UK Parliament / Open data

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lords committee stage third day. Clause 1, as amended, agreed to. New clause agreed to. Clause 2, as amended, agreed to. Clause 3 agreed to. Clause 4, as amended, agreed to. Clause 5 agreed to. (Part 2 of 2).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
828 cc424-498 
Session
2022-23
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill 2022-23. Brought from the Commons.
Thursday, 19 January 2023
Bills
House of Lords
Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill
Thursday, 2 March 2023
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2023-0218
Wednesday, 8 March 2023
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Judge | 828 c424 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Judge

32: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, leave out subsection (2) and insert...

Lord Judge | 828 cc424-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I feel like Henry V before the siege of Harfleur. Looking around, I see:

“greyhou...


Show all contributions (145)
Lord Lisvane | 828 cc425-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 141A in my name, which has cross-party support, for which I a...

Lord Beith | 828 cc427-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as well as producing a helpful amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, produced a help...

Lord Beith | 828 cc428-9 (Link to this contribution)

Was it Tuesday? The dates of this Bill are becoming a blur in my mind.

The noble Lord, Lord...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 828 cc429-430 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 44. I am grateful for the explicit support of the noble Lo...

Lord Whitty | 828 cc430-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have two amendments in this group, of which Amendment 62A is the key one. It covers m...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 828 cc432-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have put my name to two amendments in this group: Amendment 32 tabled by the noble an...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 cc434-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I follow the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, which was incredibly helpful and r...

Lord Fox | 828 cc435-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 42, 43 and 50 and the Clause 1 stand part debate, to which I...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 828 c437 (Link to this contribution)

Neither does the noble Lord, Lord Beith!

Lord Fox | 828 cc437-8 (Link to this contribution)

I beg my noble friend’s pardon. Perhaps there is a reason why the departments might favour a slow...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 cc438-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am absolutely amazed that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, has such faith in the bureaucrats...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 cc439-440 (Link to this contribution)

I am very glad that I gave way to the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton. I hope that the Government will ...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c440 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord’s speech is quite intriguing. I have a question for him, although I do not know wh...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c440 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the point I was going to address under my second heading, “default”. As I read th...

Lord Bach | 828 cc440-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise to the Committee for having not spoken at Second Reading, but I am keen to ...

Lord Deben | 828 cc441-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise not least to celebrate the fact that I agree so strongly with my noble friend Lo...

Lord Wilson of Dinton | 828 c443 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the former Permanent Secretary to the noble Lord, Lord Deben, I would like to tell y...

Lord Hacking | 828 cc443-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great delight to follow the noble Lord, Lord Wilson of Dinton, with whom I have...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 828 c444 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 32 in the name of my noble and learned friend Lord Judge, and Amend...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 828 cc444-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have not signed any amendments in this group—I was not asked, and I was not quick eno...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc446-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased that everybody who has spoken in this debate is pulling in the same direct...

Lord Hacking | 828 c447 (Link to this contribution)

I interject to make a point that perhaps I did not get over clearly enough earlier. In moving Ame...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c447 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with the noble Lord.

Baroness Crawley | 828 c447 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, very briefly, I support this group of important amendments. In particular, I support Am...

Baroness Crawley | 828 c447 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is heckling me from a sedentary position.

Lord Callanan | 828 c449 (Link to this contribution)

We discussed consumer protections in an earlier group. The noble Baroness may have made the same ...

Baroness Crawley | 828 c449 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not heard what points I make; I do not know how he can say I am making the same ...

Viscount Stansgate | 828 c449 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very educational debate. On Monday this week, two groups of sixth-forme...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 cc449-450 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be very brief, because I can see we are testing the Minister’s patience. He perhaps needs...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc450-1 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her suggestion of doing some breathing exercises. I apologise to t...

Lord Krebs | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister provide us with the documentary evidence that this Bill will support growth?

...
Lord Callanan | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

It is a long-established principle that removing and reforming unnecessary and outdated regulatio...

Lord Krebs | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

My question was whether he could bring evidence before the House—not an assertion but evidence.

Lord Callanan | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

Ultimately, this is a political point. The most successful economies in the world are those which...

Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister explain exactly what will be retained and what will not? He said that work was u...

Lord Callanan | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the noble Baroness feels passionately about labour regulations. We had an extensive d...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 828 c452 (Link to this contribution)

I am not quite sure that the Minister has grasped the point of the noble Baroness. She is asking ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c453 (Link to this contribution)

I know that many noble Lords want to make the point that, somehow, major pieces of retained EU la...

Lord Callanan | 828 c453 (Link to this contribution)

Can I explain this point please, and then I will take the intervention from the noble Lord?

