Recall of MPs Bill

My Lords, with my Anglican ancestry and upbringing, I like to start with a text. Perhaps I should...

My Lords, how are these amendments and the proposition that has just been put to the House by the...

My Lords, I will speak very briefly and the Minister knows why. This morning I was able to explai...

I begin with an apology to the noble Lord, Lord Tyler—two apologies, to get my mea culpas out of ...

My Lords, in one respect at least I feel a considerable empathy with the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, ...

Is that not covered by proposed new subsection (8) in Amendment 30, which excludes parliamentary ...

If that is the answer, it is, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, knows perfectly well, not ...

My Lords, I hope noble Lords will forgive me if I have misunderstood the comments of the noble Lo...

My Lords, I shall never forget Frank Maguire on that March evening in 1979. He had been brought o...

Within my own party, the Member of Parliament would have to go through a process before he stood ...

Oh yes, I know all about that, because they tried to get rid of me on two or three occasions. I k...

In that precise context, does my noble friend not recall the occasion when Bernadette Devlin cros...

I well remember that: I was sitting just behind when Reginald Maudling made his Statement. It was...

My Lords, I made my view on the Bill plain at Second Reading, and I will try not to repeat anythi...

My noble friend does not exaggerate. At the Conservative Party conference that year there were la...

I have to say that, having spent 27 years in the other place, I never achieved such notoriety in ...

My Lords, I listened to the Second Reading debate but did not participate because it was one of t...

Lord Hoyle.

No. It was made on Second Reading. He said that this puts enormous political pressure on—it polit...

Lord Campbell-Savours.

It was the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. How could I possibly have forgotten his name, when ...

My Lords, I am reluctant to speak in this debate. I did not take part in the Second Reading debat...

He soon got back.

He soon got back: I accept that. My uncle would have been elected. It was he who coined the phras...

My noble friend has talked about an important case, arising from his family history and the histo...

I shall finish by saying that I thoroughly agree with that.

My Lords, I am glad to add my name to my noble friend Lord Tyler’s amendments. It is obvious to u...

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Maxton, and others, I did not take part in the Second Reading...

My Lords, in an hour of debate—

My Lords, I want to say just a word in support of what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said against...

I apologise for leaping to my feet too quickly. I was going to say that in over an hour of debate...

My Lords, yet again we have had a thought-provoking and thorough debate. I acknowledge the work t...

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend the Minister for his careful response to our prob...

I apologise for interrupting. My noble friend says that the amendment does not affect that. The a...

It certainly is not, because it is covered by quite different regulation and control: the code of...

I understand what the noble Lord is saying about the Code of Conduct, but that would not trigger ...

That is exactly what I am saying.

Therefore, Ministers are being treated in a different way from Back-Benchers.

6.30 pm

As the noble Baroness will know from her ministerial experience, they are already under the Minis...

I am not a constitutional lawyer either, but would the noble Lord agree that the House of Commons...

I am not sure that the noble Lord was here during the debate on that Bill, but I was and took an ...

I thought I remembered the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, saying quite distinctly that there ...

He made it absolutely clear, as would other noble Lords who were there, that the way in which the...

Moved by

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

3: Clause 1, page 1, line 13, after “Kingdom” insert...

My Lords, this has been an interesting diversion down the highways and byways of Liberal land. Fo...

Consistency.

Consistency, thank you. That is the second time that my noble friend has assisted me this afterno...

Before my noble friend moves on from the issue of consistency, does he find our constitution char...

That is a very good question. I could spend an hour or two on that, although the Minister and oth...

I raise with my noble friend a practical point that he might be about to address. If a sentence o...

My noble friend has put his finger on it precisely. That shows exactly the problems arising and w...

Does the noble Lord acknowledge the point he has just made is also material to members of the Sta...

Indeed, and the noble Lord will realise it is coming up in subsequent amendments that I have tabl...

While the noble Lord is in explanatory mode, I have something to ask him. I entirely understand t...

I said in my introduction that astute Members of this House would immediately or eventually detec...

What is your view?

My view—I think I said this—is that the recall procedure is daft. It is expensive, complicated, a...

Is not my noble friend, in wrestling with these amendments which attempt to improve the Bill, jus...

I could not have said it better myself; in fact, I did not say it better myself. That was an exce...

My Lords, I very much hope that if I am ever accused of a serious offence, the noble Lord, Lord F...

As the noble Lord, Lord Finkelstein, is saying that we need to be in the real world rather than d...

As the noble Lord is well aware, there have not been very many such Members of Parliament and the...

My noble friend is clearly passionate in support of the Bill. Could he deal with the point, which...

I think that this is a misunderstanding. The leader of the party has to sign to allow them to use...

The fact is that Jimmy Maxton would not have required, and would not have got, Ramsay MacDonald’s...

And he could run as a candidate, if he wished, in an election, and could receive or not receive h...

I am sorry to pursue this—perhaps I have just misunderstood the Bill, as the noble Lord suggests—...

Democratic.

Democratic—that is the word I was searching for; of course it was. In the Conservative Party you ...

No, the noble Lord is not missing anything, but he is failing to add the question of why that wou...

I regard it as a flaw in the Bill because the point that my noble friend has been making througho...

I actually used those examples for a reason. The whip may have been withdrawn, but those people d...

Is my noble friend seriously suggesting that a Member of Parliament is employed by his constituen...

I am absolutely suggesting that.

I intervene very briefly with a very short contribution. It follows what the noble Lord, Lord Fin...

Naturally, I am not against the power of Parliament to do dignified things. I am against allowing...

My Lords, in response to my brief intervention, my noble friend said that he regards MPs—he said,...

For words to fail the noble Lord, this really is a serious crime.

My Lords, first, I will answer one question. This does indeed cover suspended sentences, which is...

Perhaps my noble friend could draw my attention to exactly where.

I need notice of that question—and he is my noble friend! I believe that the Minister will have t...

That is obviously one example, but how about the paedophile in the Philippines or somebody who is...

I was about to come to another example and say that that does not prevent the Standards Committee...

Surely the Standards Committee would not be able to address it, because the first recall conditio...

Undoubtedly there will be cases and jurisdictions where we would be very content to take that, bu...

My Lords, perhaps before I turn to the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, I may speak to...

How is that dealt with under the Representation of the People Act?

If the noble Lord will display a shade of patience, I shall of course deal with that, but I would...

Given that the Bill is meant to be about enabling the electorate to hold to account Members who h...

Certainly, the process is not intended for ridicule. This is about very serious matters of wrongd...

I apologise to my noble friend for pressing him on this. There would indeed be considerable disma...

My Lords, I repeat to my noble friend that that is precisely why I said I would be considering an...

Will my noble friend be kind enough to comment on the brief exchange I had with my noble friend L...

My Lords, I do not think that I am going to get into an exchange with two noble friends except to...

The existing provisions automatically disqualify a Member of Parliament if they have a sentence o...

I may need to look into the provisions of the 1981 Act, because I do not have it in front of me. ...

A thought has just occurred to me that there might be another loophole if someone was sentenced t...

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for a very detailed and helpful reply. The whole debate, ...

I want to make sure there is clarity. I will certainly reflect on what is in Hansard. I do not wa...

I realise that the Minister is constrained not only by messages from the Box but by Ministers in ...