UK Parliament / Open data

Subsidy Control Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 7 February 2022, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage third day. Clauses 33 to 54 agreed to. Clause 55 under consideration.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
818 cc329-384GC 
Session
2021-22
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Subsidy Control Bill 2021-22. Brought from the Commons.
Tuesday, 14 December 2021
Bills
House of Lords
Subsidy Control Bill. Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee seventeenth report.
Wednesday, 12 January 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0148
Friday, 18 February 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Watkins of Tavistock | 818 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Members are encouraged to leave some distance between themselves and others and to wear...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Blake of Leeds

38: Clause 33, page 17, line 19, leave out paragraph...


Show all contributions (110)
Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 cc329-330GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 38 stands in the name of my noble friend Lord McNicol. I declare my interest ...

Baroness Humphreys | 818 cc331-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to speak to Amendments 39, 47 and 48 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord McNicol...

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 818 c332GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to offer Green group support for all these amendments, to which we might...

Baroness Altmann | 818 cc332-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support these amendments. I support the aim of a more flexible scheme than the EU has...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c333GC (Link to this contribution)

I just want to add one very brief word. In a number of the amendments today and on Wednesday, we ...

Lord Wigley | 818 c333GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to these amendments very briefly. This has been a bipartisan debate, and ...

Lord Fox | 818 cc333-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was not intending to speak to this set of amendments until I received the Minister’s ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 cc334-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, further to that point, I wish to ask a couple of questions. First, on a factual issue—I...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc335-6GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, for his amendment, which was moved so ably by the ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for giving way. Just on the point about challenge and that if a subsidy is b...

Lord Callanan | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, of course. All subsidies need to meet the principles—this discussion is about what parts of ...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

So, just to be absolutely clear, if a subsidy is awarded that is less than £315,000 as an individ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that, yes, that is the case. If that is not correct I will certainly clarify ...

Baroness Altmann | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to my noble friend, but may I ask for clarification from him as well? He mentioned a ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

Just to clarify the points from the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, yes, it would need to meet the sche...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c336GC (Link to this contribution)

So, if it is under the £315,000—sorry, forget the scheme, I confused things by talking about the ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c337GC (Link to this contribution)

I will come back to the noble Lord in writing. It is a complicated area to clarify the exact lega...

Baroness Altmann | 818 c337GC (Link to this contribution)

Can my noble friend confirm that the Government’s estimate of the cost in relation to the subsidy...

Lord Callanan | 818 c337GC (Link to this contribution)

That returns to the point that I made earlier. The commitment given by Minister Scully in the oth...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c337GC (Link to this contribution)

I have been reviewing the code on the publications from local government; local authorities must ...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc338-9GC (Link to this contribution)

Nothing in this Bill affects the existing duties of local authorities and others to publish any f...

Lord Fox | 818 c339GC (Link to this contribution)

I have a brief question because £14.5 million is a curious number. There is no reason why it shou...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc339-340GC (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. The noble Lord, Lord Fox is clearly not tired of receiving letters from me, so I will hap...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his very full response, as always. The level of detail means that we wil...

Lord Callanan | 818 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

If I may interrupt the noble Baroness, I am trying to save my letter writing to the noble Lord, L...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

It only remains for me to beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

40: Clause 33, page 17, line 24, leave out “on...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c341GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am just waiting for the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, to rejoin us as he has helpfully sig...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 cc341-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a straightforward group of amendments and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, ...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c342GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I added my name to these amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord McNicol. I shal...

Lord Fox | 818 cc342-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, during the debate on the previous group, the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, asked, “How ...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc343-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, and my noble friend Lord Lamont for these amendments, which...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c344GC (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister confirm that, as we discussed in the debate on the previous group, if this schem...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc344-5GC (Link to this contribution)

As I said, none of the provisions in this Bill change any of the requirements on local authoritie...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c345GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister sits down—I ask this as I genuinely do not know—he stated that 76%, or howeve...

Lord Callanan | 818 c345GC (Link to this contribution)

The figure I used was 74%, not 76%. I do not have that information, but I can certainly get it fo...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c345GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Minister was very persuasive about tax measures. I quite follow what he said about ...

Lord Callanan | 818 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that my noble friend is making. As I mentioned in my reply to the noble Lo...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

With regard to companies or interested parties, Clause 76 allows an interested party to make a re...

Lord Callanan | 818 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

If the information is available, perhaps in other formats, my understanding is that they can star...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, but that was not my question. Regardless of the period of challenge after the subs...

Lord Callanan | 818 c347GC (Link to this contribution)

The position in the clause is fairly transparent; they will be able to ask for information on the...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c347GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. As the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, picked up, he ve...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c347GC (Link to this contribution)

I had nearly finished. I reiterate that we are going to have to come to some sort of agreed posit...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 818 c348GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Dodds of Duncairn

51: Clause 48, page 27, line 13, at end insert—

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 818 cc348-350GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tabled this amendment, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, has added her nam...

Baroness Hoey | 818 cc350-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was pleased to add my name to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Dodds...

Lord Empey | 818 cc351-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the issue of state aid goes beyond even the points that have already been made, because...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 cc352-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord. I was thinking that it is not usual for us t...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c353GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and his detailed analysis, espe...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 cc353-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, without endorsing what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said, I think this is a very import...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc354-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, let me first thank the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for t...

Lord Empey | 818 c355GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, said that this is a probing amendmen...

