UK Parliament / Open data

Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 11 July 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Paul Goggins. The answering member was Dominic Grieve.

Racial and Religious Hatred Bill. Report stage and Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (301 to 229). Passed.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

436 c597-671

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Racial and Religious Hatred Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 11-EN also published (vote)
Thursday, 9 June 2005
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Dominic Grieve | 436 c610 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. In Committee, I quoted from the Koran, the Old Testament, the New Testa...

Lord Bannside | 436 c610 (Link to this contribution) On Second Reading, I asked the Home Secretary a question concerning statements in the Bible and in t...

Show all contributions (201)

Dominic Grieve | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. I do not think that I needed to quote that—it had been quoted extensively b...

Lord Cormack | 436 c610 (Link to this contribution) I was unavoidably detained elsewhere during the early stages of the Bill. Did my hon. Friend quote f...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c610 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very good point. If the Minister were to come to the Dispat...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c610 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has identified perhaps the greatest problem with the Bill, namely that hatred is not ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) Ultimately, someone must make a judgement, and on the basis of new clause 2, the people making the j...

Baroness Featherstone | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) While I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman is trying to do with this new clause, does not he agree t...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point. I shall leave it to the Minister to answer that conundrum.

Gwyneth Dunwoody | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) I understand that Voltaire, on his death bed, was asked to renounce the devil and all his works, and...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c609 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, but I have always thought that those were more of a publisher’s g...

Chris Bryant | 436 c609 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might be right so far as section 20 of the Public Order Act is concerned, but eac...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c609 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but I still believe that a protection that states, as the Public Or...

Evan Harris | 436 c609 (Link to this contribution) Until the hon. Gentleman uttered those last few words, he was being far too kind to the hon. Member ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c609-10 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. That is why we must be so careful with this legislation. New clause 2 a...

Paul Goggins | 436 c608 (Link to this contribution) I have a further reason to intervene on the hon. Gentleman: I have never suggested that. In fact, I ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c608 (Link to this contribution) I had rather hoped that I was keeping it in perspective. The Minister’s suggestion that there would ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c608 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The implication that a person is likely to carry out an act of violence does not flow logica...

Chris Bryant | 436 c609 (Link to this contribution) The bit that the hon. Gentleman has left out of all his discourse so far is that each of the section...

Evan Harris | 436 c607 (Link to this contribution) In the hon. Gentleman’s introductory remarks, he spoke of the difficulty of distinguishing between r...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c607 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. There are in the world today—and, indeed, in this country—gro...

John Bercow | 436 c606 (Link to this contribution) Go on.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c606-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall do so briefly and shortly. In the meantime, new clause 2 does not remove the limb that requ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c607 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could ask the hon. Gentleman to calm down a little. He knows that in the nearly 20 years t...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c607-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that intervention, but I believe that there is a clear distinction...

John Bercow | 436 c606 (Link to this contribution) I was not privileged to serve on the Committee.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c606 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that. Indeed, if my hon. Friend wants to develop the argument, he can examine the other...

John Bercow | 436 c606 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that my hon. Friend is trying to improve rather than retard the Bill. However, I put it ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c606 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. However, it is worth bearing in mind the fact that new clause 2 ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c605 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is right. In Committee, we spent much time considering intent. If h...

Philip Davies | 436 c605 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, if the Government reject new clause 2, it would make their promise t...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. There is the hint of a new orthodoxy in the air, which provides that people...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c602 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 436 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 4—Protection for criticism, ri...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c605 (Link to this contribution) I have sympathy with my hon. Friend’s aim, but he asked what the problem with the new clause was. It...

Paul Goggins | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend will speak for herself about that. On the more serious point, I empha...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) After Committee and after pondering that issue, I began to wonder whether, if the provision goes on ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government are worrying about something very substantial indeed: th...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) In fairness to the hon. Lady, she may not have described me as barmy, but rather my suggestion about...

Paul Goggins | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, I join the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) in his praise for the draftsmen, not l...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) rose—

Dominic Grieve | 436 c599-600 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his comments. I am happy to accept new clause 3 in substitution for amendme...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c600-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief because the main points have been made by the Minister and by the hon. Member for B...

Lord Bannside | 436 c599 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister telling the House that there could be a period when the person would not be arrested...

