UK Parliament / Open data

Higher Education and Research Bill

Debate on bills and Legislative Grand Committee proceedings (HC) on Monday, 21 November 2016, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Johnson of Marylebone. The answering member was Gordon Marsden.
Report stage. New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 4, 7, 9, 12, 14 to 16, agreed to. New clause 2, discussed with new clauses 3, 5, 6, 8 and 10, negatived on division (180 to 278). New clause 5 negatived on division (181 to 278). New clause 11 debated and withdrawn. New clause 14 negatived on division (211 to 280). Clause 25, amendment negatived on division (216 to 277). Clause 40, amendment negatived on division (212 to 281). Clause 95, amendment negatived on division (217 to 275). Speaker announced his certification in relation to the Bill. Legislative Grand Committee (England and Wales) and Legislative Grand Committee (England) agreed to the consent motions, and the decisions were reported. Queen's Consent signified. Third reading. Agreed to on division (279 to 214). Bill passed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
617 cc615-716 
Session
2016-17
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Higher Education and Research Bill 2016-17. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 18 October 2016
Bills
House of Commons
Higher Education and Research Bill: Committee Stage Report
Wednesday, 16 November 2016
Research briefings
Office for Students: Public Appointments
Tuesday, 30 January 2018
Written questions
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
John Bercow | 617 c615 (Link to this contribution)

Members will note that I have, unusually, selected some starred amendments. I have done so in the...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c615 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.


Show all contributions (147)
John Bercow | 617 cc615-621 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 4—Committee on Degree ...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c621 (Link to this contribution)

New clause 1 relates to the Office for Students, which is central to the Bill and has quality, st...

John Howell | 617 c621 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the need for monitoring the financial sustainability of organisations, but the new c...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc621-2 (Link to this contribution)

The duty of the Office for Students will be to ensure that it is monitoring effectively the overa...

Jim Cunningham | 617 c622 (Link to this contribution)

Will the regulator have the power to ensure that there are good industrial relations within our u...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c622 (Link to this contribution)

Higher education institutions are private and autonomous bodies that are self-organising. It is o...

Wes Streeting | 617 c622 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister clearly does not believe that the Bill is the right vehicle for the issues under con...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c622 (Link to this contribution)

The Home Secretary has said that in the coming weeks we will consult on a non-European economic a...

Roger Mullin | 617 c623 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister referred to “an element”. The post-study work visa is not just the subject of “an el...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc623-4 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. The Government fully agree with the hon. Gentleman that international students bring a lo...

Rupa Huq | 617 c624 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentioned the TEF and the REF. Does he agree that the REF took several years to bed ...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c624 (Link to this contribution)

The TEF is not being rushed; it is being piloted for the first two years. Awards will not be diff...

Mark Field | 617 c624 (Link to this contribution)

I applaud the Minister’s view that we should focus on quality in the sector, rather than just vol...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc624-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for his helpful intervention. We have studied regulatory systems aro...

Paul Blomfield | 617 cc625-7 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak on new clause 7 and amendments 49 to 51, which are in my name. New clause 7 and a...

Mark Hendrick | 617 c626 (Link to this contribution)

Should the demonstrable link involve a recognition of the experience and qualifications of lectur...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c626 (Link to this contribution)

Measuring teaching quality is difficult, but if we are going to do it, and if we are going to lin...

Roger Mullin | 617 c626 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman therefore agree with Professor Jack Dowie’s view that the teaching excell...

Paul Blomfield | 617 cc626-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has expressed my concern exactly. This is the reason behind my amendment. Ther...

Rupa Huq | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

I am loth to interrupt my hon. Friend because he is in full flow and making a powerful point, but...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to joining my hon. Friend in Westminster Hall on Wednesday, because she makes a va...

Mark Hendrick | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, many mainland European universities now offer courses in English. Our leaving the ...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend highlights a new dimension to the challenge facing our universities as a result of...

Jim Cunningham | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

Coventry has two universities. A big concern following Brexit is that international students, in ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 617 c628 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman is certainly testing my patience. It is one thing to come in and then a...

Paul Blomfield | 617 cc628-9 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I appreciate the intervention of my hon. Friend, because he is a st...

Mark Field | 617 c629 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will know that I entirely accept his last point about a number of these postgr...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c629 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He and I have worked closely on a number o...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman should remind himself that international student applications have gone up 14%...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

Well, I would be interested for the Minister to intervene again and say over what period, because...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

We will probably disagree on those figures. I think I have heard the Minister say previously—if i...

Wes Streeting | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with everything that my hon. Friend is saying. Can he imagine a scenario where h...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes the point that I was about to make. If we were looking at a teaching excelle...

Hywel Williams | 617 c630 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there may be not just reputational damage at home, but consequ...

Paul Blomfield | 617 cc630-1 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. It is not just the recruitment of students but the b...

Carol Monaghan | 617 cc631-2 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to new clause 14 on post-study work visa evaluation, and I reserve the right to p...

Mark Field | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has made a strong case for why she feels post-study work visas should be reintroduc...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

Certain rogue institutions—particularly private FE colleges—have in the past not complied with vi...

