UK Parliament / Open data

Data Protection and Digital Information Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 27 March 2024, in the House of Lords, led by Viscount Camrose. The answering members were Lord Bassam of Brighton and Baroness Jones of Whitchurch.
Lords committee stage third day. Clause 14, as amended, agreed to. Schedule 3 agreed to. Clauses 15 to 24 agreed to. Schedule 4 agreed to. Clause 25, as amended, agreed to.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
837 cc191-250GC 
Session
2023-24
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Data Protection and Digital Information Bill 2022-23 to 2023-24. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 6 December 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2024-0416
Thursday, 11 April 2024
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c191GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Clement-Jones

53: Clause 14, page 27, line 21, leave out “is, or”

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc191-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, once more into the trenches we go before Easter. In moving Amendment 53, I will also sp...


Show all contributions (95)
Baroness Kidron | 837 cc192-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 57 in my name, Amendment 59 in the name of the noble Baroness...

Baroness Harding of Winscombe | 837 cc195-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as is so often the case on these issues, it is daunting to follow the noble Baroness as...

Lord Kamall | 837 c196GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak in favour of the clause stand part notice in my name and that of the noble Lord...

Lord Harlech | 837 c196GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord missed the start of the debate.

Lord Kamall | 837 c196GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise and thank the noble Lord for his collegiate approach.

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 cc196-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. We have had a major common...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c198GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Knight, my noble friend Lord Holmes and the ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc198-9GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to my noble friend. I cannot be having a senior moment already—we have only just star...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c199GC (Link to this contribution)

I am processing what the Minister has just said. He said it complements the AI regulation framewo...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c199GC (Link to this contribution)

I reject the characterisation of Clause 14 or any part of the Bill as loosening the safeguards. I...

Baroness Harding of Winscombe | 837 c199GC (Link to this contribution)

I may be tired or just not very smart, but I am not really sure that I understand how being less ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c199GC (Link to this contribution)

Certainly. Being prescriptive and applying one-size-fits-all measures for all processes covered b...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c199GC (Link to this contribution)

This seems like a very good moment to ask whether, if the variation is based on outcome and neces...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree about the outcome of higher safety for children. We will come to debate whethe...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the Minister knew I was going to stand up to say that, if it is not part of the regulat...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. That may well be the case, but how that regulatory instruction is expressed can be done i...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

I am having a senior moment as well. Where are the outcomes written? What are we measuring this a...

Lord Harlech | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think we should try to let the Minister make a little progress and see whether some o...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c200GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I just do not accept that intervention. This is one of the most important clauses...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc200-1GC (Link to this contribution)

Let me make the broad point that there is no single list of outcomes for the whole Bill but, as w...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc201-2GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for breaking the Minister’s flow, especially as he had moved on a little, but I have ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c202GC (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely recognise the seriousness and importance of the points made by the noble Baroness. O...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c202GC (Link to this contribution)

Has the Minister moved on from our Amendments 58 and 59? He was talking about varying safeguards....

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc202-3GC (Link to this contribution)

It is entirely my fault; when I sit down and stand up again, I lose my place.

We would alwa...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc203-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I feel less reassured after this debate than I did even at the end of our two groups on...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c204GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

61: Clause 14, page 28, line 17, leave out “using sensitive...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c204GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

63: Clause 14, page 28, line 19, leave out “sensitive perso...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc204-5GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Clement-Jones

74: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause—

...
Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc205-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Central Digital and Data Office, or CDDO, and the Centre for Data Ethics and Innova...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc207-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 144 in my name, which is supported by the noble Baronesses, Lady H...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 837 cc209-210GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise with the advantage over the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, in that I will speak...

Lord Kamall | 837 cc210-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise for not being here on Monday, when I wanted to speak about automated decisi...

Baroness Harding of Winscombe | 837 cc212-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I associate myself with the comments that my noble friend Lord Kamall just made. I have...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 cc213-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has, as ever, ably introduced his Amendments 74, 75...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc214-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I feel under amazing pressure to get the names right, especially given the number of hours we spe...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c215GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can comment on this; he can write if he needs to. Is he s...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c215GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to write to the noble Lord, but I do not believe that the existence of an ATRS-ge...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand that, but if he rewinds the reel he will find that he was talking about the citizen’...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

As I said, I will write. I do not believe that follows axiomatically from the ATRS’s existence.

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

I have a question on this. If the Minister is arguing that this should be by way of amendment of ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the AADC already has statutory standing.