Paul Goggins | 436 c599 (Link to this contribution) There could be a period during which the police, even if they know that something is happening, wish...

Gary Streeter | 436 c599 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for listening to the views of the Committee about the power of arrest....

Paul Goggins | 436 c599 (Link to this contribution) I said in Committee that I saw my responsibilities for the Bill not simply in getting it through Par...

Speaker | 436 c597 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 10, in page 2, line 23 [Schedule], at end i...

Paul Goggins | 436 c597 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Tobias Ellwood | 436 c597-8 (Link to this contribution) In a situation in which an arrest must take place, how are individuals supposed to make such judgmen...

Paul Goggins | 436 c597 (Link to this contribution) It seems but a short time since we had what could be fairly described as a vigorous debate about the...

Sadiq Khan | 436 c598 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that publicising the fact that there will be no power to make a citizen’s ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c598 (Link to this contribution) The whole point of the new clause is that individuals will not have to make such a decision because ...

David Heath | 436 c598 (Link to this contribution) Once the amendment is agreed to, as I hope it will be, surely the situation will be exactly the same...

Paul Goggins | 436 c598 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. The new clause will give the reassurance that he suggests. He ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c598 (Link to this contribution) A report will be made not to the Equal Opportunities Commission, but to the police, who will carry o...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c643 (Link to this contribution) In selecting the list for debate here and in Committee, I tried to identify groups that might be reg...

Charles Hendry | 436 c643 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying those issues and for explaining more of the thinking ...

Charles Hendry | 436 c642-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a brief contribution on a particular aspect of amendment No. 9. In doing so, I commend ...

Tony Wright | 436 c647 (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s argument is that some amendments are too weak and some are too strong, yet he accepts...

Paul Goggins | 436 c646-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made that point before. The simple point that I am making is that new clause ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c646 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation, although I am sorry that he cannot accept the ame...

Paul Goggins | 436 c645-6 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been powerful and wide ranging, not least the contribution of the hon. Member for Eas...

Sammy Wilson | 436 c644-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says no, but the terminology is exactly the same. He was worried about the aspect...

Chris Bryant | 436 c644 (Link to this contribution) No.

Sammy Wilson | 436 c644 (Link to this contribution) The hour is late, so I will be brief. As a new Member, I think that I am beginning to learn some of...

Baroness Featherstone | 436 c667 (Link to this contribution) It is a great irony that the Bill will penalise those whom it seeks to protect. I have never been wo...

Gary Streeter | 436 c666 (Link to this contribution) We all agree on one thing here tonight, and that is that the Minister is a well-intentioned person. ...

Chris Bryant | 436 c666 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) said on the last day in Committee something that rang ...

Lord Cormack | 436 c665 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) feels, as I do, that, perhaps not for ...

Tony Wright | 436 c664 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson) spoke powerfully about th...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c663 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I listened with great interest to the last debate. The flaw in the discussions in ...

Frank Dobson | 436 c662-3 (Link to this contribution) I was startled by the suggestion from the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael) that ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c656-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I wish to thank hon. Members on both sides...

Stephen Pound | 436 c657 (Link to this contribution) Not Voltaire.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c652 (Link to this contribution) I regret that the Minister did not succumb a little to the temptation that new clause 2 offered. He ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c651-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not able to give way. I must allow time for the hon. Member for Beaconsfield to respond. As I ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c657-8 (Link to this contribution) No, not Voltaire and not Mill, but the Leader of the Opposition, who, in the House this afternoon, i...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c658-9 (Link to this contribution) I join the Minister wholeheartedly in thanking all those who have participated in the consideration ...

Ann Cryer | 436 c659-61 (Link to this contribution) I have just voted in the Aye Lobby, so I feel that I owe it to my colleagues and the Minister to exp...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c661 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Keighley (Mrs. Cryer). I commend her on what I though...

Paul Goggins | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) My response is that this legislation is as important today as it was two weeks ago and a month ago. ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c648-9 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. There are two reasons why I cannot accept the Lester amendment. The ...

Speaker | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) Order. We must not have sedentary interventions. If Members want to intervene on the Minister, they ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is disgraceful, as the hon. Gentleman says from a sedentary position. Lord Le...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) Disgraceful.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c649 (Link to this contribution) I did not follow the Minister’s logic when he suggested that the Lord Lester amendment would not giv...