Lord Callanan | 818 c356GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point the noble Lord is making but, to return to the words I used, there must be...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c356GC (Link to this contribution)

I have the text of the Command Paper in front of me. I heard the Minister say that the Government...

Lord Callanan | 818 c356GC (Link to this contribution)

We are seeking to have a single regime—the regime we are discussing now—that applies across the w...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 818 cc356-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for his response to the debate and all noble Lords who h...

Baroness Randerson | 818 c357GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Randerson

52: After Clause 51, insert the following new Clause—

...
Baroness Randerson | 818 cc357-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I decided to table Amendment 52 having read the detailed concerns expressed by the Wels...

Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 818 cc359-361GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very happy to support my noble friend on this amendment, to which I have added my ...

Lord Wigley | 818 cc361-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for moving this amendment. I am de...

Lord Whitty | 818 c362GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I add my voice to the concern about how agriculture is being treated under this Bill. O...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 cc362-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Whitty. I agree with all his comments. ...

Lord Fox | 818 c363GC (Link to this contribution)

My father spent half his working life milking other people’s cows and the other half milking cows...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c363GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to ask the specific question of how, if this Bill includes all agricultural supp...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 cc363-6GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, for tabl...

Lord Wigley | 818 c366GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for her response on the points that I raised, but does she accept t...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c366GC (Link to this contribution)

While I absolutely accept that the agriculture industry is completely different from others that ...

Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 818 c366GC (Link to this contribution)

Less favoured area status was mentioned by my noble friend. In Scotland, 86% of the land has less...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c366GC (Link to this contribution)

I register those concerns. Consultation with the devolved Administrations continues, but I repeat...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c367GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not think the Minister addressed the point regarding the interaction with the UK internal ma...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c367GC (Link to this contribution)

I reassure the noble Lord that the CMA has an advisory function; the tribunal will be the body th...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c367GC (Link to this contribution)

We have to read this debate in the context of the previous debates. As the Minister has previousl...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c367GC (Link to this contribution)

The public authorities can devise their own schemes according to their own policy priorities, as ...

Lord Fox | 818 c367GC (Link to this contribution)

Let me give a specific example. Herefordshire County Council decides, within the seven principles...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c368GC (Link to this contribution)

I think a lot of this overlaps with the internal market Act, which we will debate at length on a ...

Baroness Randerson | 818 cc368-9GC (Link to this contribution)

This has been an interesting debate. The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, will understand my point when I...

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist | 818 c369GC (Link to this contribution)

There are a couple of points I would like to address now, and obviously I will cover the other po...

Baroness Randerson | 818 cc369-370GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. I fear that she makes my point for me in terms of Clause 41. My ar...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c370GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Blake of Leeds

54: Clause 55, page 30, line 40, after “State” inser...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 cc370-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord McNicol, I am grateful to t...

Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 818 cc371-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very pleased to have added my name to this group of important amendments. We are p...

Lord Fox | 818 c372GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, just as the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, suggested, I shall speak to Amendments 55, 57 a...

Lord Wigley | 818 cc372-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I cannot allow this debate to go without intervening very briefly. We have had argument...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc373-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I was expecting more interventions before my reply—I offer my apologies.

These amendments r...

Baroness Randerson | 818 c374GC (Link to this contribution)

If the Secretary of State has acted as Minister for England and a devolved Government want to get...

Lord Callanan | 818 c374GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is approaching this issue in completely the wrong way. First, this is a UK-wid...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c374GC (Link to this contribution)

The case that the Minister makes is a case against what he took through in the internal market Ac...

Lord Callanan | 818 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

The internal market Act, which we debated at great length, reserved the application of a subsidy ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that is relevant, because no one had any doubt about the fact that the internal ma...

Lord Callanan | 818 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

I think the noble Lord is getting confused between the subsidy advice unit and the Competition Ap...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

I am talking about a call-in that is exactly the same as in Section 36 of the internal market Act...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc375-6GC (Link to this contribution)

It is because the responsibilities are different. They might all rest within different parts of t...

Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 818 c376GC (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that those conversations are taking place, but is not the danger that if the devolved A...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc376-7GC (Link to this contribution)

We are not denying the right to request, which is why we are currently in discussions with the de...

Baroness Blake of Leeds | 818 c377GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that it does not fall to me to remind the Minister that the Secretary of State might be...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 c377GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Lamont of Lerwick

55A: Clause 55, page 30, line 40, after “State” inser...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 818 cc378-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendments 57A, 57B and 60A. The purpose of this group of amendme...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 818 c380GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I warmly support the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, in this amendment. Earlier this afternoon...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 818 c381GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is always a genuine pleasure to follow the noble and learned Lord in his analysis of...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c382GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think we will have a hard stop at 7.45 pm, so I will try to be brief. Even then, thou...

Lord Callanan | 818 cc382-4GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords. I know that time is getting on; hopefully I will have a chance to g...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c384GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, rather than rush through, let us finish here. I am sure there are some issues that we w...

Lord Fox | 818 c384GC (Link to this contribution)

I think we are comfortable starting again on Wednesday and giving this proper time.

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 818 c384GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Lamont, has yet to respond as well. It will not take long on Wednesday.

Lord Callanan | 818 c384GC (Link to this contribution)

So shall we finish at this point and start again on Wednesday. Is my noble friend Lord Lamont ava...

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