UK Parliament / Open data

Armed Forces Bill

Proceeding contribution from Baroness Goldie (Conservative) in the House of Lords on Wednesday, 27 October 2021. It occurred during Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Armed Forces Bill.

Once again, I thank noble Lords for a stimulating and interesting debate. I appreciate the contributions, to which I have listened with care.

To set a context for my response to the amendments, I would just observe that I clearly and firmly feel that the Bill, by including the reference to the covenant and imputing to it a statutory effect, is taking us a very significant step forward. I understand the frustration and impatience on the part of some that the pace is not moving more quickly and that the reach of the definition in Clause 8 is not being broadened. However, in that context, I shall try to address the points that have been raised, all of them very worthy; in no way would I wish to dismiss them.

The amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, would widen the scope of the new covenant duty to the areas of employment, pensions, compensation, social care, criminal justice and immigration. In considering how to take forward our commitment to further strengthen the covenant in law, which we have discharged in the Bill, we looked first at what the covenant has already achieved. The considerable number of successful initiatives across many different policy areas that we have seen through the Armed Forces covenant to date shows how the careful use of legislation could provide a firm basis and the flexibility for a much wider range of work to develop.

We bore this model in mind in the development of the new covenant duty to ensure it can provide a secure framework that allows scope for innovation, change and future growth. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, that this is about our service personnel, our veterans and their families. In approaching this, we recognised that delivery of the functions relative to healthcare, education and housing in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would benefit from what I might describe as a more uniform awareness of the covenant and perhaps a more universal application of the principles that underpin it.

This has been difficult to encompass, as I think your Lordships will understand, for obvious reasons. The first thing I want to do is to give thanks to the devolved Administrations. They have been co-operative and helpful. I simply explain to your Lordships that even progressing the statutory import with the three areas of healthcare, education and housing has not been straightforward. It has been complex. Your Lordships will understand why. We have a range of delivery mechanisms across the United Kingdom. We have different responsible elements. We have different responsible Governments. We are trying to increase awareness across the UK and achieve a more universal recognition of the principles of the covenant in delivering services.

The question was asked: why healthcare, education and housing? The new duty is designed initially to focus on these three core functions. That not only reflects those already in statute—where there has to be obligation —but also addresses the most commonly raised issues affecting the day-to-day lives of our Armed Forces community. I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, who asked how we know that. It is a perfectly legitimate question. There has not been a specific consultation on that but, as the noble Lord will be aware, the covenant now embraces the MoD and the Office for Veterans’ Affairs. There are our partnerships and discussions with charitable entities, not least the Royal British Legion. We also discuss regularly with families, federations, local government and devolved Administrations what the needs imposed by the covenant are. I can say to the noble Lord that there has been significant experience of dealing with issues coming through to the covenant team in the MoD and their subsequent discussions with the other parties to which I have referred.

The three entities, healthcare, housing and education, seemed to be the most prominent features in that work. That is why we have focused on them. Importantly, the Bill provides for further consideration of additional areas of concern and it grants the Government powers to make any changes as a consequence. In this way, the covenant duty can effectively adapt to the needs of the Armed Forces community in the future. Future areas of concern will be addressed as and when they arise through the powers in the Bill that allow the Government to widen the scope of the covenant duty, if needed, through secondary legislation. We are working with key stakeholders to establish an open and transparent process by which the scope of the legislation can successfully adapt to address the changing needs of the Armed Forces community.

We have to consider the practicalities of extending the covenant duty to further policy areas. My noble friend Lord Lancaster alluded to this. Indeed, to achieve the extension sought by this amendment would require the amendment to specify which functions would be relevant, in the way that we have defined a relevant health, housing and education function. The list of specified persons and bodies subject to the duty would also need to be amended to include the bodies which exercise the relevant functions envisaged by the amendment. That would require extensive consultation with stakeholders and the devolved Administrations to identify the appropriate bodies and functions to bring into scope.

I suggest that a perhaps wiser and better way forward at the moment lies in first working through and resolving any practical implications arising as the new covenant duty is implemented. That will give us a good indication of where amendments may be required to better meet the changing needs of our Armed Forces community in future.

The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and the noble Viscount, Lord Brookeborough, also raised the important issue of mental health, and were absolutely right to do so. I was asked for some detail. We are committed to enhancing health and well-being for veterans; I highlight the recent launch of Op Courage, which simplifies access to NHS England veteran services. That is among excellent work being done within the serving Armed Forces in relation to mental health, where there is far swifter and better recognition of persons who may need support and a much swifter reference point to direct those individuals to where they can get that support.

I return to the amendment. By retaining the flexible nature of the legislation, the Government hope to establish a firm legal foundation for the covenant while avoiding any unnecessary administrative burden. The new duty builds on the existing widespread commitment to the covenant, thereby contributing to a further strengthening of covenant delivery across the UK. I think that it was the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, who specifically asked about the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and its recommendations. I am seriously considering its report and will undertake to update the Committee on Report.

I have attempted to explain in relation to Amendments 8, 10 and 13 why the Government have a difficulty. I hope that my remarks have been received sympathetically and have not been regarded as obstructive, but I invite the noble Lord and the noble Baroness not to press their amendments.

