UK Parliament / Open data

Leaving the European Union

e-petition debate on Monday, 22 January 2018, in the House of Commons, led by Paul Scully. The answering members were Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Suella Braverman.
Motion that this House has considered e-petition 200165 relating to leaving the European Union. Agreed to on question. Sitting adjourned without Question put.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
635 cc1-44WH 
Session
2017-19
Chamber / Committee
Westminster Hall
E-petition 200165 relating to leaving the European Union
Thursday, 18 January 2018
Research briefings
Proceeding contributions
Paul Scully | 635 cc1-2WH (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 200165 relating to leaving the Eur...

Anne Main | 635 c2WH (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes e a very particular point. In St Albans, 190 people signed this e-petition—a...


Show all contributions (126)
Paul Scully | 635 cc2-3WH (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. I intend to talk about the need to be optimistic. J...

Matt Western | 635 c3WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is a responsibility for the public, industry and the Gov...

Paul Scully | 635 c3WH (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question, but I challenge the language he used—“crash out”—as...

Royston Smith | 635 c3WH (Link to this contribution)

This is not a competition, but not only did I vote for the Referendum party in 1997, I was a memb...

Paul Scully | 635 cc3-4WH (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. That is exactly right. We need to use the time imaginative...

Rupa Huq | 635 c4WH (Link to this contribution)

As a London MP like me, has the hon. Gentleman had representations from people who work in the Ci...

Paul Scully | 635 cc4-5WH (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I have had people talk to me about financial services. The financial services industry is im...

Peter Grant | 635 c5WH (Link to this contribution)

The main thing is that on a number of occasions, the European Commission has been keen to press o...

Paul Scully | 635 c5WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman was right in the first half of his intervention: there are undoubtedly competi...

Matt Western | 635 c5WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is generous to give way again. I want to come back to the point that in talkin...

Paul Scully | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman about certainty. That was why I was explaining that we ne...

Joanna Cherry | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making a very fair speech, but does he accept that the view of Lord Kerr, t...

Paul Scully | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

I have read what Lord Kerr said, and I accept that he has said that article 50 is revocable, but ...

Christine Jardine | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

What about the weight of legal opinion? What about the fact that it is not only Lord Kerr, who wr...

Paul Scully | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

There is some legal opinion that says that. The hon. Lady talks about the weight of legal opinion...

Bernard Jenkin | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

Is it not ironic that the lawyers who brought the case under the guidance of Gina Miller to requi...

Paul Scully | 635 c6WH (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for making that powerful point.

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c7WH (Link to this contribution)

The lawyers conceded that point, but it was not directly relevant to the case that was being argu...

Bernard Jenkin | 635 c7WH (Link to this contribution)

It was the premise of the judgment.

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c7WH (Link to this contribution)

I hear the chuntering from my hon. Friend, but the reality was that it was not the issue that was...

Paul Scully | 635 c7WH (Link to this contribution)

That exchange is interesting, but it is moot, because we are off. The point is whether we are off...

Matt Western | 635 c7WH (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. I totally concur with him and his summary, and I...

Paul Scully | 635 cc7-8WH (Link to this contribution)

There is plenty of uncertainty that we need to get rid of. I do not have time to start attacking ...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 cc8-10WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. My remarks will first address the pe...

Rupa Huq | 635 cc10-1WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. When I speak in these petition debat...

Rupa Huq | 635 c11WH (Link to this contribution)

Okay, I will. My speech is really just an outgrown intervention, so I will not take loads of inte...

Paul Scully | 635 c11WH (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady. She says that she cannot see a reason why people might sign the petition. ...

Rupa Huq | 635 cc11-2WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a wise point, which shows the danger of standing up and trying to make a...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c12WH (Link to this contribution)

I have a business in my constituency that manufactures paper cups. I think £400,000 of investment...

Rupa Huq | 635 cc12-4WH (Link to this contribution)

I completely sympathise and agree with what the hon. Lady says; I have found the same thing. Ther...

Luke Graham | 635 c14WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your stewardship, Mrs Moon.

Brexit is obviously one of the ...

Luke Graham | 635 cc14-5WH (Link to this contribution)

I will progress the point a little further first.

There has been some talk about potential ...

Christine Jardine | 635 c15WH (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman giving way. Does he accept that the question is not so much about...

Luke Graham | 635 c16WH (Link to this contribution)

In my view, we had a clear vote on whether to be in or out of the EU and the decision has been ma...

Christine Jardine | 635 c16WH (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon.

