I thank the Minister for her reply. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, for raising the matter of “professional”. I thought it had gained a certain accord in Committee, but it has obviously not found favour. I am sorry that the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, disagrees with me on things or that she has sought to clarify. The short answer to my amendment is that there will not be only one list; there will be several lists. As the Minister explained, the Ofqual list is much broader. Presumably the institute’s list will be bits of what is on the Ofqual list. It will include some of the things on the Ofqual list which are relevant to higher technical qualifications, but if the Ofqual list is supposed to be a comprehensive list of all available qualifications, it will need to include those which the institute approves—perhaps I have misunderstood that.
I am also interested that it appears that we now have an A-list and a B-list, which I do not think was made particularly clear before. We have an A-list of qualifications which the institute approves, but in order to encompass all the other qualifications—the lower-level ones, for instance—there will be another list of qualifications which somehow will not come under the institute. This is confusing because the institute is now not only the Institute for Apprenticeships but the institute of further education, and further education, by definition, covers lower-level qualifications as well as higher-level qualifications.
5.45 pm
We would welcome a meeting between now and Third Reading because I am finding this debate quite confusing. It has introduced new ideas about two sets of old vocational qualifications, some of which are on the A-list because they are really good qualifications
and will lead to technical and apprenticeship qualifications. We cannot do away with all the other very valuable qualifications at lower levels which are essential for getting people on the first step of the ladder towards progression into higher levels and which perhaps refer to some of the essential services which are lower level but which employers need and which are skills for which people need to have recognition. I would welcome a meeting with the Minister before Third Reading to establish what these various lists of qualifications will cover. We seem to have a duplicate set of lists, which I do not think we were considering before, unless I have misunderstood.