UK Parliament / Open data

Subsidy Control Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 9 February 2022, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage fourth day. Clauses 55 to 92 agreed to, with clauses 78, 79 and 82 agreed to as amended. Schedule 3 agreed to. Bill, as amended, ordered to be printed (HL Bill 113).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
818 cc415-480GC 
Session
2021-22
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Subsidy Control Bill 2021-22. Brought from the Commons.
Tuesday, 14 December 2021
Bills
House of Lords
Subsidy Control Bill. Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee seventeenth report.
Wednesday, 12 January 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Subsidy Control Bill 2021-22. As amended in Committee.
Wednesday, 9 February 2022
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0147
Friday, 18 February 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Show all related items (7)
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0146
Friday, 18 February 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0148
Friday, 18 February 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0174
Thursday, 24 February 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Callanan | 818 cc415-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I trust that it will be acceptable to your Lordships for me to pick up exactly where we...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, I have a question, which may pertain to debates on later groups of...


Show all contributions (116)
Lord Callanan | 818 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

The internal market Act is of course a separate piece of legislation from the Subsidy Control Bil...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c416GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister. I ask because my understanding is that a regulatory provision can be a subs...

Lord Callanan | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

No, my understanding, on advice, is that it does not form a provision under the internal market A...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

Again, before the Minister sits down, I have a couple of questions. I apologise to him for this, ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

I will have to look back at those remarks myself. It is possible that I was misinterpreted at the...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

Let me also read out a second bit that I felt was particularly incomprehensible. If anybody in th...

Lord Callanan | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

I think that speaks for itself. I stand by those words.

Lord Fox | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way. Perhaps that is why we asked him to stop—so that we could st...

Lord Callanan | 818 c417GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes. Subsidy is not a regulated provision within the scope of the UK provisions. We are debating ...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 cc417-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who spoke in the debate and supported my Amendments 55A...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c419GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Blake of Leeds

62: Clause 66, page 38, line 5, at end insert—

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 cc419-420GC (Link to this contribution)

I rise to move to Amendment 62, in the name of my noble friend Lord McNicol. I am also looking fo...

Baroness Boycott | 818 cc420-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register and apologise for being unable to att...

Baroness Sheehan | 818 cc421-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 63 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, to whi...

Lord Whitty | 818 cc422-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 63 but I want to say a couple of things about Amendme...

Lord Wigley | 818 c424GC (Link to this contribution)

Could my noble colleague clarify his thinking with regard to subsidies to the steel industry? Cle...

Lord Whitty | 818 c424GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is probably a question for the Minister rather than for me, but, clearly, the deci...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 cc424-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 62 and 63. Amendment 62 seems pretty basic post-legislative...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 cc425-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, each year, the CMA is required by the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 to prep...

Baroness Boycott | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

Given that the UK has committed to a 50% cut by 2030, a review that takes place only every five y...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

It is the Government’s position that five-yearly reports are sufficiently frequent to take a view...

Lord Whitty | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

The other day, we discussed the inclusion of agriculture in the Bill, but the Government have mad...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

On the specific point about agriculture, I do not know whether the letter addressing those points...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

I hope that that addresses the noble Lord’s concerns.

Baroness Sheehan | 818 c428GC (Link to this contribution)

Can I ask the Minister about her remarks about the OEP’s remit? I think that she said that it wou...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

One of the noble Baroness’s concerns was that there was no overarching principle for the Governme...

Lord Callanan | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

There is also the Climate Change Act.

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

There is also the Climate Change Act, as my noble friend has just reminded me.

Baroness Sheehan | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I shall not repeat what I have said, but I do not think that the OEP will be able to tell us whet...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the noble Baroness’s concerns, but I am not able to go further than I have done at t...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

But can the Minister see our point that the climate emergency has to be part of every part of gov...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c429GC (Link to this contribution)

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I believe that it is part of the ov...

Baroness Boycott | 818 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, given how huge this area is in terms of the amount of public money that gets spent and ...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

I remind the noble Baroness that we have a legal commitment to net zero.

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c430GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her full response to the two amendments before us. In the contributions ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c431GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

64: Clause 68, page 39, line 1, at end insert—...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 cc431-2GC (Link to this contribution)

In moving Amendment 64, I will also speak to Amendment 65. I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord...

Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 818 cc432-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 64, to which I have added my name. I also support Amend...

Lord Wigley | 818 cc433-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Lord and agree with almost all the comments that he ...

Lord German | 818 cc435-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have attached my name to Amendment 65 and want to examine the cash and resources whic...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 818 c437GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to add to that list of questions. Does the Minister have any information on wher...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 cc437-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 68 requires that the CMA establishes a new committee of its board called the sub...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 cc439-440GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister concludes, I listened carefully to her comprehensive reply, for which I thank...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

On the noble Lord’s first point, it has been a year since the Bill was introduced and therefore t...

Lord Fox | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

Can I ask that in future, all impact assessments be given a time lapse, so we know how many weeks...

Lord German | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if, in concluding, the Minister could indicate the deadline for when the 50 extra advert...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

I think the noble Lord might have to declare an interest on that front, but we will let that lie....

Lord Wigley | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down, I have what is meant to be a helpful question. Given that there ma...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c440GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes a very interesting point. It does have operational independence, and I am su...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 cc440-1GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her detailed response. When she, the other Minister or the department re...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c441GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Purvis of Tweed

66: After Clause 69, insert the following new Clause—

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 cc441-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 66 I shall speak also to Amendments 72 and 78. In so doing, I thank...