We have to take this petition a...

Paul Scully | 635 c16WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady agree that the phrase “crashing out” tends to come from the people who want to...

Christine Jardine | 635 cc16-8WH (Link to this contribution)

That would be the reality, though: we would simply say, “We’re going.” That would be like a crash...

Royston Smith | 635 c18WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady agree that comments such as the ones that she makes about staying in the singl...

Christine Jardine | 635 c18WH (Link to this contribution)

One point about democracy that we have not touched on, other than mentioning that we should have ...

Andrew Bowie | 635 cc18-9WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a genuine pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon.

Last Thursday, I had t...

Joanna Cherry | 635 c19WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Joanna Cherry | 635 c19WH (Link to this contribution)

I am sure it will come as no surprise to the hon. Gentleman that I do not agree that the argument...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c19WH (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely accept that. That was the case at the time, of course, but the people of Scotland we...

Peter Grant | 635 c19WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman remind us how David Cameron’s party got on in Scotland in 2015, when it p...

Andrew Bowie | 635 cc19-20WH (Link to this contribution)

It will come as no surprise to the hon. Gentleman that I tend to reflect more favourably on the r...

Joanna Cherry | 635 c20WH (Link to this contribution)

I too attended a summit at the weekend in the wake of the Franco-British summit. It was a summit ...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c20WH (Link to this contribution)

I do not advocate, nor do I think anyone in the Government advocates, crashing out. The negotiati...

Christine Jardine | 635 c20WH (Link to this contribution)

Does that mean that it is now accepted that the argument that no deal is better than a bad deal i...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c20WH (Link to this contribution)

I will come to this in a second, but I am saying that I believe a good deal is very much on the c...

Joanna Cherry | 635 c20WH (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman able to provide the clarity that his colleagues in the Government have so f...

Andrew Bowie | 635 cc20-1WH (Link to this contribution)

I refer the hon. and learned Lady to the Prime Minister’s speeches at Lancaster House here in Lon...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c21WH (Link to this contribution)

I will not, because I have given way many times. I apologise.

Of course, we must be prepare...

Ross Thomson | 635 c21WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon.

During the 2016 referendum, I ...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c21WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Ross Thomson | 635 c21WH (Link to this contribution)

No, I would like to make some progress first.

Scottish attitudes are actually similar to th...

Ross Thomson | 635 c21WH (Link to this contribution)

No, I would like to make some more progress, but I will take an intervention from the hon. Lady i...

Christine Jardine | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept, then, that we should discuss and debate? Is it not the Opposition...

Ross Thomson | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right: every Opposition should hold the Government to account and hol...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Ross Thomson | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

No, I would like to make some progress on addressing the point of the petition. It asks us: “Why ...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

I am a member of the Exiting the European Union Committee, and when we took evidence it was clear...

Ross Thomson | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

That proves the point: we have seen nothing constructive from the Opposition. Actually, in the sa...

Royston Smith | 635 c22WH (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that, first, it seems the overwhelming majority of people who want a se...

Ross Thomson | 635 c23WH (Link to this contribution)

I agree. If the result had gone the other way and the United Kingdom had voted to remain in the E...

Christine Jardine | 635 c23WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

Ross Thomson | 635 c23WH (Link to this contribution)

I would like to make some more progress. I do not think we would have seen a call for another ref...

Peter Grant | 635 c23WH (Link to this contribution)

How can anyone know what is right or wrong about forecasts of the economic impact of Brexit when ...

Ross Thomson | 635 cc23-4WH (Link to this contribution)

I vividly remember being told during that campaign that, according to the Treasury, not just leav...

Peter Grant | 635 c24WH (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to begin the summing up of the debate. Interestingly, no one wanted to speak about h...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c24WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Madeleine Moon | 635 c24WH (Link to this contribution)

I call Ross Thomson—sorry, Andrew Bowie.

Andrew Bowie | 635 c24WH (Link to this contribution)

I have been called much worse, Mrs Moon. I may be wrong—forgive me—but I did not hear anyone in t...

Peter Grant | 635 cc24-5WH (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I have misunderstood what a buccaneering maritime trading nation is or what period in his...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c25WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the accusations about “Project Fear” are way off? We should ta...

Peter Grant | 635 c25WH (Link to this contribution)

To be honest, some of the claims made by those who claimed to be on the remain side before the re...

Royston Smith | 635 c25WH (Link to this contribution)

Going back to my earlier comments, would the hon. Gentleman agree that continually saying people ...

