UK Parliament / Open data

Council Tax (New Valuation Lists for England) Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 7 November 2005, in the House of Commons, led by David Miliband. The answering member was Lord Pickles.
Council Tax (New Valuation Lists for England) Bill. Second reading debate. Amendment negatived on division (166 to 338). Main question agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, Report and Third reading agreed to on division (334 to 166)
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
439 c31-128 
Session
2005-06
Department
ODPM: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Council Tax (New Valuation Lists for England) Bill. Explanatory notes Bill 57-EN also published. (vote)
Thursday, 13 October 2005
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
John Bercow | 439 c78 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman were a lawyer and paid by the word, he would have made sufficient funds by now...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) I take your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker. People’s perception of council tax is important to decidi...

Show all contributions (323)
David Jones | 439 c78 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman mentions revenue neutrality. However, is not it the case that revaluation was p...
Maria Miller | 439 c78 (Link to this contribution) It might be useful to remind the hon. Gentleman about the business rate revaluation, which was also ...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c78 (Link to this contribution) It has already been suggested that we should not stray into matters that concern the Welsh Assembly....
Speaker | 439 c77 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman said that we do not want a long debate on local income tax. We do not want...
Speaker | 439 c77 (Link to this contribution) Order. I sense that the hon. Gentleman is going astray again. The measure is about the postponement ...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c77 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall have to see my Liberal Democrat colleagues outside to finis...
David Burrowes | 439 c84 (Link to this contribution) I shall stick to the essence of the debate, which is not about my proposals but about the Governme...
Kali Mountford | 439 c84 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to be arguing against council tax in principle, rather than merely opposing...
David Burrowes | 439 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) We have heard many opinions today, but there is one incontrovertible fact: people like living in my ...
David Howarth | 439 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, the problem with revaluation should bother the two ...
Speaker | 439 c82 (Link to this contribution) Order. If the hon. Gentleman had been present for a larger part of the debate, he would realise that...
Tom Levitt | 439 c82 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recall that, in the last general election, the Liberals had a website into w...
David Howarth | 439 c82 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for saving me from having to reply to my hon. Friend’s intervention. ...
Speaker | 439 c82 (Link to this contribution) Order. I cannot see how that has any relevance to the Bill.
David TC Davies | 439 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to support the Conservative amendment. I see nothing confusin...
Tom Levitt | 439 c86 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman was referring to you. I think he meant m...
Speaker | 439 c86 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I allow one slip, as has already occurred with another hon. Mem...
David Burrowes | 439 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am also grateful for the concession that funds have move...
Speaker | 439 c84 (Link to this contribution) Order. The debate is not about the level of Government grant; it is about whether the revaluation in...
Brooks Newmark | 439 c85 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be brief. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead) made some excellent ...
Mark Hendrick | 439 c87 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, since 1997, central Government funding has increased in real ...
Speaker | 439 c87 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies) will steer skilfully back within...
David TC Davies | 439 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) That is a perfectly fair comment. I agree that it is an improvement, but we have the ability to lo...
Stephen Crabb | 439 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. Having heard Madam Deputy Speaker’s clear and helpful guidance ...
David TC Davies | 439 c87-8 (Link to this contribution) I am deeply grateful for your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I will try to answer the hon. Gentleman’...
Kali Mountford | 439 c88 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman is making a cogent argument in favour of not going ahead with the revaluation n...
Roger Williams | 439 c90 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting point and he is correct in terms of the numbers of winne...
Stephen Crabb | 439 c90 (Link to this contribution) Ministers in the Assembly have now conceded that the overall tax take has increased and rather than ...
David Jones | 439 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting and lengthy debate and I do not propose to detain Members longer than i...
Brian Binley | 439 c72 (Link to this contribution) On the total tax take, as opposed to the vehicle for collecting tax, does my hon. Friend agree that ...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) We have a rather bizarre debate. On the one hand, the Government are introducing a Bill to postpone ...
Maria Miller | 439 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. With council tax increases of over 70 per cent., it is not ...
Speaker | 439 c75 (Link to this contribution) Order. Probably one of the reasons why we have not heard that argument is that it forms no part of t...
