My Lords, let me come to the aid of the Government. I have really enjoyed the debate and want it to go on longer, but I think we might be getting to the time when we are pushing our luck. I will be relying very heavily on the speech made by Margaret Curran in the other place: a brilliant exposition of the Labour Party position on this issue and on this methodology. I understand the concerns raised about the methodology and I will deal with that later in what I have got to say.
As Margaret Curran said, it is worth remembering that the referendum was decisive in what it decided: to stay within the union. It was also decisive in looking for change. Here I must say that it is easy for people to demonise and insult Gordon Brown, but he is a giant of the international stage, a giant of the Westminster stage and a giant of the Scottish stage, and people who nark away are pygmies in comparison. He came forward almost single-handedly at a time when the future of our country as a member of the United Kingdom was in doubt. It is easy to deride some of his actions, but I am one of those who take the view that, had it not been for the highly significant intervention of Gordon Brown, the outcome of the referendum may not have been so decisive. The call for change is certainly there. That referendum resulted in a degree of consensus on new powers for Scotland, coalescing around the Smith commission.
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As the noble and learned Lord the Minister explained, this order deals specifically with the power promised in Section 25 of the final report; that is a fact of life. I will not dwell so much on the issue of 16 to 18 year-olds
getting the vote—that is another issue, separate from providing the Scottish Parliament with the power to do that. Many in this House and the other place mentioned the significant involvement of 16 to 18 year-olds in the debate and in the voting itself. Liberal Democrat noble Lords mentioned the 75% turnout, I think it was, of 16 to 18 year-olds, and that is absolutely right. Like many other noble Lords in this House, I also go on the outreach visits representing the House of Lords, and I freely confess that I have changed my mind as a result of the experience of going around the schools and as a result of the referendum debate. Previously I was opposed to votes for those under 18, but the level of awareness, activity and involvement showed that my point of view might have been correct a few years ago but it certainly was not correct now, and we are getting the result of that. Unlike the noble Lords, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Stephen, I was not consumed with ambition at the age of 16 to join a political party; I was more interested in joining the local branch of the Celtic Supporters Club, so that I could get on the away bus. I came later in life to politics. But these young people, I think, justify the measure.
Let us come to the point I made about methodology and why we have done this. With regard to people outwith Scotland, it is not a criticism; by definition, it is not their fault. We have to remember the atmosphere in Scotland at the time for those of us who stayed in Scotland and were involved in Scotland. We were not reacting in panic. I have great admiration for many colleagues of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, but there was no sense of panic. There was a sense of realisation that people not only voted to stay within the union, which I am delighted about, but that they were also looking for change, and it is right to respond to that.
The House and, indeed, the public owe a great deal to the noble Lord, Lord Lang of Monkton, for the brilliant consideration of this measure by the Constitution Committee. He was absolutely right to raise these concerns. The reaction of some of the Scottish Nationalist people, and the venom with which they responded and in particular turned against the noble Lord, Lord Lang, were completely out of order. He and his committee were providing a good service; it was right that they did that and that these issues were discussed. However, the thread running through them was, I believe, a feeling that there was a sense of panic in Scotland. The noble Lord often stays in Scotland. As I said, I do not agree that there was an air of panic. There was a feeling that something had to be done to respond to the wishes of the Scottish people, and that they were looking for change as well. I give way to the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth.