My Lords, I start by quoting the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, who said that the OEP was “adequate”. Remembering that word, I will quote Michael Gove, who said in July 2019, when he was Environment Secretary and the Bill started its oh-so-slow process—procession, we should say—through Parliament:
“The measures in our Environment Bill will position the UK as a world leader, ensuring that after EU Exit environmental ambition and accountability are placed more clearly than ever before at the heart of government.”
Is that a description of “adequate”? I think not.
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Today we have heard about the powers. The noble Lord, Lord Krebs, whom I have huge regard for, said that even as it is written, the Secretary of State’s powers are vague. They are not precise; they can be extended in any way. I particularly agree with and have put my name to Amendment 100 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, because it states beyond doubt that the OEP must be independent.
I certainly agree with the abolition of Clause 24. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, said, this Bill has a contradiction right at the heart of its most important area. You cannot have a government Bill going all the way through Parliament that, at the end, reaches Royal Assent and disagrees with itself. How can you do that? As I understand it, Clause 24 was put in as a government amendment later in the Bill’s proceedings in the other place. I suggest to the Minister, just from that point of view, that we should leave it out.
I am particularly thankful to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, for reminding us that the OEP is not just an English organisation, but also potentially has a vital role in Northern Ireland where these issues are particularly sensitive. I liked the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, referring to buildings being built everywhere. We have a saying in Cornwall, particularly north Cornwall, that the rotation is sheep, maize, barley, bungalows. That is how it used to work when planning permissions did not work quite so well in some of the district authorities we used to have.
I was particularly struck by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson—I am sure he is noble and learned; he shakes his head, but I am sure he is really learned— when he said that guidance is influence. Those who are legally qualified may say I am slightly wrong in saying that this is a quasi-judicial body, if only an intermediate one in that it passes other things to the courts. Surely there needs to be a separation of those responsibilities, just as there is a separation of the Government and the judiciary—or the pre-judiciary in this case.
The core of this Bill to a large degree is that this is not short term. I am sure the Minister will agree. It is to set up an institution that is to last for decades and to build up its reputation, strength and its equivalent of casework. It is responsible to the public directly to make sure that our environment is truly and properly protected for an even longer term.
We might say that the intentions of current Ministers and Secretaries of State are good—I hope we would—but that is not necessarily the case for future Administrations. There is a huge need and a responsibility for Parliament and government to make sure that this body is strong, lasting, and authoritative in the long term, not just for the period of this government. That is why the easy thing is to take Clause 24 out of this Bill. I would prefer the independence to be even more clear, but maybe the earlier part of the Bill does that.
If I may mention just one other thing, although it may not be that popular, environmental protection and the judicial side of that—the replacement for the Commission—is a role that is mentioned in the treaty between the EU and the UK; it has an important role in determining level playing fields and so on in the EU-UK trade and co-operation agreement. So, again, I would think that the Commission, the European Court of Justice or whatever would look at this clause and say, “Come off it, this doesn’t do what we were promised during the negotiations.” As it stands, it is nowhere near having an equal standing.
I have two last points to make. I had the great privilege of being a non-executive director of the Marine Management Organisation for over six years, which is something I really enjoyed. It was a really important organisation that worked hard. It had its budget cut hugely over that period, but its lords and masters at Defra determined that it would be part of the Defra family; that is how it was described. As I have said on the Floor of this House before, Defra is far more jealous of the loyalty of its organisations and executive non-departmental public bodies than any other department that I have come across. To me, that in reality is not just to do with Ministers but with a Civil Service culture, and this body will not survive in the way that it needs to with this clause being there.
I do not know Dame Glenys Stacey that well—I have spoken to her on a couple of occasions—but, whoever the chair of the OEP is in the future, I am sure that if the Government were to intervene, they would find that the chair would resign almost straightaway. That would be a huge embarrassment to the Government of the time. Let us avoid that and make sure that this body is independent, strong and what Michael Gove said it should be: a world beacon for government accountability on the environment.