UK Parliament / Open data

Housing and Planning Bill

Lords committee stage fourth day. Amendments discussed. Clauses 62 to 66 agreed. Part 2 of 2.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
769 cc1247-1280 
Session
2015-16
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Housing and Planning Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 13 January 2016
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0263
Thursday, 10 March 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0330
Monday, 4 April 2016
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1247 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Kennedy of Southwark

57: Clause 62, page 28, line 10, at end insert—

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 cc1247-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment is in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Beecham. It would make a g...


Show all contributions (98)
Baroness Pinnock | 769 cc1248-1250 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 60, to which the noble Lord has just referred and said he wi...

Lord Porter of Spalding | 769 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

I shall respond briefly to the noble Baroness. The point I made was that if I was living in that ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have a lot of sympathy for what the noble Lord, Lord Porter, said, but what we have b...

Lord Porter of Spalding | 769 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

I largely agree with the noble Baroness: it is not right that local authorities are funding ineff...

Baroness Pinnock | 769 c1251 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Porter, has not listened to what I said. Not one word did I say in oppositio...

Lord Horam | 769 cc1251-2 (Link to this contribution)

Can we come back to the amendment for moment? It is on how the housing association spends the mon...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

The problem with that is that you end up with a borough entirely of owner-occupied houses. In oth...

Lord Horam | 769 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

This is what ordinary people who do not have access to social housing have to do. If they have a ...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

That means that everybody is excluded from certain parts of the city; we lose a mix. I do not thi...

Lord Horam | 769 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

It is not quite as brutal as the noble Lord says: there is already quite a mix in London. There i...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 cc1252-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will try to be brief, given the hour. Very grave concern has already been expressed a...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 cc1253-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have some difficulty with all these amendments. I was not going to speak because it e...

Lord Horam | 769 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

In London as a whole, but not in the same borough.

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

I see. If that is the case, and they are not in the same borough, it does not comply with the spi...

Lord Foster of Bath | 769 cc1255-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, a few minutes ago, the noble Lord, Lord Porter, began to introduce a debate about the b...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Foster, has referred to the many attempts over the years to introd...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1256-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, for voicing Lib Dem support and enthusiasm...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Baroness think it is regrettable that if this carries on, we will lose social hous...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have been through the various types of social housing products that are available fo...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness mentioned the figures for starts. Does she have the figures for where those st...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know by borough where those starts are but will, if I can, provide the noble Lord with t...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister emphasised, perfectly sensibly I think, that housing associations should have some d...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, affordable rent for low-cost houses is certainly a lot cheaper than market rents, but I...

Lord Foster of Bath | 769 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful that the Minister has agreed to look at that issue. She will be aware that the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point that I am going to take away and confirm with the noble Baroness. However, I am...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the Minister could help me out on this. Great faith is being placed in housing associatio...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is right: in different parts of the country, there will be entirely different need...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

That is helpful, but in so far as they do not fully cover the position, the residual risk and obl...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

There was a Question yesterday about homelessness. There are a number of government grants, some ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

On the basis of our discussion before the dinner break, we identified that councils were picking ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1259-1260 (Link to this contribution)

I would expect councils to work with the Government, housing associations and through the plannin...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know how the Minister can say that when more than 30% of private rented sector accommoda...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

I just made the point that 84% of tenants are satisfied with their accommodation. I do not know w...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

It is probably 31% rather than 30%. I think it is from the house condition survey.

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for that statistic. One of the points that we made back in the group o...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate. It highlighted the p...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

Talking about looking forward to information, last week, we were promised some statistical inform...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did promise the noble Lord information on starter homes. I will be bringing it forwar...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Beecham | 769 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Beecham

58: Clause 62, page 28, line 13, at end insert—

“(4) Gran...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should confess that this amendment is not well drafted—I blame my noble friend for th...

Lord Shipley | 769 c1262 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, for clarifying the position that explain...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1262 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sympathetic to the intent of my noble friend’s amendment although, like him, I hav...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there will be abuse, and the incentives are very substantial. I have some figures on wh...