Mark Pritchard | 439 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) : The logic of the hon. Gentleman’s position seems to be that as people become more asset rich, the ...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) I have no intention of going down that line, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Conservative party wants to ke...
Brian Binley | 439 c76 (Link to this contribution) I am becoming rather confused. Does the hon. Gentleman want the Government to proceed with revaluati...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c76 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will have to wait to hear my full exposition. To put him out of his misery tempor...
Paul Beresford | 439 c76 (Link to this contribution) There is a slight flaw in the hon. Gentleman’s argument. The fact that the council tax banding syste...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made some interesting and thoughtful remarks about maintaining the position of co...
David TC Davies | 439 c64 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the vast majority of the population’s lack of comprehension explains why Ministers ...
Graham Stringer | 439 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point aggressively, but when the council tax was set up by a Conservati...
David Leslie Taylor | 439 c65 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend was a distinguished leader of one of the largest authorities in England before his el...
Celia Barlow | 439 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) Members on both sides of the House are aware of the importance of a good relationship between people...
Paul Beresford | 439 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) We have heard several thoughtful speeches—the last two were good examples. It must be accepted that ...
David Howarth | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) If the local income tax system is unworkable, why does it work in Denmark and the United States?
Graham Stringer | 439 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for that guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I shall try, with your guidance in mind, to answe...
Speaker | 439 c65 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am afraid that the Bill relates to the dates of revaluation of council tax.
Graham Stringer | 439 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was in his place previously, but if he had listened to what...
David Jones | 439 c66 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept, however, that the people of Wales are extremely angry that they are ...
Celia Barlow | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) I thank you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. The challenge that we are faced with today is n...
Mark Pritchard | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has clearly thought through her speech; it is a measured speech. I am interested in he...
Celia Barlow | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) The circumstances of the local income tax, as outlined in the Liberal Democrats’ proposals, were unw...
Speaker | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Lady that we are asked to confine the debate today to the Bill before...
Maria Miller | 439 c72 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. In areas such as my constituency in north Hampshire, where ...
Paul Beresford | 439 c71 (Link to this contribution) The trick with the Government’s claim that revaluation will be revenue neutral is that nationally, i...
Maria Miller | 439 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this opportunity to speak about council tax, because the issue is causing immense concern ...
Celia Barlow | 439 c70 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. If I may return to England, in the south-east and in my local auth...
Celia Barlow | 439 c69 (Link to this contribution) I understand from guidance from Madam Deputy Speaker that we are dealing with matters in England rat...
Sarah Teather | 439 c56 (Link to this contribution) First, we have always envisaged a two-stage process. We would need to scrap council tax and implemen...
Sarah Teather | 439 c56 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to avoid discussing the detail of local income tax, but hon. Members cannot resist it a...
Speaker | 439 c56 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have allowed some digression but could we please now get back to the subject of the Bill, w...
Sarah Teather | 439 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to make a point about what the Bill omitted, but clearly we shall have to have that det...
Speaker | 439 c56 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Lady that the Bill deals with revaluation and not local government finance ...
Sarah Teather | 439 c57 (Link to this contribution) No, I am about to finish. It is rather like asking a vegetarian whether they would prefer steak or ...
Paul Beresford | 439 c58 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. Gentleman’s opening shots with interest. He is comparing rates with counc...
David S Borrow | 439 c58 (Link to this contribution) In getting back to the subject of this Second Reading debate, I should begin by pointing out that,...
David S Borrow | 439 c58 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with that point now. Let us contrast such revaluations with the revaluation of business...
David Heath | 439 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking a great deal of sense. But I am concerned about the sanguine view that...
David S Borrow | 439 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) I come back to the experience of regular revaluations for business rates. When revaluations took pla...
Sarah Teather | 439 c62 (Link to this contribution) But some people, such as those who rent, have no assets to liquidise and for council tenants in part...
David Curry | 439 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) From my reading of the Sunday papers I understand that the Cotswolds are no longer what they used ...
David Heath | 439 c61 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was talking about houses that had changed hands or been improved, but there...
David Curry | 439 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) This is a grubby little Bill that reflects a very English mess. If we build new houses—and the Deput...
