My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for moving this amendment. I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Bruce; I agree with his comments. At this point, I should declare my registered interest as a member of the Farmers’ Union of Wales. I am one of the last great landowners of Wales, with six acres of land, so I have a direct interest in the outcome of these debates.
There are at least two dimensions to this issue. The first is whether this sort of legislation is appropriate for application to agriculture in general. Over my lifetime, the question of subsidy in agricultural terms has been related to the security of the supply of food and the price of food. Those are somewhat different considerations to those that may be apposite if we were considering subsidy for the steel industry or other industries. We need a system that is fine-tuned to the agricultural reality, which is different in terms of not only the nature of the product but the scale of the operation; that is particularly true in Wales—and in Scotland as well, I suspect—where there are many small farmers. They are small farmers in terms of their turnover and investment compared with the massive investment one might have in the manufacturing industry.
In Wales, farming is more than just a livelihood, it is a way of life—and a way of life that sustains the community. Therefore, consideration of the impact of subsidy, the relevance of subsidy and when it should and should not be available has many more dimensions to be taken on board than if it were a straight manufacturing subsidy question. My background was in the manufacturing industries, as I have explained before, but I am acutely conscious of the difference that exists between agriculture and the manufacturing industries
6.15 pm
The other question that arises—it has already been touched on by the previous two speakers, with whom I agree—is of how one relates UK legislation to the different set of circumstances and the different legislatures of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. If there is a different structure of decision-taking and legislation,
a different structure of provision of financial support and a different structure in terms of the reality of the land and the type of produce coming from that land, then quite clearly there may be circumstances where a subsidy programme and legislative framework may be absolutely appropriate for England, but not appropriate in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland. I would suggest that it is perhaps not appropriate in parts of England either, such as the Lake District or the south-west, where agriculture is quite different. The question therefore arises as to whether we should have any of this in this legislation. It is something that is valid and needs to be discussed and to have a framework, but it is a very different framework from what exists under this Bill.
It is for that reason that I am delighted to support these amendments and I hope that we will have a substantive answer from the noble Baroness the Minister, who knows the circumstances in Wales well. I hope that she will concede that there are issues here that need to be addressed in the context of Wales or Scotland or other parts of the United Kingdom and that, if this question cannot be resolved at this point, it is certainly one to which we should return in a substantive manner on Report.