Parliamentary search - Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

699 c1303-70

Session

2007-08

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. Brought from the Commons. In two volumes. (Explanatory Note HL Bill 16-EN published).
Wednesday, 9 January 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2008-0815
Thursday, 20 March 2008
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Deposited Paper DEP2008-0814
Thursday, 20 March 2008
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Avebury | 699 c1344-8 (Link to this contribution) The attempt by the Government to create a special immigration status for certain categories of peopl...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1348-53 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has spoken with his customary passion and eloquence in opposing the pr...

Show all contributions (119)

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1353 (Link to this contribution) I would be interested to know whether the 50 people to whom the noble Lord referred include the Afgh...

Baroness Henig | 699 c1344 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 180 agreed to. Clau...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1354-5 (Link to this contribution) I note that paragraph 94 of the Explanatory Notes, under the heading ““Special Immigration Status””,...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1354 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted for the noble Lord; I now know where to go for legal assistance if I ever get into tr...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1354 (Link to this contribution) I shall not go back over all those points, but I reaffirm that refugees will still have refugee stat...

Earl of Sandwich | 699 c1354 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has ranged over amendments that are not in this group. I wanted to say a few words on A...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1338-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 166H to 166M: 166H: Schedule 33, page 303, line 31, at end insert— ““The Pol...

Baroness Henig | 699 c1339-41 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 166N: 166N: Clause 180, leave out Clause 180 and insert the following new Clau...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1338 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 166D to 166F: 166D: Schedule 32, page 297, line 43, at end insert— ““(5A) Su...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1338 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 166G: 166G: Clause 178, page 128, line 11, leave out ““Schedule 3 to”” On Qu...

Baroness Henig | 699 c1344 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what the Minister said. Perhaps the Government might reflect further on...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1342-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lady Henig for her very useful input, which has allowed debate on this point...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 699 c1342 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Harris of Richmond added her name to the amendment. She is very sorry that she ...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1342 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, one of the most unhelpful things that can happen is that people have to dodge between one A...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 699 c1341-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my noble friend for missing the preamble to her remarks. However, I think that I hear...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1363 (Link to this contribution) It was not an agreement to the words that now appear in the Bill.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution) I think my noble friend is saying that the wording in the Bill has not been agreed with the POA. Tha...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1364 (Link to this contribution) I limited my intervention purely and simply to the meaning of the words that the noble Lord, Lord Gr...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1364 (Link to this contribution) In giving examples, I attempted to describe the kind of action that might be encompassed in such a d...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1364 (Link to this contribution) I came here hoping that during his address the Minister would give some hope, and I believe that he ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1365 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with my noble friend that having the POA as a constructive partner as we take forw...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1365 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for what he has said. If I had any reputation, it was that as the Oppo...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1365 (Link to this contribution) The Minister should also carefully note that voices other than mine who have spoken here do not shar...

Lord Henley | 699 c1365 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of the record, as the first victim of that ambush as a mere social security Minister at...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1365-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 174A: 174A: Clause 190, page 134, line 21, leave out from ““instrument”” to en...

Lord Avebury | 699 c1355-6 (Link to this contribution) It certainly is a disgrace. I can see that the Minister has no reply to that allegation. He repeated...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1356-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 173: 173: Clause 189, page 134, line 5, leave out from ““officer”” to end of l...

Lord Ramsbotham | 699 c1360-1 (Link to this contribution) I was very interested in all that the noble Lord, Lord Graham, had to say and, if I may say so, the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1361-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a great honour to respond to my noble friend Lord Graham. He is right that Committee is an opp...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1359-60 (Link to this contribution) I am sure it was far better for industrial relations between prison officers and the Government to b...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1360 (Link to this contribution) I was somewhat concerned to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Graham, that the wording in subsection (3...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1363 (Link to this contribution) The 2005 JIRPA was an agreement.

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1363 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says ““reflect””, but is he saying that the wording was agreed with the POA?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1363 (Link to this contribution) It is as well to be absolutely certain that the provisions in the Bill cover those kinds of actions....