Graham Stringer | 439 c64 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may completely understand local government finance, and I shall give way to him...
Graham Stringer | 439 c64 (Link to this contribution) My contribution will be short. When Albert Einstein wrote the general theory of relativity it was sa...
David Curry | 439 c62-4 (Link to this contribution) If we have a property-based tax, a remorseless logic follows from it, which is that properties must ...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c53 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once more, but it will be the last time. I really must make progress.
Nick Raynsford | 439 c53 (Link to this contribution) There is no such intention in England. The commitment was to ensure a revaluation based on the curre...
Nick Hurd | 439 c53 (Link to this contribution) : Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 439 c52 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind Members that the Bill currently before the House has no reference to Wales? I ca...
David TC Davies | 439 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your advice. I merely wish to point out that Welsh A...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c52 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to bring my remarks to an end, and the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar has led me in...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c52 (Link to this contribution) As we have debated frequently in the past, the situation in Wales was very different, because there ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c52 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman a very straightforward question: if what he says is correct, ...
Sarah Teather | 439 c55-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that. I was about to do what I do every time I debate this issue here and remind hon...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c56 (Link to this contribution) : In a previous debate, the hon. Lady said that under her proposal for a local income tax there woul...
Sarah Teather | 439 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall answer that question during my speech. If the hon. Gentleman listens carefully, he will hear...
Sarah Teather | 439 c55 (Link to this contribution) I mentioned the key word ““Wales””, so I must give way.
David TC Davies | 439 c55 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady may be pleased to know that I am not going to talk about Wales. She said that the coun...
Nick Hurd | 439 c53 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled by the right hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that there may be more winners than losers. If...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c53 (Link to this contribution) I merely said that, in the absence of official figures, evidence from the RICS and the Halifax impli...
Sarah Teather | 439 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) Remarkably, this is the only Bill to emerge from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister in more tha...
David S Borrow | 439 c54 (Link to this contribution) : Would the hon. Lady prefer the council tax revaluation to be postponed until the review of local a...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c48 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman rightly highlights that the existing framework provides for revaluation if ...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c48 (Link to this contribution) I regret to say that I cannot support the Second Reading of the Bill. Having said that, the speech b...
David Curry | 439 c48 (Link to this contribution) : Is not it true that between 1.6 million and 1.8 million properties are revalued every year because...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman tries to lead me into territory that I shall probably cover when I reach a later ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c46 (Link to this contribution) Why have costs spiralled so significantly? Given the examples of the Child Support Agency and identi...
David S Borrow | 439 c47 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. When valuations in the current valuation list fo...
Lord Pickles | 439 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting view, but the valuation office notes, which are extensive, do not mention it....
David S Borrow | 439 c46 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Pickles | 439 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) I have told the hon. Gentleman that I will give way. He must be patient. The short-term expediency ...
David Clelland | 439 c51 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the direction that this conversation is taking. Is my right hon. Friend aware tha...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c51 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to the comments made by my ministerial Friends, and they have made it clea...
Stephen Crabb | 439 c51 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Nick Raynsford | 439 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make some progress. I have just given way, and I do not want to take up too much m...
Nick Hurd | 439 c49 (Link to this contribution) : Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that regional property price disparities are at the heart of ...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c49 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. I shall deal with the evidence from the Halifax shortly. Regional trends, which are pa...
David S Borrow | 439 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if there has been little change in relative property values, a...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c50 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. He identifies one of the glaring inconsistencies in the Opposi...
David Howarth | 439 c50 (Link to this contribution) I agree about the need for revaluations in property-based tax systems, and about the fact that polit...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) No, it does not. If the hon. Gentleman had been listening carefully to me, he would understand that ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c44 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on his ingenuity in making an important local point—
Hugh Bayley | 439 c45 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition’s motion states that their complaint is that the Government are delaying rather than ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that my hon. Friend is wrong, but there are a number of indices of the way i...
Lord Pickles | 439 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) I will make a little progress, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me. The public have rumbled the G...
Lord Pickles | 439 c45 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has considerable expertise in the matter, but he would have been advised to liste...