Paul Goggins | 436 c649-51 (Link to this contribution) It is true that, in law, they are protected by the racial hatred legislation, because the religious ...

Evan Harris | 436 c649 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister therefore accept that if the British National party uses the word ““Muslims”” inst...

Paul Goggins | 436 c649 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that because I do not accept that there is a direct read-across between race and fai...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c647 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell the House when we, Members of the elected Chamber, will see the guidance? Why...

Paul Goggins | 436 c647 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether a third way exists, but I have said throughout these debates that I continue t...

Paul Goggins | 436 c647 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that guidance is not ordinarily made available until legislation has be...

Gary Streeter | 436 c647-8 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister recognise how unsatisfactory it is for him to come to the House and say that he wi...

Paul Goggins | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) Were that all that I was saying, I would agree with the hon. Gentleman. I am saying that the concern...

Emily Thornberry | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Paul Goggins | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) I have a tendency to give way whenever I am asked. I remind Members that I have three other points t...

Emily Thornberry | 436 c648 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that in the light of the terrible events last Thursday, the need for this ...

Gordon Prentice | 436 c622 (Link to this contribution) Since 2001, it has been possible for offences to be religiously aggravated. What discussion was ther...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c622 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I think that I get the hon. Gentleman’s drift. He has to have regard ...

Speaker | 436 c622 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is exceeding the bounds of an intervention. May I say to the House that in...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c621 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman has read my mind and realised why I was so keen on that rather truncated ...

Peter Soulsby | 436 c621-2 (Link to this contribution) The point made in Committee that still applies now is that it is not just a question of giving prote...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c620-1 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is talking about people who are being attacked on a theological or doctrinal b...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c621 (Link to this contribution) I have to say that if I were to confine my remarks to those phrases, it would mark the end of the Bi...

Chris Bryant | 436 c620 (Link to this contribution) There is a point that the hon. Gentleman does not seem to understand. However attractive Labour Memb...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c619 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but why should stirring up racial hatred by itself be an unlawful o...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) It is not unusual for us to hear two conflicting views from the hon. Gentleman, and there is only th...

Chris Bryant | 436 c623 (Link to this contribution) I have to choose between two Liberal Democrats, so I may get completely conflicting views.

Simon Hughes | 436 c623 (Link to this contribution) Sikhs.

Chris Bryant | 436 c623 (Link to this contribution) Sorry; I mean Sikhs and Jews. They are allowed protection under the law, but many other groups are n...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c622 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman can read Hansard for himself if he wants to know the answer to that direct questi...

Chris Bryant | 436 c623;436 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) It was a delight to hear earlier from the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) that he has achi...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c623 (Link to this contribution) I suppose that I have to admit that I tabled that amendment in Committee slightly tongue in cheek. W...

Chris Bryant | 436 c623 (Link to this contribution) I have to say that I do not think that that is controversial at all. Men and women are equal. They s...

Evan Harris | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) Leaving homophobia aside, the hon. Gentleman says that he is happy that we should hate religious big...

Evan Harris | 436 c624 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has, I think, misunderstood the law. The Bill says that incitement to racial hatr...

Chris Bryant | 436 c624 (Link to this contribution) Consequently, Jews and Sikhs are protected under the law, not by virtue of their religion, but by vi...

Evan Harris | 436 c624 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmi...

Chris Bryant | 436 c624 (Link to this contribution) Well, we have achieved something here today—the Liberal Democrats agree with one another. To be fair...

Philip Davies | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman fails to say why political belief should not fall into that category. Tony Benn...

Chris Bryant | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) That is rather the point that I was trying to make. I do not think that we need to stray down that r...

Evan Harris | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) I have raised this point when other Members were speaking, and it was first made by the hon. Member ...

Chris Bryant | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) Well, I do not think that that example entirely falls within the ambit of the Bill, and it should no...

Chris Bryant | 436 c626 (Link to this contribution) I am hesitant to start talking about good people and bad people. I remember when Jesus was described...

Tony Wright | 436 c626 (Link to this contribution) I was troubled by the last intervention and I wish to pin my hon. Friend down on the issue if I can,...

Chris Bryant | 436 c626 (Link to this contribution) Far be it from me to stop my hon. Friend doing anything. It seem to me that it is wrong to go out on...