Roger Mullin | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

In last week’s Westminster Hall debate, I specifically challenged the Home Office Minister to nam...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

The 19 higher education institutes in Scotland have a strong record in attracting international s...

Jim Cunningham | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

The Scottish Affairs Committee has been looking at some of the issues that the hon. Lady has ment...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c632 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. It is well documented that in Scotland our issue...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c633 (Link to this contribution)

No—I have given way enough for the moment.

Last month, Professor Timothy O’Shea, the princi...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc633-4 (Link to this contribution)

I want to speak to new clause 16, which draws on some of the points that my hon. Friend the Membe...

Mark Hendrick | 617 c634 (Link to this contribution)

I concur with my hon. Friend on the contribution of international students and the very good expe...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc634-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The Government should take on board his point about that...

Mark Hendrick | 617 c635 (Link to this contribution)

Given that the Government are supposed to believe in markets, it is bizarre that, when Times Educ...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc635-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. International students are central to the business model...

Jo Churchill | 617 c636 (Link to this contribution)

A university is an establishment where higher-level study, education and research are done. It is...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 c636 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady was on the Committee, and I am sure that she will recall that the things in the ame...

Jo Churchill | 617 c636 (Link to this contribution)

I concur, up to a point. I am hugely proud of universities, and I am hugely proud of what they de...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 c636 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, think that BT has a number of strengths as a company, but it is yet to be determined whet...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c636 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) picked out the issue of five-a-side football, ...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc636-7 (Link to this contribution)

I concur exactly with my hon. Friend. In Committee, the Minister said that he was setting

“...

Wes Streeting | 617 c637 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to colleagues for raising so many points that came up in Committee which particular...

Jo Churchill | 617 c637 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman define what he considers a typical student to be, so that I can gauge his...

Wes Streeting | 617 c638 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly do not think that we will be able to find a typical student to sit on the board of th...

Mark Hendrick | 617 c638 (Link to this contribution)

Although I agree with everything that my hon. Friend is saying, I think that the hon. Member for ...

Wes Streeting | 617 cc638-9 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree with that point, which brings me back to the skills and expertise that student...

John Pugh | 617 cc639-641 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to members of the Public Bill Committee: I did not make the cut, so they have the adv...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc641-5 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to our amendments, but also to comment on others, including the Minister’s new cl...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc645-7 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a good debate and I am glad to have the chance to respond to some of the points mad...

Gordon Marsden | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely accept the Minister’s bona fides and commitments on this issue, but is it true that Ho...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

The visit to India, which I was honoured to be part of, was a big success in that it gave us nume...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

I assure the Minister that we are very calm about this issue, but he could calm us further by exp...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

High-quality institutions are compliant institutions. We want compliance to be a strong feature o...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister talks about compliance. Why did the Home Secretary not talk about compliance? She ta...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman reads the Home Secretary’s speech carefully, he will see that she did menti...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c647 (Link to this contribution)

High-quality institutions could offer poor-quality courses, just as institutions with a bronze ra...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc647-8 (Link to this contribution)

I urge the hon. Lady to wait for the consultation document. She will be able to assess the Govern...

Gordon Marsden | 617 c648 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister might wish to comment specifically on new clause 4, but will he tell us why the Gove...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c649 (Link to this contribution)

In relation to new clause 4, we intend to keep the processes relating to the scrutiny of applicat...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 c649 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give the House some idea of when that guidance might be available?

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc649-650 (Link to this contribution)

We plan to put out guidance in the coming months. The hon. Lady will be the first to receive it w...

Gordon Marsden | 617 c650 (Link to this contribution)

I think the Minister is coming to his peroration, so I just wondered whether he will be able to m...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c650 (Link to this contribution)

I touched on that at the start of my remarks. The Opposition proposed a commission for lifelong l...

Wes Streeting | 617 c651 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 617 cc651-3 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 3—Student loans: regul...

Wes Streeting | 617 cc653-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to move new clause 2 and to speak to the other new clauses conc...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c654 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an extremely powerful case. Does he not think that, had this happened in...

Wes Streeting | 617 cc654-6 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, which is why the student loans system should be brought wit...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc656-7 (Link to this contribution)

When we reformed student finance in 2011, we put in place a system designed to make higher educat...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c657 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is talking about the affordability and sustainability of systems. Does he acknowledg...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c657 (Link to this contribution)

The estimation of the RAB charge is still broadly in that ballpark, with the current estimate bei...

Wes Streeting | 617 c657 (Link to this contribution)

I anticipated that the Minister would point out how permissive the terms and conditions were, whi...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc657-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Financial Conduct Authority. I remind him that it was under the ...

Wes Streeting | 617 c658 (Link to this contribution)

It would be perfectly possible for the FCA to regulate within the scope of the student finance sy...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c658 (Link to this contribution)

The key terms and conditions are set out in legislation—it is the law that binds us—and are subje...

Peter Bottomley | 617 c658 (Link to this contribution)

Is that £5 billion a capital estimate of the value of the loan book or is it the annual running c...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc658-9 (Link to this contribution)

That represents a decrease in the capital value of the loan book.