Baroness Kidron | 837 c216GC (Link to this contribution)

On that point, I think that the Minister said—forgive me if I am misquoting him —risk, rules and ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c217GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I entirely agree with that, but I add that we need it upstream and downstream.

For the...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c217GC (Link to this contribution)

Can we agree that there will be some discussions with the ICO between now and Report? If those ta...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c217GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am happy to commit to that. As I said, we look forward to talking with the noble Baroness ...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 837 c217GC (Link to this contribution)

Some 50,000 organisations access that information, but does the Government have any data on it? I...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc217-8GC (Link to this contribution)

We have some numbers that I will come to, but I am very happy to share deeper analysis of that wi...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc218-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. There are a number of different elements to this...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c219GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Kidron

79: Clause 15, page 30, line 37, at end insert—

“(ba) ...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc219-222GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to a number of amendments in this group—Amendments 79, 83, 85, 86, 96, 97,...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc222-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to almost all the amendments in this group, other than those proposed by t...

Baroness Harding of Winscombe | 837 cc225-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak in support Amendments 79, 83, 85, 86, 93, 96, 97, 105 and 107, to which...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 cc226-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this very wide-ranging debate. Our amen...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc228-9GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Kidron and Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones,...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c229GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Viscount is very interestingly unpacking a risk-based approach to data protection under...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c229GC (Link to this contribution)

That is a very interesting question, but I am not sure that there is a read-across between the AI...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c229GC (Link to this contribution)

I did not interrupt before because I thought that the Minister would say more about the differenc...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c229GC (Link to this contribution)

I will briefly address it now. Based on that letter, the Government’s view is to avoid prescripti...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c230GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can see that there is a difference of opinion, but it is unusual for a regulator to g...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc230-1GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether it is usual or unusual for the regulator to engage in this way, but the Bil...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c231GC (Link to this contribution)

Nevertheless, does the Minister accept that quite a lot of countries have now begun the process o...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c231GC (Link to this contribution)

No, I do not accept that at all. I would suggest that we are saying to businesses, “You must prov...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c231GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentioned the freedom to choose the best solution. Would it be possible for someone ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc231-2GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes—if the person they were supposed to communicate with did not speak English or was not availab...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c232GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not really explained the reason for the switch from the DPO to the new system. I...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c232GC (Link to this contribution)

The data protection officer—I speak as a recovering data protection officer—is tasked with certai...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c233GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister accept that the SRI will have to cope with having at least a glimmering of an u...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc233-4GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, the SRI will absolutely have to understand all the organisation’s obligations under this Act...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c234GC (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has reached his 20 minutes. We nudged him at 15 minutes.

Lord Harlech | 837 c234GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, just for clarification, because a number of questions were raised, if the Committee fee...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c234GC (Link to this contribution)

I would like to hear from the Minister.

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 c234GC (Link to this contribution)

As long as that applies to us on occasion as well.

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc234-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for going over. I will try to be as quick as possible.

I turn now to the amendm...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc235-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that no noble Lord expects me to pull all that together. However, I will mention...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc236-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, just in passing, I will say that I am beginning to feel that the decision made by the P...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c237GC (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, explained, his intention to oppose the question that Claus...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc237-8GC (Link to this contribution)

This is a mercifully short group on this occasion. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, fo...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc238-9GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his response, but he has left us tantalised about the outcome of his mee...

Baroness Kidron | 837 c239GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Kidron

103: Clause 20, page 41, line 34, at end insert—

“(e) ...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc239-242GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am somewhat disappointed to be talking to these amendments in the dying hours of our ...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 cc242-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, given the hour, I will be brief. That was an absolute tour de force by the noble Barone...

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 837 cc243-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, will be relatively brief. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, for her amen...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc244-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, for tabling these amendments. I absolutely recognise the...

Baroness Kidron | 837 cc245-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for the...

Viscount Camrose | 837 c246GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Camrose

110: Clause 25, page 44, line 18, leave out subsection (3) ...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc246-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, UK law enforcement authorities processing personal data for law enforcement purposes cu...

Lord Clement-Jones | 837 c248GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, very briefly, I thank the Minister for unpacking his amendments with some care, and for...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 837 c248GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too can be brief, having heard the Minister’s response. I thought he half-shot the Cl...

Viscount Camrose | 837 cc249-250GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for his amendment and his response, and I thank the n...

Baroness Garden of Frognal | 837 c250GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn. Happy Easter, everyone.

Notes
Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland legislative consent sought
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