John Grogan | 436 c626 (Link to this contribution) Would not the example that my hon. Friend gives be covered by new schedule 1? In our manifesto, whic...

Chris Bryant | 436 c626 (Link to this contribution) We have had that conversation in Committee and this evening. I tabled amendment No. 11 for a specif...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c627 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing that a high test is necessary, but does he agree that being hated, on ...

Chris Bryant | 436 c627 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is right in one sense, in that if there were to be a law preventin...

Lord Cormack | 436 c627 (Link to this contribution) : Would the hon. Gentleman’s amendment extend to the classroom or the lecture theatre, so that teach...

Chris Bryant | 436 c625 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that it is possible to differentiate between the belief and the believer. It is also pos...

Baroness Featherstone | 436 c625-6 (Link to this contribution) : The distinction between the belief and the believer depends on the person making the distinction. ...

Chris Bryant | 436 c627-8 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the point that I was about to make. As far as I am aware, there has been no instan...

David Winnick | 436 c627 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend referred to ““The Merchant of Venice””. I believe that the play is anti-Semitic, alth...

Chris Bryant | 436 c627 (Link to this contribution) I am about to come on to some complex aspects of the Bill’s wording. So far, I have deliberately loo...

Gary Streeter | 436 c631 (Link to this contribution) I am so pleased that the Minister replied as he did, because it seems to be absolute and utter evide...

Paul Goggins | 436 c631 (Link to this contribution) I will intervene if only to apologise to the hon. Gentleman for having to leave the Chamber for a sh...

Gary Streeter | 436 c629-31 (Link to this contribution) It occurs to me that the longer we go on discussing this group of amendments, the less clear it is e...

Chris Bryant | 436 c629 (Link to this contribution) It is because the change to the likely limb in each of the other clauses will have a different effec...

David Heath | 436 c629 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman will carry on because he is doing an extremely good job of demolishin...

Chris Bryant | 436 c628 (Link to this contribution) I was just about to stop, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.

David Heath | 436 c628 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Paul Goggins | 436 c631 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman leaps a few steps further, because he will also know from the discussions that we...

Gary Streeter | 436 c631-2 (Link to this contribution) Exactly my point. We are legislating blindfold. We are trotting through a minefield—perhaps gallopin...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c631 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised to hear that the Minister cannot answer that question because a Department—the Minist...

David Winnick | 436 c633 (Link to this contribution) To a large extent, the hon. Gentleman is putting forward arguments that were made almost word for wo...

David Winnick | 436 c632 (Link to this contribution) I have one or two concerns that are more or less expressed in new clause 4, but if I had any doubts ...

Mark Pritchard | 436 c633 (Link to this contribution) Religion is of course a matter of choice, rather than a matter of birth. Will the hon. Gentleman giv...

David Winnick | 436 c633 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is genuinely concerned about fascism in whatever guise it takes—the National F...

David Winnick | 436 c633-4 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me. Why are the Government introducing the ...

David Winnick | 436 c634-5 (Link to this contribution) Ministers have disputed that and I hope that the hon. Gentleman’s assertion is not the case. However...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c634 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Gentleman’s sentiments, but the current wording of the Bill implies that ““Life of ...

David Winnick | 436 c634 (Link to this contribution) No doubt my hon. Friend is right. However, it is essential that the criticism of religion does not b...

Chris Bryant | 436 c634 (Link to this contribution) Has Rowan Atkinson really made any decent points on this? If his reading of the legislation were cor...

Chris Bryant | 436 c641 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman name a single play that has fallen foul of the 1986 Act in that way?

Evan Harris | 436 c640-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with any of the points that the hon. Gentleman makes and I do not understand—[Interru...

Chris Bryant | 436 c640 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that the danger is that people will suddenly become theologians and start engaging ...

Evan Harris | 436 c635-40 (Link to this contribution) I support new schedule 1 and amendment No. 1, the paving amendment, which we have indicated that we ...

Evan Harris | 436 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) That is not the point. Hon. Members on both sides accept that we live in a climate where people with...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) Is not the truth that we are beginning to see a consensus building up that what is objectionable is ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. It is a difficult dividing line. In fairness to the Government, as I un...