Lord Porter of Spalding | 769 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

I will ask two questions. To go back to the same principle, what difference does it make whether ...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

The issue is that the taxpayer has paid a 20% discount for that to happen.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

On top of that, the taxpayer will then go on, in appropriate circumstances, to pay the housing be...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

And on top of that, some people object to the fact that people can sell in London a council flat—...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

If people are moving in, paying the private rent and relying on housing benefit, that is a cost t...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall be brief because the hour is late. I do not want to be here at midnight because...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1264-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to what I think is the amendment of the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lor...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister help me out? She said that the solution to stopping properties being turned into...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was referring to people who bought homes as second properties. In other words, I thin...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that, but I thought the Minister was offering that as a solution to the problem that Ame...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I was in a round-about way, but I do not think that the noble Lord accepts that. In a round-about...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when the Minister has a chance—perhaps over the weekend—to look at the “Dispatches” pro...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly look forward to watching that programme, as the noble Baroness suggests.

Lord Beecham | 769 c1266 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that the Minister overlooks the impact of allowing these properties to be re-le...

Lord Kerslake | 769 cc1266-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendment 59ZA, which proposes a new clause after Clause 63. We n...

Lord Young of Cookham | 769 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

Could the noble Lord explain the theology of the public financing of his proposal? I think he sai...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord’s interpretation is correct. Because there is a third-party asset against the expe...

Lord Stunell | 769 cc1270-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, put to us and commend to th...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 cc1271-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, because it is possible that he has f...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, on his ingeni...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

Well, yes—it might bring it to a rapid end. It does appear to be a very useful way forward. I als...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I can just explain, this is from the National Audit Office report. Part of what the ...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

Am I wrong about the numbers? I thought the noble Lord referred to a figure of 5,000 cited by the...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

The key point I am making is contained in the following sentence, which I will read out again:

Lord Beecham | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

That sounds like a lot, given the record of the last few years. However, when I was first elected...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

I am conscious of the late hour but I will make one last point. I think the NAO report is on to s...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

The cap is imposed. It is not a cap that the authorities choose. That is in the Government’s hand...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

I will have one last go at this. The point I was making is that it is often said that we are now ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, for both his endeavours and his amendment, which...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

Why is it only right that they are sold? They should be used for other families who need social h...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

In your remarks, you said that it is only right that these houses are sold to provide receipts. W...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, part of the receipt is reinvested.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 cc1274-5 (Link to this contribution)

The money is not going to stretch that far. We have already established that it is supposed to pa...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I said earlier, this amendment is about replacing the discount with an equity loan. ...

Lord Stunell | 769 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that the Minister did not get the impression that, if a high-value house becomes...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

I grew up in a large council house in Southwark and my family benefited very much from that. Deny...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I said, we are coming to the detailed mechanism of high-value assets soon and that i...

Lord Foster of Bath | 769 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise as I recognise the lateness of the hour. Will the Minister acknowledge that many Memb...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that point. As far as I am aware, the Government have not made an assessment of the ...

Lord Beecham | 769 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

The amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, seems to represent a way forward. The noble Baron...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the clause is necessary because the Homes and Communities Agency does not have the locu...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister keeps repeating that, but it is just not true. People will not have the right to buy...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the equity loan is not a discount. It is an equity loan. It is an entirely different me...

Lord Kerslake | 769 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very conscious of the hour, so I will keep this very short. I will make three poin...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Kennedy of Southwark

59A: Clause 64, page 28, line 32, at end insert—

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1278 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, looking at the time, I intend to be very brief in moving my amendment, your Lordships w...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc1278-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be equally brief. Amendment 59A, in the name of the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy an...

Lord Foster of Bath | 769 c1279 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise but have an incredibly quick point to make. There is also a clause stand part debate ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c1279 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister. That is very helpful. We put the amendments down because there is concern i...

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