My Lords, I shall speak briefly to Amendments 67C and 68A. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord, Lord Kerslake, as I did not mean to pre-empt Amendment 67C with my earlier question. I support the thrust of what the noble Lord said. The measure seems to look through a stock transfer and treat it as though it were still with the local authority. It is pernicious in the extreme.
I can see why the Government may want to do this. It goes back to the point about the possible ending of stock transfer, because one way of thoroughly undermining these provisions is for there to be a series of stock transfers, with the result that the remaining base of those authorities with housing revenue accounts diminishes. But if that is the fear of the Government, there ought to be another way of dealing with it; otherwise, if these provisions pertain in the Bill, it will be necessary to try, presumably by all sorts of contract means should a stock transfer take place, to pass the levy liability on to the RSL and away from the local authority. Whether that is practical or possible in any way, I do not know, but it seems entirely wrong to have this provision and I hope that the Minister will give a very clear explanation as to why it is here and why the Government consider it necessary.
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So far as Amendment 68A is concerned, my noble friend Lady Hollis covered the territory extensively. The most effective way for people to avoid the bedroom tax is to downsize into a smaller property—or, I think the DWP said, they should take in a lodger. I am not sure that many have done that. But if there is a risk that by encouraging a tenant to downsize to help their personal circumstances and their benefit position the local authority is opening itself up to another high-value property which could add to the levy, you can see the dilemma that councils are faced with. So this needs to be clear in the Bill.
These things are not a matter of individual local authorities. They may impact local authorities differently. These two issues—the stock transfer and protection from the bedroom tax—run throughout the country. That is why I support the amendments.