Tony Wright | 436 c611 (Link to this contribution) Is not a further complication that we happily allow people to hate each other, and in any case, how ...

Peter Soulsby | 436 c613-4 (Link to this contribution) At the heart of the hon. Gentleman’s argument is the assertion that a person’s religious belief is, ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c614 (Link to this contribution) Some would argue—and I think surveys demonstrate it—that many people’s political views are inherited...

Evan Harris | 436 c612-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made a key point about Jews and Sikhs. A number of legal experts tell me that the...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c613 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Gentleman says is relevant to the new schedule, which seeks to deal with circumstances...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c614 (Link to this contribution) Look who’s talking.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c614 (Link to this contribution) Of course, some may be apostates when it comes to the political views of their forefathers. Neverthe...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c618 (Link to this contribution) I should say that unless the Minister was minded to accept our amendments and new schedule, it would...

Tony Wright | 436 c618 (Link to this contribution) Yes, feelings will be generated on all sides that will be unhelpful to the Government’s objective. ...

Philip Davies | 436 c617-8 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his sensible new clause. Does he agree that the biggest danger ...

Tony Wright | 436 c617 (Link to this contribution) That is true and of course, according to a further powerful argument that has been deployed in this ...

David Heath | 436 c617 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that there is common ground in all parts of the House ...

Tony Wright | 436 c616-7 (Link to this contribution) I thought that it might be hazardous to cite that example, and in fact, the situation is even more c...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c619 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is spelling out what he thinks is at the core of the Bill, but will he address th...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c619 (Link to this contribution) There is no single answer to that question. There are certainly clear areas where it is in public po...

Kelvin Hopkins | 436 c618 (Link to this contribution) Is not the simple distinction that one can change one’s beliefs but not one’s race?

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c618-9 (Link to this contribution) That is it. For that very reason, hatred on the basis of race is a completely irrational thing; one ...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c615 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is arguing strongly for new schedule 1, and I agree with him. One answer might be to ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c614-5 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that we are dealing with religious hatred. We should bear in mind, however, that 200 ye...

Tony Wright | 436 c615 (Link to this contribution) There were some rather elevated exchanges earlier on about Voltaire, which lifted the tone of the de...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c615 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend has repeated an important point to which I hope that the Government...

Peter Soulsby | 436 c614 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not think that a religious outlook needs be immutable, but I believe it to be fundame...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c616 (Link to this contribution) In citing the words of Mill, the hon. Gentleman in fact told us how that balance should be struck. T...

Tony Wright | 436 c616 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and as we all know this is the important distinction. We are at one on the issues of incitement...

Lord Cormack | 436 c616 (Link to this contribution) Is it not also equally important that people have the opportunity robustly to express their beliefs?...

Tony Wright | 436 c616 (Link to this contribution) Indeed it is, and I take that to be part of the same point. So there is a balancing act that we wan...

Paul Goggins | 436 c601 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may wish to explain that himself.

Paul Goggins | 436 c647 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but I need to cover three other points and to leave good time...

Alistair Carmichael | 436 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point of view, and if we were starting with a blank sheet of paper I would be...

Chris Bryant | 436 c624 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman thinks that I say two different things because he does not listen as clea...

Gary Streeter | 436 c631 (Link to this contribution) So is Satanism a religion or not? It is no good the Minister giving me the empty theory. I ask him a...

Philip Davies | 436 c632-3 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that although one can stop people saying things that one does not lik...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c612 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend has got it absolutely right. The problem then, which is one of the ...

Dominic Grieve | 436 c615-6 (Link to this contribution) Of course, that precise example is currently covered by other sections of the Public Order Act 1986,...

Chris Bryant | 436 c608 (Link to this contribution) Or enmity.

Dominic Grieve | 436 c603-5 (Link to this contribution) We return to one of the general issues that we considered extensively in Committee and which, I hope...

Viscount Hailsham | 436 c657 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister looked at the definition of hatred so as to include only conduct that is likely to ...

Paul Goggins | 436 c657 (Link to this contribution) I have looked carefully at ““hatred””, and I am sorry that the right hon. and learned Gentleman miss...

Subjects

Arrests

Incitement

Exemptions

Freedom of expression

Protection

Powers

Publications

Racially aggravated offences

Muslims

Religion

Religious practice