David Miliband | 439 c37 (Link to this contribution) In respect of the first question, the hon. Gentleman had an exchange with my right hon. Friend the M...
Lord Pickles | 439 c37 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that he wants to see a modern and up-to-date database of property values. Are we t...
David Miliband | 439 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will know, as a former Secretary of State, that the omniscience of the ODPM...
John Redwood | 439 c37 (Link to this contribution) : What was the Department’s forecast for the number of grannies and granddads who would go to prison...
David TC Davies | 439 c38 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister says that he has consulted the Welsh Assembly, does he mean that somebody has pick...
David Miliband | 439 c38 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s description of the situation in Wales. He will know that in ...
David Miliband | 439 c38-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the House will agree that I have been generous in taking interventions and I now wish ...
David Miliband | 439 c39 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should listen to this, or he will end up going into the Lobby and doing something...
Lord Pickles | 439 c39-40 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from ““That”” to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:"““...
John Redwood | 439 c40 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the phrase is not so much ““young pretender”” as ““Artful Dodger””. Did my hon. Fri...
Hugh Bayley | 439 c41 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Pickles | 439 c41 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman as soon as I have finished giving this review of the papers, b...
Hugh Bayley | 439 c41 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Pickles | 439 c40-1 (Link to this contribution) Of course my right hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and the Minister is blushing as we speak. ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c41-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not in favour of the revaluation, and I cannot imagine, given all the fuss, why the hon. Ge...
David S Borrow | 439 c42 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Pickles | 439 c41 (Link to this contribution) No, no, I have not finished yet. The only favourable comment that I could find is in the Municipal ...
Hugh Bayley | 439 c41 (Link to this contribution) We are all capable of reading newspaper cuttings—in fact, I expect that most hon. Members who are at...
Lord Pickles | 439 c42 (Link to this contribution) Of course I give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has some knowledge of the subject.
Alan Whitehead | 439 c42 (Link to this contribution) Just for the avoidance of doubt, will the hon. Gentleman refer the House to section 77 of the Local ...
Speaker | 439 c43 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind all hon. Members of the importance of using only parliamentary language in debate.
Graham Stuart | 439 c43 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend thinks that the Prime Minister decided to postpone the revaluation b...
David S Borrow | 439 c42 (Link to this contribution) I am one of those Labour Members who believes in regular revaluations, so I have some worries about ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c43 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point and could have done so within the terms of debates in this Hou...
Robert Key | 439 c43 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is wholly right to point out that when the council tax was introduced it was received...
Lord Pickles | 439 c43-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend comes to these matters with considerable knowledge and I entirely agree with his poin...
Grant Shapps | 439 c44 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend familiar with another aspect of council tax—that students are not required to pay ...
David Miliband | 439 c31 (Link to this contribution) We will come to that a bit later. Local government is at the heart of national life and has a uniqu...
David Miliband | 439 c31 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. This short two-clause Bill is brought befor...
Speaker | 439 c31 (Link to this contribution) I should inform the House that I have selected the reasoned amendment in the name of the Leader of t...
Lord McLoughlin | 439 c31 (Link to this contribution) We often hear from the Government about the huge increase given from the centre to local government....
David Curry | 439 c33 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm that Sir Michael Lyons said that a delay of one year in revaluation was ju...
David Miliband | 439 c32 (Link to this contribution) I have an embarrassment of riches, but I think that I will choose the future rather than the past.
David Miliband | 439 c31-2 (Link to this contribution) I can give a number of clues. First, council taxes are set locally by local government. Secondly, lo...
John Redwood | 439 c32 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is courteous in the end and I am grateful to him. What was his reaction to the weekend’...
David Miliband | 439 c32 (Link to this contribution) I am a genuine admirer of the hon. Gentleman’s ability to command the attention of the House, but wh...
John Bercow | 439 c32 (Link to this contribution) Obviously the Minister must make a finely balanced judgment between the fiscal position on the one h...
David Miliband | 439 c33 (Link to this contribution) I did not hear all of the right hon. Gentleman’s question, but if he said that while Sir Michael L...
