Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill

I agree with the Secretary of State’s comments about Phil Shiner, but I have asked his Department...

They are in the Library. They were published last week and this is in the impact assessment, but ...

I welcome the fact that the Bill has been brought to the House. The introduction of measures and ...

The hon. Member makes a really important point. Under the Bill, there are steps where prosecutors...

The Secretary of State invokes the Attorney General for Northern Ireland, so I will invoke Northe...

The hon. Member points to the statement made in the House, and the Government still stand by that...

Notwithstanding the Secretary of State’s comments, he knows that some people who are very close t...

First, that is what we are doing. I do not agree with the point about torture. I absolutely agree...

I am going to make some progress. I know that there are lots of people down to speak in this deba...

When the Secretary of State’s Department consulted on the Bill in July last year, it suggested th...

First, I took the decision that, if we look back at many examples of case law or challenges, the ...

I think that this is an excellent set of proposals, which the Secretary of State has thought thro...

I thank my right hon. Friend.

I do think we are nearly there on this point, but my right hon. Friend knows that it is important...

I fully agree with my right hon. Friend: torture is not an acceptable part of what any soldier or...

Does the Secretary of State accept that the primary problem is not repeated prosecution, but repe...

First, the Bill deals with two parts of why often people are investigated. One is under civil pro...

I am now going to progress.

The second element of the first part of the Bill ensures that, ...

rose—

If the hon. Gentleman is going to tell us about the Advocate General for Scotland—[ Interruption ...

Of course, the Advocate General for Scotland resigned just last week. I believe it is the case th...

We are not going to publish his opinion or anybody else’s.

We do not publish the opinion of...

I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. He knows that my views on these matters are sincer...

I certainly recognise that people have concerns. Some of those people were doing the job that I a...

I want to pick up on the point made by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Dou...

My hon. Friend makes a substantive point, and one reason we find ourselves facing these challenge...

Surely, the debate of the past five or 10 minutes has exposed the truth of this matter, which is ...

The right hon. Gentleman is a learned Gentleman and a former colleague of mine—

Not learned; I am a former solicitor.

Well, he should be. Only a solicitor would argue the toss between a barrister and a solicitor; fo...

The exclusion of torture from schedule 1 raises the inference for any court that—and this is a ma...

Does the right hon. Gentleman therefore venture that beyond torture there is murder? Should we in...

Obviously not, because murder is dealt with by the common law of this country. The Secretary of S...

Will my right hon. Friend give way on that point?

I will crack on. The House has heard the point from the Liberal Democrat spokesman. I venture tha...

I remind colleagues that many right hon. and hon. Members wish to contribute to the debate, so Ba...

I start by also paying tribute to the role, dedication and work of our armed forces. They face ex...

The right hon. Gentleman must recognise—I am sure he knows this well, having spoken to his opposi...

No, I am very clear that we want to and must protect our British troops against vexatious claims ...

My right hon. Friend was touching on an important point that Members on the Government Benches ha...

I sincerely trust that the Government will rethink and will be prepared to rewrite parts of the B...

On that point, I have seen successive Governments overlook the armed forces, having been one of t...

I will come on to that matter in a moment, because the Bill does nothing for those troops who hav...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

I will give way one more time, then I will make some progress.

On that point, the right hon. Gentleman is right about the armed forces covenant and the ability ...

In his typical way, the hon. Member puts his finger on an important point. He understates his arg...

I agree with many of the points the shadow Secretary of State has made during his very valid cont...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for conceding that I am making some valid points. His point i...

My right hon. Friend is making an extremely constructive and compelling speech, and I hope that a...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for a very succinct and spot-on point, and I look forward to the ...

Will the changes the shadow Secretary of State wants to make overall give more protection to our ...

The changes will give protections that are fit for the future. They will give protections that ar...

What is appalling is the straw man being put up time and again by a Labour party half-funded by t...

Order. Do not shout in the Chamber.

Much of the mess we are having to come and clean up today is because of your illegal wars, your e...

That is not worthy of the office of the Secretary of State for Defence. We are dealing with matte...

This is embarrassing.

You are embarrassing.

Order. When you speak, you speak standing up not sitting down. Now, we will just have a drop in t...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The facts of the Bill are that it places torture and other war c...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No, I will not at this point.

Ministers must think again. No wonder that the former Chief o...

The House will be aware that a great many people would like to speak this afternoon—far more than...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to make a declaration of interests. I am a current member...

I, like others, pay tribute to the armed forces, not least for the work they have done during the...

Is it not part of the problem that, where suspicion exists, there requires to be an investigation...

The right hon. Gentleman is correct, so I do not need to expand on that. I am conscious of your p...

To make a small point of clarification, Field Marshal the Lord Guthrie has rethought his words, h...

I do not believe that anything I read out is what he has withdrawn, however. If I am wrong on tha...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will once I have completed my peroration. Scrap the Bill and let us have a discussion about the...