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1363 (Link to this contribution) Are not providing food and medication and transporting prisoners to court, which were the first two ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1322 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested in the Minister’s last contribution. I had not appreciated that this criminal o...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1323 (Link to this contribution) I make it clear that the clause applies only to England and that it would obviously be for the Natio...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1323-4 (Link to this contribution) I see that it is confined to England because NHS premises are defined as ““relevant English NHS”” pr...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1324-5 (Link to this contribution) Clause 175 takes us to that part of the Bill which deals with anti-social behaviour disorders in res...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1325-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for his comments on Clause 175 in the sens...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1323 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is unruly in his hospital, I am sure that someone will deal with him.

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1323 (Link to this contribution) Having regard to the sporting prowess of my nation—

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1323 (Link to this contribution) I thought that that would be raised.

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1323 (Link to this contribution) I am the first to do it and have beaten the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, by a long way. This ...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1332 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there is a cigarette paper between me and the noble Lord, Lord West, on the good...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1333-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 166B: 166B: After Clause 175, insert the following new Clause— ““Anti-social b...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1332-3 (Link to this contribution) The way in which the ASBO works is that the individual who is subject to the order is placed under a...

Baroness Walmsley | 699 c1335 (Link to this contribution) If the Government really want to reinforce the syndrome of ASBOs becoming a badge of honour, I can t...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1335-6 (Link to this contribution) Your Lordships’ House is familiar with this argument. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and t...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1336-7 (Link to this contribution) I have to commend the sagacity and the good common sense of the magistrates’ court in Brighton for e...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1337 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 166C: 166C: Schedule 32, page 297, line 11, at end insert— ““(8) Subsection (7...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1337-8 (Link to this contribution) It is the phonetic alphabet; Sorry, I forget where I am. They are largely technical in nature. Amen...

Lord Henley | 699 c1338 (Link to this contribution) I think that this is the first time we have heard the phonetic alphabet used in this House. It ought...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1327-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 166A: 166A: After Clause 175, insert the following new Clause— ““Anti-social b...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1326-7 (Link to this contribution) As I said at the outset—the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, also made the point—ISOs have not b...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c1329 (Link to this contribution) I would like to add a word in support of what the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, has just said. Two ...

Lord Elton | 699 c1329 (Link to this contribution) I shall say much the same thing in rather different words. There can be a good case in principle for...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1328 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, spoke, I grew in sympathy towards the amendment. The tro...

Baroness Walmsley | 699 c1328-9 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, that a degree more flexibility for the cour...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1331-2 (Link to this contribution) Like the noble and learned Lord and the noble Lord, Lord West, I trust the good judgment of magistra...

Lord Elton | 699 c1332 (Link to this contribution) What the Minister has just said—exactly as my noble and learned friend argued—is that we should not ...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1329-31 (Link to this contribution) This has been a short but thoughtful discussion about anti-social behaviour orders. Again, I congrat...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c1331 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister would take us through this line of thinking. In the context of what we were tol...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1369 (Link to this contribution) They at least know when they make the recommendations what the strictures are. They are very importa...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1369 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier in relation to prison officers, pay review bodies will often make awards of more t...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1367 (Link to this contribution) We support the amendment. The pay review bodies set up by the Government report in good faith. If th...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1366-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 174B: 174B: After Clause 190, insert the following new Clause— ““Secretary of ...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c1367 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment. One facet has not been mentioned yet. If we are to have independent pay re...

Lord Ramsbotham | 699 c1367 (Link to this contribution) I too support this amendment very strongly. No doubt the formation of an independent pay review body...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1368-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to respond to the noble Baroness who, I think she said earlier, is now a non-...

Lord Graham of Edmonton | 699 c1368 (Link to this contribution) This is a sensible amendment in the light of recent circumstances. The Minister and his colleagues h...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1369 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Government give evidence to the pay review bodies. Certainly, I have given evidence as...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1369 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and also noble Lords who supported this amendment. I understand t...