Peter Grant | 635 cc25-6WH (Link to this contribution)

No, I do not agree at all. I remember when one of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in the main Cha...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c26WH (Link to this contribution)

Is it not time that we all admitted that there were things we did not know about the European Uni...

Peter Grant | 635 cc26-7WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a valid point. However, I want to make it clear that I respect the wish of th...

Luke Graham | 635 c27WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Ross Thomson | 635 c27WH (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Peter Grant | 635 c27WH (Link to this contribution)

My goodness—what a decision! The hon. Gentlemen are almost identical. I give way to the hon. Memb...

Ross Thomson | 635 c27WH (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman accepts that is not the Scottish Conservatives w...

Peter Grant | 635 cc27-8WH (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid what the hon. Gentleman says about its being against the wishes of the people is comp...

Christine Jardine | 635 c28WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman mentions the choice between the 55% who want to stay in the UK and the 62% who...

Peter Grant | 635 c28WH (Link to this contribution)

I think that that prospect is becoming much less likely as time goes on. We certainly can retain ...

Andrew Bowie | 635 c28WH (Link to this contribution)

The difference between those two referendums is that the one on our membership of the European Un...

Peter Grant | 635 cc28-9WH (Link to this contribution)

It was legal according to the wish of the people of Catalonia. The referendum in Gibraltar was il...

Luke Graham | 635 c29WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has made a few valid points in his speech about ensuring honesty and clarity o...

Peter Grant | 635 c30WH (Link to this contribution)

That prompts the question as to why the Secretary of State for Scotland made those unconditional ...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c30WH (Link to this contribution)

It is all very well to explain that, but when we look at the signatures on the petition, they com...

Peter Grant | 635 cc30-2WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a valid point, and I have a lot of sympathy with her. However, the fact is th...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 635 cc32-4WH (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to serve again under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson.

We have had a goo...

Wera Hobhouse | 635 c33WH (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has admitted that we had a good and constructive debate about how we all need to ha...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 635 c33WH (Link to this contribution)

I do not know what deal the Government are going to make. I hope that they are capable of making ...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c33WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady agree that, from that point of view, EFTA membership is very attractive? One o...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 635 cc35-6WH (Link to this contribution)

Well, it could, but we should not be so lacking in imagination that we cannot conceive of alterna...

Suella Braverman | 635 cc36-7WH (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for your stewardship and chairmanship of this worthwhile and interesting debate, Mr Han...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c37WH (Link to this contribution)

I just want to take the Minister back to her point about democracy. Does she accept that no Parli...

Suella Braverman | 635 cc37-8WH (Link to this contribution)

The referendum that we saw in 2016 was a brilliant example of a thriving democracy. That vote, wh...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c38WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister accept the recommendations of various Committees, including the Business, Energ...

Suella Braverman | 635 c39WH (Link to this contribution)

No. The Government’s policy is to leave Euratom, because although it provides some benefits, it a...

Peter Grant | 635 c39WH (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister not accept that the Government might have got things the wrong way around? They...

Suella Braverman | 635 cc39-40WH (Link to this contribution)

A vote to leave the European Union entails an end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Ju...

Antoinette Sandbach | 635 c40WH (Link to this contribution)

Of course, we will still be subject to the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights. My cons...

Suella Braverman | 635 c40WH (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend rightly points out, the European Court of Human Rights arises from the European...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 635 c40WH (Link to this contribution)

I am listening to what the Minister is saying, and I have a lot of time for the interventions fro...

Suella Braverman | 635 c40WH (Link to this contribution)

I must disagree with the hon. Lady. I think that sovereignty, whether it is parliamentary or lega...

Suella Braverman | 635 c41WH (Link to this contribution)

On many issues. Whether on immigration, on which the ECJ has the final say, or on nuclear safegua...

Suella Braverman | 635 cc41-2WH (Link to this contribution)

I will not, because I have been generous in giving way and accepting many interventions.

It...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 635 c42WH (Link to this contribution)

I very much hope it is a point of order.

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 635 c42WH (Link to this contribution)

I would not let you down, Mr Hanson. Is it in order for a Minister to decline to take an interven...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 635 c42WH (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the point of order, but the Minister has the Floor. She can give way or not, ac...

Suella Braverman | 635 c42WH (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Hanson.

Our country will be free to harness our people’s abilities, talents a...

Paul Scully | 635 cc42-4WH (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to all hon. Members for such a good-natured debate—unlike some other debates and he...

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