My Lords, with great consideration, the Minister took a number of interventions on his speech and covered quite a number of points. However, a lot of issues are raised by the Explanatory Memorandum and the Commission note of 6 September 2017, which is the position paper on intellectual property rights, including geographical indications, and which the Treasury made available to me for this debate. I want to press the Minister on a number of points.
The section on the general principles under which intellectual property will be handled in a no-deal scenario, on pages 2, 3 and 4 of the note, all the way through uses “should” rather than “will” in respect of the mutual recognition and enforceability of rights. Perhaps I may go through them because these are all very important points. Under the first general principle, which is intellectual property rights having unitary character within the European Union, the paper states:
“The holder of any intellectual property right having unitary character within the Union and granted before the withdrawal date should, after that date, be recognised as the holder of an enforceable intellectual property right … In the specific case of protected geographical indications, protected designations of origin and other protected terms in relation to agricultural products … this principle should also imply that the United Kingdom puts in place, as of the withdrawal date, the necessary domestic legislation … The implementation of this principle should include, in particular, the automatic recognition of an intellectual property right in the United Kingdom on the basis of the existing intellectual property right having unitary character within the Union”.
Under the second general principle, it states:
“Applications for intellectual property rights having unitary character within the Union … should be entitled to keep the benefit of any priority date in respect of such pending application”,
and that, in respect of applications for supplementary protection certificates for an extension of their duration,
“a person should continue to be entitled to obtain in the United Kingdom a supplementary protection”.
This carries on in respect of a whole number of further rights. The Grand Committee and the House would obviously wish to be assured that those rights will continue, but my understanding is that whether they will crucially depends on what our EU partners do in respect of those rights if we leave with no deal. In respect of all these reciprocal rights and their enforceability, I completely understand that the Government are putting in place the necessary changes to UK law for us to do our part to ensure that rights are enforceable and recognised, but where the EU paper uses “should” in respect of all these rights, can the Minister tell us what is likely to happen after the end of May? What situation does he believe will apply if we leave the European Union without a deal?
I am not an expert like the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, who may indeed be able to give a view on this, but it seems that we have no control over that at all, and that, crucially and solely, that depends upon the action of the European Union itself. These aspirations—which are set out in the Commission paper of 6 September and in the statements the Minister has made to the Committee about there not being an interruption in the recognition and enforceability of these rights—absolutely crucially depend on what the European Union does after the end of March, not just on what we do. Therefore, a vital issue for the Grand Committee and for the House when it discusses these regulations is to know what we expect the European Union to do. If in fact we have no reason to believe that the European Union will continue to play ball in the mutual recognition of these rights and their enforceability, do not all the concerns that my noble friend Lady Kingsmill raised apply in spades? It does not matter whether we agree to all these regulations and do everything that the Government want; all that could be superseded by an inability to have these rights enforced or recognised because the European Union itself will not undertake to do so after the end of March.
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I would therefore be extremely grateful if the Minister responded in respect of each of these general principles and specific cases set out in the Commission paper of 6 September, telling us what he thinks will happen, or—because he may not be able to tell us if it is unknown—what discussions there have been with the European Commission on its likely stance in respect of all these issues if we leave the European Union at the end of May without a deal?
I would like also to make another point which follows on from what the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, said, and his remarks to the Grand Committee last time. There continues to be in respect of these regulations, the other regulations we are considering later this afternoon and all the regulations the House will consider tomorrow, a fundamental issue of legitimacy. We are
being asked, and the Minister is inviting us today, to agree to regulations which will make provisions in respect of there being no deal at the end of March. The question we have a right to ask is: what is the legal and moral basis for that preparation taking place? It is not good enough for the Minister to say that the serving of Article 50 and the passage of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act are sufficient, because it was firmly understood by the House when that notice was served and when the European Union (Withdrawal) Act was under consideration by your Lordships that we would not be going into a no-deal situation.