Lord Fox | 828 c453 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for my enthusiasm causing a truncation of the Minister’s response. Does he at least u...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c453 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister replies, I add that what the Minister is saying now directly contradicts the ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c454 (Link to this contribution)

I just explained that point in my earlier answer. The noble Baroness can look at Hansard and come...

Lord Deben | 828 c454 (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend accept that that is an argument against democracy? Evidently, because it is ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c454 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the noble Lord is talking nonsense, as he often does, on this regulation.

Lord Callanan | 828 cc454-5 (Link to this contribution)

Let me explain the position. We are downgrading the status, if it needs to be changed through pri...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 cc455-6 (Link to this contribution)

I think I understood from what the Minister said a few moments ago that I will not get an answer ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c456 (Link to this contribution)

For the purposes of clarification, I was merely repeating a similar point to the one made by my n...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c456 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think the Minister referred to my Amendment 43. Can he do that before he sits down?

Lord Callanan | 828 c456 (Link to this contribution)

Can somebody remind me what Amendment 43 is, please? I thought it was in my notes.

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c456 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 43 puts a safety net around measures that may be lost because they were not identified ...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc456-7 (Link to this contribution)

I think I referred to that in an earlier part of my speech. I addressed Amendments 42 and 43, but...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

One issue that I have not understood the Minister to have dealt with is the issue raised by the n...

Lord Callanan | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I think the noble Lord, Lord Deben, and I had a political difference on that point. He seems to t...

Lord Callanan | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I think I have already taken two interventions from the noble Lord, Lord Fox, but I will take one...

Lord Fox | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister; I appreciate it. I thought he dealt with the democracy issue, to some exten...

Lord Callanan | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think I ever used the word “inconvenient”, but reforming all this by primary legislation...

Lord Callanan | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I have given the Government’s response to these amendments and, if noble Lords will forgive me, I...

Lord Callanan | 828 c457 (Link to this contribution)

I will take the intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Beith.

Lord True | 828 cc457-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if it would help the Committee, I understand that this is an extremely controversial Bi...

Lord Beith | 828 c458 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not make lengthy or frequent interventions, but I welcome the Leader of the House ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c458 (Link to this contribution)

I listened to my noble friend Lord Benyon’s earlier statements and they are entirely in accordanc...

Lord Hacking | 828 c458 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have one question before the Minister sits down. He said twice that Clause 1 is the b...

Lord Callanan | 828 c458 (Link to this contribution)

Let us wait to see what happens, but the Government are committed to the Bill. As I said, it had ...

Lord Lucas | 828 c459 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sad that the Government have chosen not to address the points made by this Committ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c459 (Link to this contribution)

With that one final intervention, let me say to my noble friend that he knows I greatly respect h...

Lord Judge | 828 cc459-460 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if anybody else wants to make an intervention?

Well, tempers have got slightly fra...

Lord Butler of Brockwell | 828 c460 (Link to this contribution)

Before my noble friend sits down, does he agree that those parts of the law that will lapse under...

Lord Judge | 828 c460 (Link to this contribution)

Undoubtedly that is right, and that is why Amendment 32 specifically deals with that issue in par...

Lord Callanan | 828 c460 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

41: Clause 1, page 2, line 4, leave out subsection (6)

M...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc460-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

45: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—

“Ex...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c461 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

51: Clause 2, page 2, line 9, leave out “Mini...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc461-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 51, I shall speak also to Amendments 53 and 56. I look forward to h...

Baroness Humphreys | 828 cc462-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 54 in my name, Amendments 51 and 53 in the name of the noble...

Baroness Lawlor | 828 cc464-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to follow my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering and the noble Barones...

Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 828 c466 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support my noble friend in her amendment. I take the view, as the Committee well know...

Lord Whitty | 828 c466 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have Amendment 56A in this group. Noble Lords have probably gathered by now that I pr...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 828 c467 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise because neither the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, nor the noble Baroness, L...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c467 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment led by and spoken to by my noble friend Lady Humphreys. I also ...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c468 (Link to this contribution)

Oh, has he come back? I am not doing too well. I am getting tired; I expect we all are.

Ame...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 828 c469 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, but I am afraid that I ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 cc469-470 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this Committee, as the Minister has constantly been reacting to, we seem to keep goi...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc470-1 (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord, Lord Collins, will forgive me, I do not propose to go back over previous discu...

Baroness Humphreys | 828 c471 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that the noble Lord has been talking about the extension to 2026, but he has not exp...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc471-2 (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Baroness has some patience, I will come on to those amendments shortly.

Turnin...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 828 c472 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is very keen on timetables and dates. As we know, spring is movable. Can we have a f...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc472-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure I want to go on the public record saying that I have great faith in lawyers, given ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c473 (Link to this contribution)

I seek clarification about the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble and...