Andrew Turner | 439 c33 (Link to this contribution) Can the right hon. Gentleman, who is a former education Minister, tell me whether the recent White P...
Paul Beresford | 439 c34 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that this Bill effectively puts revaluation in limbo, and that there might b...
David Miliband | 439 c34 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I shall proceed. We are here to discuss the postponement of revaluation and, tempting thou...
John Bercow | 439 c33 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Miliband | 439 c33 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman and I have discussed before, the White Paper provides for a changed role for l...
John Bercow | 439 c33-4 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for generously giving way again. It really is the mer...
Lord Pickles | 439 c35 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is being extremely generous in giving way. All the things that he has just ...
David Miliband | 439 c35 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I cannot allow the hon. Gentleman’s assertion to remain on the record unchallenged....
David Miliband | 439 c34 (Link to this contribution) By definition, if we are not taking a decision now to revalue but are keeping our options open, all ...
David Miliband | 439 c37 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend speaks as a former valuer and therefore brings his expertise to the issue. Nothing ha...
David S Borrow | 439 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) When we have had regular revaluations of business rates, they have always been fixed for the period ...
David Miliband | 439 c36 (Link to this contribution) He is, indeed, my very good friend and he speaks with a great deal of authority on these matters. He...
Nick Raynsford | 439 c36 (Link to this contribution) I hear my hon. Friend’s argument for postponement—I do not agree with it—but I do not understand the...
David Miliband | 439 c35 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman may be referring to the statement of 20 September, which was repeate...
Mark Harper | 439 c35 (Link to this contribution) Ministers announced that the Lyons report would be published at the end of 2006. In view of that, ha...
Robert Syms | 439 c111-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had a good debate, featuring many ex-Ministers and many future Ministers, as well as Members...
Rob Marris | 439 c109-11 (Link to this contribution) And if I were to stray too far into what the Lyons inquiry ought to do, Madam Deputy Speaker, you wo...
Speaker | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is very lengthy for an intervention.
Alan Whitehead | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend was making an interesting point about the possibility of revenue neutrality of revalu...
Rob Marris | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) I am aware of that, because of the intervention made earlier by my hon. Friend the Minister. I do ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c114 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is describing a most extraordinary position. In effect, he is saying that he is r...
Robert Syms | 439 c114 (Link to this contribution) Labour Members doubtless fought very hard in their constituencies during the election, but our posit...
David S Borrow | 439 c114 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify the position of the Conservative party? Is it in favour of a 2007 re...
Robert Syms | 439 c113-4 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised. Council tax is an important issue because a lot of people feel that the basis of it...
Rob Marris | 439 c113 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman as surprised as I am that paragraph 10 of the explanatory note says that"““T...
Phil Woolas | 439 c115-6 (Link to this contribution) The Conservatives should listen to the argument. They get very excited about revaluation. It brought...
David S Borrow | 439 c116 (Link to this contribution) Did my hon. Friend see the photographs in the newspapers over the last few days of a fairly modest b...
Phil Woolas | 439 c116 (Link to this contribution) Here we have an expert to confirm my point of view.
Phil Woolas | 439 c115 (Link to this contribution) What a letting of the cat out of the bag we have witnessed this evening! With all due respect to H...
Robert Syms | 439 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) I am always hopeful when I go into the Division Lobby, but heads would doubtless roll—probably not m...
Phil Woolas | 439 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who is an acknowledged expert in valuation, makes a valid point, which brings me on ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c117 (Link to this contribution) The Minister would do well to listen carefully to what Members say. My point was not about numbers, ...
Phil Woolas | 439 c117 (Link to this contribution) Well, it was in the financial pages. On 6 November, not 24 hours ago, it was stated that rising wage...
Speaker | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is a very lengthy intervention, and I am not sure whether it is appropriate.
Peter Soulsby | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem with council tax is the imbalance between the funding t...
Kali Mountford | 439 c104 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has said that we need a system that provides stability, which is a point that I mad...
Speaker | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members are once again trespassing wide of the mark. We are narrowly considering revalua...
Kali Mountford | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The stakeholders are council tax payers, who need to know why they are payi...
Celia Barlow | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one of most important aspects of revaluation, should it come, will ...