Amendment 64 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, refers to civilians subject to service discipline; these are civilians who come within the jurisdiction of the service justice system and include groups such as families of service personnel living on bases overseas, Crown servants working with the Armed Forces overseas, or civilians on board military ships or aircraft. I understand that the amendment was actually intended to apply to locally employed staff in Afghanistan but I am required to address the amendment as scripted, although I will come to Afghanistan more specifically.

The Armed Forces covenant was designed with the Armed Forces past and present, and the families who support them, at its heart. That was in recognition of the unique obligations of and sacrifices that they make on behalf of the country in serving us. In practical terms, the covenant is focused on ensuring that the Armed Forces community gets a fair deal when accessing public goods and services in comparison with their civilian counterparts, with the aim of mitigating any disadvantage that they may face as a result of service life, and to allow special provision to be considered for those who have sacrificed the most.

The covenant is therefore directed primarily within the UK, and I do not think that it would be helpful or appropriate to include in its scope locally employed staff working for the United Kingdom Government, whether in Afghanistan or any other country. Those individuals are employed as civilians under their own bespoke terms and conditions of service within their own countries. However, importantly, the Government will take further action where necessary. In Afghanistan, we completed Operation Pitting, the biggest and fastest emergency evacuation in recent history, bringing around 15,000 people to safety in the UK and helping 36 other countries airlift their own nationals.

The whole UK Government are engaged, via Operation Warm Welcome, in ensuring that those Afghan nationals relocated to the UK are provided with the best possible support and start to life in the UK that we can give them. That comes from a variety of sources; it comes from across government departments and may involve the devolved Administrations or come from other public agencies. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that it includes assisting these Afghan nationals into work. I am informed that some ARAP people are now working in the UK as we speak.

We have made it clear that our commitment to Afghanistan and those who supported our mission there continues. Our message to those people to whom we have made a commitment is clear: that commitment to you is enduring. However, the covenant is not the appropriate mechanism to accomplish that support and help.

7 pm

I move to Amendment 65 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, which would require the Government to report to Parliament on the impact of the new duty on the finances of local authorities and health providers. In the design of the covenant duty, the Government consulted extensively with devolved Administrations, local authorities and other local bodies in scope, including local government associations around the UK, to ensure proper consideration of the costs of the duty.

As I said earlier, the covenant duty is designed to raise awareness of the covenant principles and embed them into decision-making and policy-making processes, with the aim of improving the experience of the Armed Forces community at the delivery level. This new duty does not seek to compel or ordain the delivery agencies to do certain things; that would be inept and incompetent. It is about the serious matter of raising awareness, letting these important delivery agencies understand the circumstances of Armed Forces personnel and veterans, and making sure that they take these into account.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that as all local bodies in scope are already funded to deliver the relevant functions in housing, healthcare and education, we assess there to be no significant costs falling to those bodies in scope as a result of these proposals. They would still be responsible for delivering services to this cohort of individuals. We are saying that there is a new dimension through which they should look when they regard people in service or veterans. The key information about the Armed Forces covenant, which public bodies in the relevant policy areas will need to know to assist them to comply with their legal duties, will be set out in the statutory guidance that will be issued in support of the new duty and made freely available through training materials that we are currently working with stakeholders to produce.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble Viscount, Lord Brookeborough, raised the phrase “due regard”, which is in Clause 8 and has an extensive litany of obligations attached to it. “Due regard” means that an obligation falls on policymakers and deliverers of service. I argue that it is a legal obligation; in terms of law, it has an impact. The next question would be: how do you enforce that? I think the remedy would be a judicial review. My view is that a judicial review is never an attractive solution to anybody, for very obvious reasons—not least cost. The whole purpose of the Bill and how it has been phrased by the Government is to try to ensure that nobody gets anywhere near a judicial review. It is to try to ensure that, because of heightened awareness and a proactive approach, policymakers and deliverers right across the UK have before them what the covenant means and why we want to ensure that this unique cohort of people, our Armed Forces personnel and veterans, have that recognition.

The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, used the example of someone with a child with special needs transferring to another area. I would very much hope that the covenant would ensure that the parents of that child, when moving to a new area, would be able to get exactly the support and help they need. Solutions and remedies would be available if either delivery agencies or policymakers were failing in that respect. There are ombudsmen and letters of complaint to chief executives. If I were chief executive of a local authority and someone wrote to me saying, “This is what the law says. This is the situation for me and my family. You have fallen down on the job”, I would jolly well want to do something about it. That is the significance of what is now in the Bill and will become legislation.

I gently suggest to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that the amendment is unnecessary, because we have already completed a new burdens assessment, which reflects the assessment of the financial impact of the new duty. A review will be completed 12 months after the duty comes into force to ensure that the local bodies in scope are not experiencing any undue financial pressures as a result of the covenant duty. I hope that, with that explanation and reassurance, I have encouraged the noble Baroness not to press her amendment.

Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
815 cc181-5GC 
Session
2021-22
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
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