Lord Wigley | 818 c444GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 72, which I think is linked with this amendment. It refers t...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 cc444-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for tabling these amendments. At Second R...

Lord Fox | 818 cc445-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is an interesting debate. I originally set out, as Committee stages are wont to do...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc446-8GC (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Fox, for their amendments. They seek to prob...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c448GC (Link to this contribution)

I have been following the Minister’s line of argument, but I do not think that it comes to the sa...

Lord Callanan | 818 c448GC (Link to this contribution)

The United Kingdom Internal Market Act applies only to certain regulatory provisions, and a subsi...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c448GC (Link to this contribution)

With respect, we are in Committee on a Bill and we are making law, and simply to say that this is...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc448-9GC (Link to this contribution)

The reason why I made that point clear to the noble Lord—and I understand the point that he is ma...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 cc449-450GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, but I am also grateful to my noble friend Lord Fox, ...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c450GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd

67: Clause 70, page 39, line 33, after “decision” in...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 cc450-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to deal with an amendment in relation to what I would call the broad powers of m...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c452GC (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble and learned Lord make it clear that he envisages, through this mechanism—or route...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c452GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, indeed; that was my third point. The noble Lord has made it most eloquently in one sentence ...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 cc452-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to this amendment, which was so powerfully and eloquently moved. I...

Lord Fox | 818 cc453-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 71 in my name. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, and th...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 818 c454GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, one problem that legislators always face is the inability to look with complete clarity...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 cc454-5GC (Link to this contribution)

We welcome the tabling of these two amendments, which move us on from the composition and core in...

Lord Callanan | 818 c455GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, and my noble friend Lord Lamont for tabling Amen...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c455GC (Link to this contribution)

Is the reason for that not that the EU insisted on it, and that is why the Bill is being brought ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c455GC (Link to this contribution)

This legislation was predicated in the TCA, as my noble friend points out. We are of course meeti...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c455GC (Link to this contribution)

That is because those systems are fundamentally different. The EU state aid system was a pre-auth...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc455-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I said that it was a different regime but was pointing out the number of times that subsidy has b...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c458GC (Link to this contribution)

I have one question for the Minister on the hard economics of recovery of damages. Will there be ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c458GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, of course, they would be able to recover damages if a party had suffered a loss. I do not th...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c458GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who has taken part in this debate. If we are embarking on a new...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c459GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd

69: Clause 70, page 40, line 16, at end insert “, th...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c459GC (Link to this contribution)

I am going to be very brief about this. The point emerged in the earlier remarks of the noble Lor...

Baroness Randerson | 818 c459GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be equally brief. The omission of Ministers of the devolved Governments at this ...

Lord German | 818 cc459-461GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendment 79, which neatly follows the questions of the noble and...

Lord Wigley | 818 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted to support the amendment put forward by the noble and learned Lord, Lord...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 818 c461GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I put my name to Amendment 69 as well, and I support exactly what my noble and learned ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c462GC (Link to this contribution)

I have very little to add; it has been covered comprehensively. I was happy and pleased to add my...

Lord Callanan | 818 c462GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I speak to the detail of these amendments, this is perhaps a good opportunity to...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c462GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that “no progress” update from the Minister. With regard to the current situati...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc462-4GC (Link to this contribution)

The legislation is UK-wide so it will apply in Northern Ireland but, clearly, the absence of the ...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c464GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate; I do not want to lengthen it with a...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c465GC (Link to this contribution)

Tabled by

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

70: Clause 71, page 40, line 37, leave out “o...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 cc465-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 70 in the name of my noble friend Lord McNicol. I am sure that...

Viscount Chandos | 818 c466GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Mc...

Baroness Randerson | 818 cc466-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to speak in support of this modest amendment. As the noble Baroness said, ...

Baroness Altmann | 818 c467GC (Link to this contribution)

I rise briefly to add my support to the concerns expressed by other noble Lords that a one-month ...

Lord Berkeley | 818 c467GC (Link to this contribution)

I intervene briefly to strongly support my noble friend’s amendment and other noble Lords’ commen...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc467-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble lord, Lord McNicol for this amendment, and the noble Baroness, Lady B...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c468GC (Link to this contribution)

If the argument is that we are only giving one month to raise a complaint or to look into this, w...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc468-9GC (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord, Lord McNicol suggested, we explored this point fully last week. There are good...

Lord Fox | 818 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

I am interested in this concept of a chilling effect. What evidence is there for that, and what c...

Lord Callanan | 818 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

I think that is the first time the Liberal Democrats have proposed giving the Government more sec...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for those final comments, which I think are a measure of the contributions w...

Lord Callanan | 818 c470GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

73: Clause 78, page 45, line 15, leave out from second “of” to...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 cc470-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to two amendments that have a relationship I shall endeavour to explain...

Lord German | 818 cc472-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to talk after the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgie...

Lord Wigley | 818 cc473-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was delighted to hear the speech of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, who rais...

Lord Berkeley | 818 cc474-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak briefly to my Amendment 80, which is a probing amendment. It is grouped...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think we have a hard stop in 20 minutes, so I will be very brief. I am grateful to no...

Lord Callanan | 818 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to say that we are now on the final group of amendments. I have made it th...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc475-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I have had some expert advice from the Whips here. I thank the noble Lords for Amendments 73A, 74...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc476-9GC (Link to this contribution)

It’s interesting stuff, this. I suspect that the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is not going to get a...

Lord Callanan | 818 c479GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

76: Clause 79, page 46, line 13, at end insert—

“(7) The...

Lord Callanan | 818 c480GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Callanan

77: Clause 82, page 47, line 35, at end insert—

“(e) pro...

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