Yes, I did hear the tail end of my noble friend’s argument where he said that it would all be self-financing, which is always another dangerous thing to say in government.
But, yes, I agree. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, indicated, it has been the ambition of successive Governments to nail down the problem of white collar crime. If they have not done so, it has not been for want of trying. This is obviously a toe-dipping exercise. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, said that we really needed a seminar. I had the benefit of a seminar at an early stage of the process, because Sir Edward Garnier, when he was Solicitor-General, was the first to try to convince me of the usefulness of deferred prosecution agreements. They are, I freely confess, a very pragmatic approach to the problem. It is not as pure an approach as that for which the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, very powerfully argued, but it seems to me to offer real results. As has been pointed by a number of speakers, it is not entirely new to English law in that there are some parallels with environmental legislation and the 2003 legislation to which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, referred.
This is a test to see what kind of results we can get from this approach, with an opportunity perhaps to extend it later. I heard what was said by the noble and learned Lords, Lord Woolf and Lord Goldsmith, and the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Marks, about individuals as well as companies. We decided not to take it that far. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, said that we should look again and I am sure that an appropriate amendment will be tabled for the second part of this Committee stage that allows me to address the Government’s concerns about taking it more widely at that point. At the moment, the Government’s view is that this is a prudent move in
the direction of seeing whether deferred prosecution agreements can work effectively, and if they do, they would then, as the noble Lord, Lord Marks, said, start to find their way into our system more easily. I fully agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, that it would not just be a matter of patching up previous behaviour but of making sure that there was, as part of any agreement, monitored good behaviour for the future.
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These questions are testing the system. Of course, some of the questions asked would be tried out by the system working. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, and the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, asked about the transparency of the system. Public scrutiny of the DPA process is very important to ensure that its operation is transparent and that justice is done and seen to be done. A DPA will be approved in open court and published by the prosecutor. This will make sure that the details of the organisation’s alleged wrongdoings and the sanctions provided for in the agreement will always be in the public domain.
On the creation of DPAs and the role of the Serious Fraud Office, there will always be cases where the public interest requires a prosecution. The Serious Fraud Office remains committed to prosecuting corporate economic crime. The introduction of DPAs will provide prosecutors with an extra tool and allow them to focus more of their resources on those cases where prosecution is the appropriate form. So this is not avoiding going after organisations with prosecution. The Prime Minister has made it clear that if the SFO needs more resources they will be provided. This will be kept under review. David Green CB QC was appointed director of the SFO in April. He has set out a new system and structure further to enhance quality control and a number of key appointments have since been made to take these changes forward.
On the question of organisations and not individuals, the DPAs have been developed to provide prosecutors with an additional tool to overcome some of the current difficulties associated with prosecuting organisations for economic crime. The same challenge does not exist in the prosecution of individuals for economic crime and a range of punishments and sanctions is available to deal with wrongdoing by individuals. I am quite sure from what has been said that on 13 November amendments will be tabled so that we can probe this issue further.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, asked whether DPAs would be open to organisations that do not admit guilt. Yes, the statement of fact may include an admission made by the organisation but this will not be a requirement in every case. On compliance, monitors may be required as a term alongside improvements to the anti-corruption compliance programmes and training of staff. All terms negotiated between parties are to be considered on a case-by-case basis. The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, asked whether the Lord Chancellor will be responsible for this legislation. Yes, he will.
A number of noble Lords made points that invite the thought that we are on to something that goes far wider than this. My noble friend Lord Marks mentioned
environmental legislation and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, mentioned health and safety. That gives some idea of the potential of what we are talking about. I understand the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, that coming to deals like this sometimes sticks in the craw. As I said, the pragmatist in me is attracted by the idea that we could stop the bad behaviour, get proper compensation for it and monitor good behaviour for the future. That would not be a bad win in this hard and cruel world. As I said, when Sir Edward Garnier first raised this with me many months ago, against lots of expensive trench warfare ending in failure it had the attraction of getting some real, positive wins.
On the question of the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, the Explanatory Notes will be provided before 13 November. The dinner break is upon us but I may have missed other questions—I got quite a forensic examination from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith. I will go through my notes and write to the noble and learned Lord, and make that available to the rest of the Committee. That would be a useful document for 13 November.
On the point made by my noble friend Lady Hamwee, I really do not think that this is the slippery slope to plea bargaining and the other dark practices that she fears. The point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, was that if we get the code and safeguards right, we will be on safe ground. Having said that, I am immensely grateful to noble Lords for their contributions. I will study Hansard carefully and try to make sure that the House is well prepared for 13 November. Perhaps I may make one last point. Individual directors of companies will not be immune from prosecution if their company is part of a plea bargain. We will return to this on 13 November. However, if we could go through the process again, I am now asked—