Kali Mountford | 439 c105 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to use some ingenuity, Madam Deputy Speaker, to ensure that it is appropriate. Earlier,...
Kali Mountford | 439 c106 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. If and when we reach the point where revaluation is necessary, people should be given fu...
Lindsay Hoyle | 439 c106 (Link to this contribution) Revaluation happens across the board, especially where there is a shire district, a district, a pari...
Kali Mountford | 439 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. The point that I was inadequately trying to make is that there ar...
Phil Woolas | 439 c107 (Link to this contribution) I commend my hon. Friend for his research. He referred in passing to the decision in 1955. We know f...
Rob Marris | 439 c106-7 (Link to this contribution) Revaluation is a classic example of something that lasts longer than one expects. That often applies...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c107 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that, on the occasions that he mentioned, the trajectory of the index of ...
Rob Marris | 439 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am shocked that any Government would play around with revaluation for party political purposes. Ho...
David S Borrow | 439 c108 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that some lessons can be learned from the success of the revaluations of b...
Rob Marris | 439 c107 (Link to this contribution) I agree. My hon. Friend anticipates one of the points that was at the top of my list. We are in the ...
Lindsay Hoyle | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) : My hon. Friend has rightly identified the issue, which is the fear factor among the public. One of...
Rob Marris | 439 c108-9 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree that we can learn from what has happened with business rates, and the House needs ...
David S Borrow | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has mentioned the Conservative party’s amendment and the fact that it calls for a can...
Rob Marris | 439 c109 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do. Such fear is often a fear of the unknown. It is sometimes whipped up by the Oppositi...
Phil Woolas | 439 c120 (Link to this contribution) As the statement of 20 September and as my right hon. Friend has made clear, our policy is to ensure...
Speaker | 439 c120 (Link to this contribution) Order. There has been a mistake in the timing on the clock. Doorkeepers, please unlock the doors.
David S Borrow | 439 c120 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been generous in giving way. May I try to help him on this point yet again? Many ...
Phil Woolas | 439 c120 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend made that point in the debate. Of course, the answer depends on what happens to house...
Speaker | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) Order. Far too many extraneous conversations are going on in the Chamber.
Nick Raynsford | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, but can he tell the House when he and the Government envisage that ...
Phil Woolas | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an important point. The investment in the Valuation Office Agency—the com...
Phil Woolas | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) The £200 extra help with the council tax was opposed by the Opposition. Pensioners in receipt of the...
Phil Woolas | 439 c117 (Link to this contribution) I did listen to the hon. Gentleman closely, and that is why I referred to the article in The Mail ...
Speaker | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman may like to enter that debate but he will not be allowed to do so while we...
Phil Woolas | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your firm chairing of this important debate. I emphasise the ...
Phil Woolas | 439 c118 (Link to this contribution) If I had the time I should like to enter into a debate on the workings of council tax benefit, as it...
Phil Woolas | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.
David Curry | 439 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) We are all familiar with the fact that the House may agree or disagree with a Minister’s proposition...
Phil Woolas | 439 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) It may be helpful if I remind the House of the words of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Communi...
David Curry | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Phil Woolas | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) In just one second.[Hon. Members:““Give way.””] Members might have let me finish my sentence, but I ...
David Curry | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr. Raynsford) did not ask the Minister whether he...
Phil Woolas | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman made a learned speech earlier and I think—
Phil Woolas | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must listen and be patient. As the right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon will ...
Speaker | 439 c119 (Link to this contribution) Order. Once again, I appeal to the House to come to order. Some Members have been here listening to ...
Charles Walker | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that all the other houses in that road would have gone up in value too, gi...
Kali Mountford | 439 c103-4 (Link to this contribution) I am dreadfully sorry. I was not aware that I was in ““Just a Minute””. I was about to address the p...
Speaker | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) Order. The two hon. Members may wish to discuss that outside the Chamber. Right now, I want hon. Mem...
Kali Mountford | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) Were we to do as my hon. Friend suggests, I am sure half the House would be in Westminster Hall with...
Lindsay Hoyle | 439 c104 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been very generous with her time. Buildings do not move, and people will always p...
