny and debate. I must apologise to my noble friend Lady Miller—she is right to say that she is a friend both inside and outside the House—but surely if we cannot debate something as important as the creation of a commission of nine men and women who will, uniquely, choose who should sit in the House, what on earth would be the point of this House at all? I beg to move.