My Lords, I will be very happy to withdraw the amendment and I thank the Minister very much for the clarification. I think there are still
things which in some respects are not as clear as perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Deben, and I would like, and I will quickly go through them. I am grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, in relation to air transport and his general intervention. He talked a lot about the relationships with other organisations, which arise in the group after next, and that also tempted my noble friend Lord O’Neill down the same road. If my noble friend does not mind, I will not respond to that at this point. I am also grateful for the Minister’s indication about how the Government intend to deal with the report of the Delegated Powers Committee, and no doubt we can return to that at Report.
In relation to the designation of “civil” and the requirement on the list of sites, I regret that I failed to notice that there is a reference to a list of sites on page 180. That would be extremely helpful. It would clarify the issue, because I do not expect anybody would expect the AWRE at Aldermaston to appear on a civil nuclear site list but I suspect they might for the Rolls Royce engineering works. I also suspect there will be others where it is not absolutely clear. I am not arguing that they should be within the ONR’s remit, but from first principles, it will not be obvious that it is not. So, while the list will be helpful, some clarity is still needed.
Regarding aircraft, I am still not absolutely clear. Clearly the CAA does have some responsibilities here, as does the international regulatory authority, but the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, seemed to say that internal flights were already covered. Both I and the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, could not see where that is in Clause 59, where it very clearly refers to internal shipping and internal or territorial waters for shipping and to rail and road, but not to air. I am not expecting an answer now, but to me what the noble Baroness was saying did not seem absolutely clear.
On the issue of “associated sites”, clearly my definition is too wide and I would not expect the ONR to be regulating the activity of the distillers that are putting bubbles in our bubbly. I think that operationally there is a need for a definition of associated sites. As the noble Lord, Lord Deben said, it is more product-related, but whether they only regulate that at the point where it arrived on a licensed nuclear site is at the frontier of the ONR’s responsibility.
All I was trying to establish regarding the pre-licensing activity, which I think the noble Lords, Lord Jenkin and Lord Deben, describe—and taking Hinkley Point as an example—was that the HSE and the ONR as was and the new ONR have a responsibility well before there is any nuclear activity on that site. So that is within its area of responsibility. It is not a licensed nuclear site until the activity begins, but it has a major role in preparing for that. Therefore, it should be part of the ONR’s responsibilities. That is all that amendment was attempting to establish.
We have had an interesting and wide-ranging debate—slightly wider ranging than the actual amendment—and I thank the Minister for clarifying some of that. If her officials feel that there is more which needs clarifying,
either in letter or by way of some discussions, I would be very open to that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.