As ever, the hon. Gentleman makes reasoned points and a good speech. First, he has not mentioned ...

I have not disputed any of those things. I am willing to have that conversation, but the Secretar...

I have a lot of time for the hon. Gentleman and recognise his allegations of how I have ridiculed...

Order. I am not entering into the debate, but I shall merely say that all day today Members on bo...

That is because I know what I am doing, Madam Deputy Speaker, as you well know.

Let me say ...

The Minister for Defence People and Veterans is keen that we look at the Bill itself. Does my hon...

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely correct in saying that. I would go further and say that ...

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to follow my f...

Will the hon. Gentleman accept that this is a distinction not just between the armed forces servi...

I will accept that this is an overseas operations Bill and that being on patrol in Helmand is dif...

I listen with interest to what my hon. Friend says and to his example of unique circumstances. Th...

I agree with my right hon. Friend, and the important point about the Bill is that it recognises t...

I am failing to follow this argument. Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman suggesting that torture i...

No.

That seems to be what he is suggesting. But let us focus on what we are talking about here. We ar...

Order. We do not have time.

That is simply not what I am saying, and it is quite clear that it is not what I am saying. What ...

It is a great pleasure to follow my friend the hon. and gallant Member for Tonbridge and Malling ...

Speaking as a commanding officer who has gone into the field, may I point out to the House that i...

My friend the hon. and gallant Gentleman raises a very important point. The reality is that, desp...

I absolutely accept that this is not a problem confined to us. It is something that has crept int...

I have been in the House for nearly 20 years, and I have always prided myself on being a strong a...

Does the right hon. Member not agree that it diminishes the Government’s standing when they come ...

I think there is, but I also say that people should talk to those in the service justice system, ...

I respect the right hon. Member and sit with him on the Defence Committee. We have mentioned a lo...

I do not disagree with the hon. Gentleman, but I am saying that these are people of higher rank, ...

Will the right hon. Member give way?

Not really, no, because I am about to conclude.

The Bill is not perfect. It can be improved...

I have the greatest respect for the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and I accept wh...

In my constituency, there are many people with mental health issues—indeed, one of my constituent...

I hope so, but I am not sure that it can retrospectively. We all know that a lot of money was mad...

I have no particular love for lawyers, particularly of the grasping variety, with the right honou...

Actually, I do not. What is counter- productive is if people joining the armed forces feel that t...

It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the hon. and gallant Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), w...

I appreciate the hon. Lady’s point about the confusion of post-conflict societies and therefore a...

There are two things: that is not unique to conflict—that happens in many things—and that is also...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No, I am short of time.

Instead, those who have served overseas, potentially risking their ...

It is a great privilege to be called so early in this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker. I might be ne...

I will not have that. The armed forces look to this place to get this right—the hon. Gentleman is...

I am a great fan of the Bill and the Bill is right. We need to put it through.

At its simpl...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the measures in the Bill will reduce the uncertainty and anguish o...

I agree very much. The bottom line is that veterans I have spoken to over the years are worried a...

It does! Read the Bill.

I have read the Bill.

In fact, I cannot think of a more robust institution than the MOD for...

My constituents clearly live in a very different country from the hon. Member for Bracknell (Jame...

I stand here as a veteran. Under current legislation, hypothetically, I could be investigated for...

I hesitate to interrupt my hon. Friend’s compelling and persuasive speech, except to say that she...

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I think the Minister heard it loud and clear....

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton), not only because she mad...

I am very pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman talking about this because it matters so much to man...

I have enormous respect for the hon. Gentleman, and he is right that there is a different legal f...

As I have mentioned in this place before, both my brothers-in-law served in the Ulster Defence Re...

That is an absolutely compelling point, and I am glad that the hon. Gentleman made it. There has ...

We are very clear that we will not leave Northern Ireland veterans behind. The commitment of equa...

The Minister will probably make points like that when he concludes the debate. There has been no ...

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson). As he sai...

rose—

I will not give way, because 70 Members wish to speak, and the hon. Gentleman has had plenty of t...

This is the second piece of legislation that the Government have brought forward this week that i...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

We have 70 people speaking in this debate.

The solution is for the Government to reverse th...

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady may have inadvertently misled the House,...

I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman is saying, but he knows that it is not a point of orde...

I guess I now do not have the time.

If the Government really cared about the wellbeing of v...

The hon. Lady has exceeded her time.

5.27 pm

My constituency has a proud history of supporting our veterans. I would like to start by congratu...

From the point at which I first became aware of its proper formulation, I have been a supporter o...

After the next hon. Member to speak, the time limit will be reduced to three minutes so that we c...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the extra few minutes. I declare an interest as a veteran wh...

I just wondered whether my hon. Friend would like also to praise the Minister’s hair.

Like me with the long beard, the Minister has long hair; we are leading the game in this House.