My Lords, the amendment is in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, who cannot be here today. One should perhaps keep one’s mouth shut, because when I said to him, “I think you have a point”, he said, “Will you move my amendment for me, then?”.
The amendment would change the requirement in the clause that the supplier “knows” or is being “reckless” as to whether the recipient would,
“be likely to consume the substance for its psychoactive effects”,
to a requirement that he “should know” that that was the case.
I have seen the letter from the Minister to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. It seems to me that the examples drawn on by the Home Office to defend the recklessness provision are rather different from the situation envisaged by the Bill. Reference is made to two provisions in legislation where retailers are required to consider the age of a purchaser, and I know that the noble Lord is particularly concerned about retail. A third reference is made to the Licensing Act, under which retailers are prohibited from selling alcohol to people over 18 who are drunk—fair enough.
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However, there is a clear distinction between being reckless as to something and whether one ought to know. In my reading of it, “reckless” means heedless of the danger, although I am sure that there is relevant case law. Examples also used in the letter are about the recklessness test covering who a product is being sold to—for example, whether the individual is known for drug taking or substance abuse; the substance’s intended use, which I think is quite difficult; and whether it would be unusual for a particular individual to purchase such a substance. Again, age is referred to. I do not think that it is quite that easy. I wonder whether a retailer would be more or less reckless if I, a usually well-dressed, middle-class woman, went to buy building materials that could be consumed in some way. My reason for doing so would be that I did not want the builder to break off from his work. Would that be different from the builder, in a dirty T-shirt and torn jeans, going to buy the same materials for the same purpose?
I make one important request of the Minister. I know that the Home Office is considering guidelines for retailers and is working with the Association of Convenience Stores and the British Retail Consortium. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. Will those guidelines have been advanced to a stage that will be helpful to Parliament by the time the Bill reaches the Commons so that the debate on the points that the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, is concerned about can be addressed in the context of the draft guidelines? I beg to move.