Speaker | 439 c104 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are now going very wide of the Bill before the House.
Lindsay Hoyle | 439 c104 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. She mentioned alternatives. One alternative is an income tax to ...
Kali Mountford | 439 c104 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the problem. Opposition Members have not missed that point. There is a flaw in the...
Kali Mountford | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but I would be careful that the basket was not so full of promise that it became overly com...
Tom Levitt | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) : Just before the previous intervention, I could sense that Madam Deputy Speaker may have wanted t...
Tom Levitt | 439 c98 (Link to this contribution) I feel an Adjournment debate coming on—for another occasion—on the subject of strategic partnerships...
Kali Mountford | 439 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to make sure that my question is in order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Would not it be useful t...
Tom Levitt | 439 c98 (Link to this contribution) I could not have put it better myself. In my area, where the majority of properties are in band D or...
Mark Hendrick | 439 c98 (Link to this contribution) : Perhaps I can help my hon. Friend in bringing us back to discussion of revaluation. One of the Opp...
Speaker | 439 c98 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are not debating the Lyons review. We are debating the Bill, so I hope that the hon. Membe...
Andrew Gwynne | 439 c98 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that my hon. Friend made that important point. Does he acknowledge that the precept sys...
Kali Mountford | 439 c99 (Link to this contribution) When I first heard the proposal to delay the revaluation of council tax, I admit I felt some dismay....
Tom Levitt | 439 c98-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall follow your advice, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and cross out much of what I have left to say. I wa...
Speaker | 439 c97 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the hon. Member for High Peak (Tom Levitt) gives way, I want to steer him much closer ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c97 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Structure and funding are so intertwined that it is imposs...
David S Borrow | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my worry that a long delay before a council tax revaluation will exaggerat...
Kali Mountford | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) It certainly does, but my hon. Friend must be careful because he might steer me into something of a ...
Andrew Gwynne | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) : Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the inequities of the current council tax system is the fact...
Kali Mountford | 439 c100-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, but this just shows that no legislatio...
Kali Mountford | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) I take your strictures, Madam Deputy Speaker. That unpleasant trip down memory lane did not do me mu...
Kali Mountford | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his point well and I share his concern. That is why I have difficulties with th...
Kali Mountford | 439 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend suggests an interesting and innovative idea that has not yet been tried by our countr...
Speaker | 439 c100 (Link to this contribution) Order. I sincerely hope that the hon. Lady is not going down the route of Europe and federalisation....
Celia Barlow | 439 c99 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend consider something that the Opposition have perhaps suggested: regional revalua...
David S Borrow | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that there is no truly perfect form of tax? The art of local government is...
Kali Mountford | 439 c103 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Mr. Borrow).
Kali Mountford | 439 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) May I just acknowledge the inventiveness and compassion of my hon. Friend’s proposal? I hope that Mi...
Speaker | 439 c102 (Link to this contribution) Order. I would not want the hon. Lady to be tempted down that route, interesting though it may be.
Tom Levitt | 439 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talked in the early part of her speech with typical compassion for those on fixed inc...
Kali Mountford | 439 c102 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Take-up does not just need to be given prominence on council tax demands; t...
Julie Morgan | 439 c102 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that there might be a case for support for council tax payment as an autom...
Kali Mountford | 439 c102 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting proposal—
Mark Hendrick | 439 c91 (Link to this contribution) Before this year’s general election, did not the leader of the hon. Gentleman’s party say that, if t...
David Jones | 439 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly the case so far as England is concerned, but of course, my party’s amendment is fo...
Mark Hendrick | 439 c92 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that what this Government have done with the council tax in Wales is si...
David Jones | 439 c92 (Link to this contribution) What I would say is that the fact that the people of Colwyn bay are not manning the barricades is a ...
John Bercow | 439 c92 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not agree that neither revaluation nor the proposed Lyons inquiry does anything ...
David Jones | 439 c92 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and the longer that this debate continues, the more inclined I am to agree. The fact is...
Peter Soulsby | 439 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) I had the privilege of leading Leicester city council for some 17 years. It has been said that that ...