Lord Callanan | 828 c473 (Link to this contribution)

I thought I had explained this in my earlier statements. I am saying that the power to extend res...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c473 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is a fundamental question. If they have the power to maintain and amend, specifically ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c473 (Link to this contribution)

I do not agree with the noble Lord’s characterisation. If they wish, it is perfectly possible for...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc473-4 (Link to this contribution)

I have to say that that is a little disappointing as a summing-up. I take responsibility for not ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c474 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

52: Clause 2, page 2, line 9, after “section 1,” insert “so fa...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c474 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

59: Clause 3, page 2, line 23, leave out “the...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 cc475-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is obviously a long group of amendments. In moving Amendment 59, I will speak brie...

Baroness Barker | 828 c477 (Link to this contribution)

Your Lordships should know that, if Amendment 59 is agreed, I cannot call Amendments 61 or 67 for...

Lord Whitty | 828 c477 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have three amendments in this group, Amendments 61A, 61B and 61C. I first apologise t...

Baroness Ludford | 828 cc477-480 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to speak to Amendment 62, on which I welcome the support of the noble Lord...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 828 cc480-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have signed Amendment 62 from the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and I take this oppor...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 828 cc482-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate so far. I want to speak to Clause 3 standing pa...

Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 828 cc483-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like briefly to refer to this group of amendments, particularly to the aspects ...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 828 cc484-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of Amendment 76, as the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of ...

Lord Fox | 828 cc485-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to the two amendments in my name. It is late, and I will try to keep this ...

Lord Hacking | 828 c486 (Link to this contribution)

It is quite clear from what the noble Lord said to the Committee that he is in favour of Amendmen...

Lord Fox | 828 c486 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, absolutely. I made the point about Clause 3 missing out on the sunset laws. That is clearly ...

Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway | 828 c487 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, also in the interests of brevity, I will just say that there is real fear and concern t...

Lord Hendy | 828 cc487-8 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a short point about Amendment 61A, tabled by my noble friend Lord Whitty. In the amen...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 cc488-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thought the Bill was bad, but this debate has been quite shocking. I really do not th...

Lord Callanan | 828 c489 (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to stay as long and late as the House requires. I was very happy to stay later th...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 828 c489 (Link to this contribution)

There is no need for these sorts of insults; we have agreed times.

Lord Callanan | 828 c489 (Link to this contribution)

Hang on a second—I made that point because the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, said that I was bein...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc490-1 (Link to this contribution)

Anyway, let us move on to the issues.

Let me first introduce government Amendments 65 and 6...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. Of course, if you are going to use those codification powers, you ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, the work is under way at the moment across all the rights codified in those sections. ...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

I think I must have failed to get across, when I addressed the Committee earlier, that we are not...

Lord Callanan | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

I will talk to the lawyers and attempt to get the noble Lord an answer to his concerns.

The...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the Minister, but that is not the point I was asking about. I am no expert on the ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c492 (Link to this contribution)

Case law is being retained. Case law is not being abolished, it will still exist, and courts will...

Lord Fox | 828 c493 (Link to this contribution)

I think the Minister is departing from Clause 3. This sounds like small beer compared to some of ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c493 (Link to this contribution)

I have some more remarks on Clause 3. Let me come to the end of them and, if the noble Lord does ...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 828 c493 (Link to this contribution)

The Committee heard from a former Lord Chief Justice, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c493 (Link to this contribution)

I acknowledge the noble Lord’s point but I will get him a proper answer from the lawyers.

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c493 (Link to this contribution)

When the Minister gets us that proper answer, I would be grateful if he could explain—I do not un...

Lord Callanan | 828 c494 (Link to this contribution)

I would be happy to include it in the letter. I hesitate to give what I think is a legal definiti...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c494 (Link to this contribution)

Can I just explain Justin’s comments? The Minister has provoked me. Clearly, the shadow Minister ...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc494-5 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think he said that; he said that there has to be an end to EU supremacy in UK law. While...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c495 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but that remark was gratuitous. The point is about legal cer...

Lord Callanan | 828 c495 (Link to this contribution)

That is fair enough; it was a slightly gratuitous point. I actually agree with the noble Baroness...

Lord Fox | 828 c495 (Link to this contribution)

I think I failed to explain why I think that they are relevant. They are relevant because of the ...

Lord Callanan | 828 cc495-6 (Link to this contribution)

I made the point earlier that, when departments are reviewing their legislation and any modificat...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 828 c496 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has made a number of commitments about providing letters and further information to ...

Lord Callanan | 828 c497 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to give an absolute commitment, but I will talk to the lawyers. On the famous lett...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 828 c497 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been an excellent debate. It reflects not least the concerns of the legal prac...

Lord Callanan | 828 c498 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

65: Clause 4, page 3, line 2, leave out “183A and”

Membe...

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