Lord Bach | 699 c1370 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1369-70 (Link to this contribution) I was not only referring to staging but to any other changes to the recommendations that the Governm...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 699 c1317 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness agree that the police have an extremely good record on responding to calls a...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1317 (Link to this contribution) I accept that the police are extremely good at responding to any incident on NHS premises. A friend ...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1317-21 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a considered and lengthy response to this set of amendments—for which I apologise in ad...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 699 c1321 (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister clarify two points for me? First, does Clause 170 apply only to England, which he...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1321-2 (Link to this contribution) On the first point, yes, we are talking about England in the context of this particular series of cl...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1322 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the Minister a question in relation to his answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Finl...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 699 c1322 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Baroness is the lawyer and I am not. She may well be right and there may be va...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 699 c1316 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the Government on this clause; this is clearly an important issue. But I also s...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1312 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord say that guidance would be available to us by Report so that at least we could ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1310 (Link to this contribution) If the family is quite rightly stigmatised as the result of a closure order, will the vulnerable adu...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c1312 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal just with the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. What is the diff...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1311-2 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind that a whole raft of measures will have been gone through on this, perhaps I may giv...

Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 699 c1312 (Link to this contribution) I did not wish to interrupt the noble Lord half way through his sentence, but perhaps I may explain ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1310-1 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to all your Lordships who have taken part in this debate. The Minister did not an...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1310 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Baroness makes another very valid point. This would have to be taken case by c...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1311 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to keep on, but I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, for picking up on this. Wha...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1311 (Link to this contribution) On the meaning of the significant or persistent disorder, as with crack house closures, it will be f...

Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c1312-3 (Link to this contribution) I respectfully ask the Minister to take into account that, as a general rule, one really feels that ...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1312 (Link to this contribution) That would be a very helpful suggestion and I would be very happy to do my best to achieve that.

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1316 (Link to this contribution) I very much support all of these amendments. As a judge I have tried a number of cases involving vul...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 699 c1316 (Link to this contribution) They are important in terms of sending a very strong message to healthcare workers, to those who are...

Lord Clinton-Davis | 699 c1316 (Link to this contribution) I am rather innocent in this issue, but I do not see where the amendments fit in. In what way is it ...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 699 c1314-5 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the extension of Clause 170. I regret that I was unable to state that at Second Reading, p...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1313-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 163: 163: Clause 170, page 121, line 38, at end insert ““and (d) any premises ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1313 (Link to this contribution) We will have a look at that in due course, and no doubt we will consider whether these amendments sh...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1313 (Link to this contribution) If I have not taken into account all the various inputs—they are valid, and there is scope for confu...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1313 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if I could expand this point just a little further. We have no control over guidance, parti...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 699 c1309 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister say what the position is for vulnerable adults? If an old grandmother or great gra...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1309-10 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Baroness makes a very valid point. The council has a responsibility to find ot...

Lord Ramsbotham | 699 c1306-7 (Link to this contribution) I have considerable sympathy with these amendments, in line with the growing concern about the dispr...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1306 (Link to this contribution) In starting my role on the Bill, I declare a couple of interests, which I hope will suffice for the ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1304-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 161: 161: Schedule 30, page 285, line 23, at end insert— ““(d) the making of t...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 699 c1303-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1309 (Link to this contribution) First, I congratulate the noble Baroness on getting that legislation passed, because I understand fr...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1308-9 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask one question. The supposition is that the premises will be closed. The Minister said t...

Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 699 c1308 (Link to this contribution) I find that a rather disappointing reply. I cannot see why Amendment No. 161 would make the procedur...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1307-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for their inputs. It is clear that all of us in the Committee understand the imp...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 699 c1353-4 (Link to this contribution) There were 12 defendants but only one was acquitted, and he was represented by me. Much more intelle...

Baroness Walmsley | 699 c1326 (Link to this contribution) What evidence is there that ISOs prevent or reduce reoffending that justifies a further extension of...

Baroness Hanham | 699 c1316-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this clause on disturbances on hospital premises. I know full well that A&E departments ca...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1312 (Link to this contribution) Our feeling is that guidance would be the best way to achieve this rather than trying to put specifi...

Lord West of Spithead | 699 c1344 (Link to this contribution) I have sympathy with what my noble friend is saying. Perhaps we can think about this and have a meet...

Subjects

Children

Criminal proceedings

Criminal investigation

Administration of justice

Armed forces

Crimes of violence

Anti-social behaviour

Hospitals

Inspections

Immigration

Drugs