The cost of uprating by t...

Paul Blomfield | 617 cc659-660 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister briefly addressed new clause 8, although in anticipating it, he understated and, to ...

Wes Streeting | 617 c660 (Link to this contribution)

I have a constituent in just that position. They went through school, they did well, they were re...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c661 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Not only is this a waste for the individual, but we as a soci...

John Pugh | 617 c661 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to add a brief footnote to new clause 10, which is in my name, and to say things that othe...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc661-2 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to Labour’s new clause 5, which would revoke the Education (Student Support) (Ame...

Jo Churchill | 617 c662 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Jo Churchill | 617 c662 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman allude to how Labour intends to pay for all these benefits, because I thi...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc662-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady must be a mind reader because I am just coming to on that issue.

Bringing bac...

Jo Churchill | 617 c663 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Gordon Marsden | 617 c663 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not—the hon. Lady has had one go. Let me proceed because we do not have a lot of time....

Jo Churchill | 617 c663 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way for two seconds?

Jo Churchill | 617 c663 (Link to this contribution)

How does the hon. Gentleman explain the fact that covering the figure of £12 billion would mean a...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc663-4 (Link to this contribution)

That was a hell of a lot more than two seconds, but I forgive the hon. Lady. We need to look at t...

Sammy Wilson | 617 c664 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the situation he describes particularly hits students in plac...

Gordon Marsden | 617 c664 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, as he is to make that point about the situation for stude...

John Pugh | 617 c672 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 617 cc672-4 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 57, in clause 40, page ...

John Pugh | 617 cc674-5 (Link to this contribution)

It might be helpful if I refreshed hon. Members’ memories about what new clause 11 contains, so t...

Carol Monaghan | 617 cc675-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will speak to amendments 55 and 56. I will start with amendment 56, which is in my name and tha...

Hywel Williams | 617 c676 (Link to this contribution)

I back the hon. Lady’s points, and note that Welsh universities have particular priorities when i...

Carol Monaghan | 617 cc676-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point. Scotland does very well out of the research councils, ...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc677-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank honourable colleagues for their enthusiastic support for our world-class research and inn...

Hywel Williams | 617 c679 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the record will show whether the Minister said earlier, in respect of Government a...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc679-680 (Link to this contribution)

It will be at least one person with experience of one or more of the devolved Administrations. To...

Paul Blomfield | 617 c680 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has articulated exactly the sentiments shared by Opposition Members—for us, too, thi...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c680 (Link to this contribution)

There is no higher authority in the Government than the Prime Minister, and we have heard from he...

Kirsten Oswald | 617 c680 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister appreciate that such statements are cold comfort to people in that position and...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc680-1 (Link to this contribution)

We as a Government can only reiterate that we fully appreciate and value their presence in our in...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc681-2 (Link to this contribution)

Our amendments 43 to 45 are on collaboration between the OFS and UKRI. I will come to those and t...

Jim Shannon | 617 c682 (Link to this contribution)

On the subject of Northern Ireland, the Minister will know that Queen’s University, Belfast has a...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc682-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. It would, of course, be invidious for me to ...

Daniel Zeichner | 617 c683 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will appreciate that a number of institutions are concerned—I suspect he was about...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc683-4 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to say that my hon. Friend, as the MP for Cambridge, is at the cutting-edge, or certa...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 c685 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to speak about amendments 57 and 59, and amendment (a) to Government amendment 17.

I...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 c685 (Link to this contribution)

UKRI and the OFS are under an obligation to act efficiently and effectively, and to deliver value...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc685-7 (Link to this contribution)

That seems a bit convoluted.

A number of universities are still raising issues. We have jus...

Roger Mullin | 617 c686 (Link to this contribution)

I hope not to detain the House for terribly long, but I would like to make several points. The Mi...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 617 c686 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Queen’s University Belfast—I must declare an interest; I graduat...

Roger Mullin | 617 c688 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. I was not aware of that, but she raises a situation ...

Deidre Brock | 617 cc688-9 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend has mentioned, many people working in higher education in Scotland are very wor...

John Pugh | 617 c689 (Link to this contribution)

I do not propose to press my new clause to a vote.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

John Bercow | 617 c710 (Link to this contribution)

Our consideration having been completed, I will now suspend the House for no more than five minut...

John Bercow | 617 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I can now inform the House of my decision about certification. For the purposes of Standing Order...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc710-1 (Link to this contribution)

indicated assent.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee ...

Lord Johnson of Marylebone | 617 cc711-3 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

Let me first convey my thanks to t...

Gordon Marsden | 617 cc712-4 (Link to this contribution)

I associate myself with the Minister’s thanks to all who have contributed to the Bill, most espec...

Carol Monaghan | 617 cc714-5 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by associating myself with what was said by the Minister and the hon. Member for Bla...

Patrick Grady | 617 c715 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making very clear why so much of the Bill is important to our constituents in S...

Carol Monaghan | 617 c715 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure who those procedures served, but I cannot imagine that they served the people of En...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 617 cc715-6 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to echo some of the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Mars...

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