Mark Pritchard | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions his support for deferment. Does that support extend to supporting Govern...
Peter Soulsby | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) As I understand the proposals in the White Paper, the Government envisage a new role for local educa...
Adam Afriyie | 439 c94 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that in the Local Government Act 2003, the Government were clear about their commitme...
Peter Soulsby | 439 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) I would give the same reason that Ministers have already given—that we have a unique opportunity to ...
Peter Soulsby | 439 c94 (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly take your advice, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and stick to the matter in hand—except to ac...
Mark Hendrick | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) In achieving that aim, would it be sensible to review the role of the uniform business rate and its ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members have got the history wrong, as I recall that it was the Conservative party, fro...
Tom Levitt | 439 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, rise to support the Bill and I hope that it will not spend too long in Committee. As a two-c...
Mark Pritchard | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman mentioned pre-emption. I suggest that he should not pre-empt the Lyons inquiry ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) Well, we must wait and see what the Lyons inquiry says. In the highly unlikely situation that it dec...
Phil Woolas | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an intelligent and considered speech. Does he agree that the effect of the ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c97 (Link to this contribution) I do not like having to try to explain, let alone defend, Opposition policies, and I am sure that th...
Phil Woolas | 439 c97 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will accept my assurance that if pensioners are unable to pay their tax, ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c97 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. When he winds up, I may raise with him the is...
David S Borrow | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that when reputable bodies have recommended that a local income tax would ...
Tom Levitt | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) The issue has been looked at many times over the years. Ever since the rating system was introduced,...
Celia Barlow | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) : Does my hon. Friend agree that keeping a link between local providers and local income is an essen...
Speaker | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have heard quite enough to realise that we are now moving into a debate on the future of lo...
Paul Beresford | 439 c48 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that, although the council tax is based, for collection purposes...
David Miliband | 439 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman spend more time reading the Bill than the Sunday papers, bec...
David Miliband | 439 c34 (Link to this contribution) Tempting as it is to be the tutee of the hon. Gentleman, council tax bills is precisely not what the...
Speaker | 439 c101 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Lady that we are discussing a Bill about revaluation?
Brooks Newmark | 439 c86 (Link to this contribution) You make an interesting suggestion, but my main concern—
Tom Levitt | 439 c84 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may not know that I represent a Derbyshire seat. For 18 years, under a Conservati...
Stephen Crabb | 439 c90 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors pointed out that h...
Speaker | 439 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not go too far down that road in his reply. We are debati...
Tom Levitt | 439 c96 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to that point. It is true that we need such a link and I would not favour a situation in...
David Howarth | 439 c80-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead). I agreed wit...
Brooks Newmark | 439 c86 (Link to this contribution) I accept your reprimand, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point on capital...
Tom Levitt | 439 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) I am interested by what the hon. Gentleman says. He will be aware that pensioners can count the cost...
Tom Levitt | 439 c90 (Link to this contribution) Why does the hon. Gentleman think that the number of people whose property valuation went up or down...
Peter Soulsby | 439 c93 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That was precisely the point that I was making. I welcome the Minist...
Lord Pickles | 439 c42-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point. There was a limited way in which we could draft a reaso...
Lord Pickles | 439 c42 (Link to this contribution) I have always regarded myself as silver tongued. If I can persuade the hon. Gentleman to join me in ...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c78 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but if he examines those subsections carefully, he will...
Alan Whitehead | 439 c78-80 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady knows, the business rate revaluation has been based on its being followed by dampen...
John Hemming | 439 c82 (Link to this contribution) As an ex-leader of Cambridge city council, my hon. Friend will be aware that the political cost of t...
Speaker | 439 c70 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I clarify matters? A passing reference to Wales is acceptable. What cannot take place is ...
Lord Pickles | 439 c45 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will have to improve his interventions before he tempts me to give way.
Subjects
Council tax benefits
Devolved matters
Council tax
Delegated legislation
Households
Increases
Local government
Pensioners
Local government finance
Property
Prices
Valuation
Taxation
Tax rates and bands
Timetables
Take-up
Valuation Office Agency
Legislation
Council Tax (New Valuation Lists for England) Bill 2005-06
Link
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