My Lords, I may be to blame for moving off the particular amendment. We are not having a Second Reading debate now: we are dealing with a set of amendments. Amendment 2 seeks to ensure that the Secretary of State will have to publish, within one month of the Act coming into force, a report on whether claimants would have sufficient access to legal advice and support including legal aid. After 1 April, claimants who appeal to the First-tier Tribunal in England and Wales on welfare benefit issues will not, as a matter of course, be able to claim legal aid. This will be the position for all claimants affected by the legislation where they have applied for legal aid after 1 April. I hope that clarifies the position for the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. There will not be entitlement to legal aid after 1 April.
It is important to note that the change in legal aid in no way affects a claimant’s right to ask for reconsideration or appeal to the tribunal. This change in legal aid eligibility will have a limited impact on the claimants affected by sanction provisions in this Bill. Official statistics show that, of the 170,000 claimants sanctioned on ESE or MWA schemes, only around 5,000 appealed to the First-tier Tribunal. Based on these data, we therefore estimate that only between 1,500 and 2,000 claimants in the cases that have been stockpiled—cases, not people—will eventually appeal to the First-tier Tribunal. I also think that due to the nature of these cases it is likely that the vast majority of cases brought before the tribunal will be about a factual dispute where the claimant will need to present their case in plain language and will not require legal support. They will still be able to ask for support from, for example, a citizens advice bureau.
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There is also a provision that in exceptional cases, where it can be shown that a failure to provide legal support would amount to a breach of an individual’s convention rights under the 1998 European Convention on Human Rights, legal support will be provided. Therefore, those who absolutely need it will obtain it. None the less, the amendment is unnecessary because it is likely that these issues will be picked up by the independent review into sanctions, as set out in Clause 2. The Bill specifically sets out that the report will look at the operation of,
“the provisions relating to the imposition of a penalty”.
My understanding of that phrase is that the review will as a matter of course look at how the appeals to the First-tier Tribunal operate and how claimants navigate the tribunals system.
Given that the numbers affected will be small and that we do not feel it necessary to legislate for this group, and that the independent review will look at how the appeal system will operate in relation to these penalties, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.