UK Parliament / Open data

Police Grant Report (England and Wales)

Debate on Wednesday, 10 February 2016, in the House of Commons, led by Mike Penning. The answering member was Jack Dromey.
Motion that the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2016–17 (HC 753), which was laid before this House on 4 February, be approved. Double majority required. Agreed to on division (310 to 212). Agreed to by Members representing qualifying constituencies in England and Wales (305 to 208).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
605 cc1585-1631 
Session
2015-16
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2016–17
Thursday, 4 February 2016
House of Commons papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0383
Thursday, 21 April 2016
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
John Bercow | 605 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

I remind the House that this motion is subject to double majority voting. If a Division is called...

Mike Penning | 605 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2016–17 (HC 753), which...


Show all contributions (183)
Gareth Thomas | 605 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

If the Minister and his ministerial colleagues decide to extend the term of the Metropolitan Poli...

Mike Penning | 605 cc1586-7 (Link to this contribution)

Unlike the previous Labour Administration, we believe in police officers making the decisions the...

Philip Davies | 605 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

As the Minister knows, I have opposed cuts to the policing budget every year but he has always ha...

Mike Penning | 605 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is nothing less than determined to press his case every time, but crime has fallen...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 605 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister must accept that there are 18,000 fewer police officers than when I stood at that Di...

Mike Penning | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

Let me make a couple of points about that. The right hon. Gentleman, with his experience of being...

Andy Burnham | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mike Penning | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

Not for the moment. I will give way to the shadow Home Secretary when I have given way to colleag...

Jake Berry | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way. I feel almost as though I have been promoted, given ...

Mike Penning | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

I met a delegation of Lancashire Members from all parts of the House, and indeed I met everyone w...

Mike Penning | 605 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

Before I give way to the shadow Home Secretary, let me make a point about precepts. All Governmen...

Andy Burnham | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister, but let us get something straight. When I became shadow Home Secre...

Mike Penning | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I am so pleased that I gave way to the right hon. Gentleman. I should have given way earlier—I ap...

Mike Penning | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I am always straight. The right hon. Gentleman can sit there and waffle away from a sedentary pos...

Keith Vaz | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister should be commended for being the first Policing Minister in a generation to tackle ...

Mike Penning | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Chairman of the Committee for his letter, and also for the kind comments that he ofte...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 605 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

May I question the Minister on a point of fact? I know that he will have the facts in front of hi...

Mike Penning | 605 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the hon. Gentleman is wrong. Not only have I met South Wales MPs in the last couple ...

Andrew Gwynne | 605 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is right to commend the hard work of the police in very difficult circumstances, but...

Mike Penning | 605 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that crime has fallen in Manchester since 2010, as it has in the re...

Mike Penning | 605 c1591 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark, but I will give way to the h...

Neil Coyle | 605 c1591 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says that it is important for people to have the confidence to report crime. In Lond...

Mike Penning | 605 c1591 (Link to this contribution)

I have never insulted an officer, or anyone’s constituent, in my entire life, and I never will. I...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1591 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the point that the Minister was trying to make about the emergency services working ...

Mike Penning | 605 cc1591-2 (Link to this contribution)

We are seeing that sort of collaborative work across the country and some of it is being paid for...

Andrew Gwynne | 605 c1592 (Link to this contribution)

I want to take the Minister back to the answer he gave me some moments ago. Of course it is not m...

Mike Penning | 605 c1592 (Link to this contribution)

That really depends on where those officers were in the first place. Were they working in the com...

Khalid Mahmood | 605 c1592 (Link to this contribution)

May I plead with the Minister to look urgently at the rise in gun crime in the west midlands? Wil...

Mike Penning | 605 c1592 (Link to this contribution)

I saw reports of those shootings on the news and I got reports across my desk as well. Our though...

Catherine West | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood) mentioned the shootings in his ...

Mike Penning | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

Why anybody would get in a car, drive off, open the window and shoot someone is beyond me, and pr...

Catherine West | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

There are orphans who are suffering as a result of that—

John Bercow | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I think we need to be clear whose intervention is being taken. The hon. Member for Hornsey...

Debbie Abrahams | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I have another tale of w...

Mike Penning | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

The fact that it is a priority is exactly why the Chancellor stood at this Dispatch Box and said ...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 605 c1593 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is making a strong case. Is it not important to trust the professionals in the polic...

Mike Penning | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has just touched on a point that I was going to make about collaboration. None of ...

Mike Penning | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

I have been called many things since I have been in this House, and before I came here, but “frit...

Andy Burnham | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to hear it, because I never did think that the Minister was in that category. He is say...

Mike Penning | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

I know the Labour party are desperately trying to find a reason to vote against our very generous...

Rehman Chishti | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

There has been a lot of talk about cuts, and indeed about the horrific issue of gun crime, but th...

Mike Penning | 605 c1594 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. We fund counter-terrorism from a separate budget, ...

Catherine McKinnell | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

I am slightly baffled by the Minister’s comments. Northumbria police force expects to have lost a...

Mike Penning | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

Let me go over the arguments. We inherited a fiscal mess left by the previous Administration. We ...

Stephen Hammond | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening carefully to the Minister. I met my local borough commander last Friday, an...

Mike Penning | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has brought me on to an interesting point. The Friday before last, I was at Hendon...

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

We all know that one perennial problem of policing has been the amount of time that police office...

Mike Penning | 605 c1595 (Link to this contribution)

There are a myriad different ways we can give the required confidence to our constituents, with o...

Mike Penning | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once more and then I will come to my closing remarks.

Victoria Atkins | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister join me in congratulating the Conservative candidate in the Lincolnshire PCC el...

Mike Penning | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

I have spent quite a bit of time in Lincolnshire over the years, and was lobbied extensively by t...

Edward Leigh | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

In Lincolnshire, we are very grateful to this Minister, because he has done more than any other M...

Mike Penning | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

I know exactly what my hon. Friend is saying and I know exactly what is in the letter, because I ...

Rehman Chishti | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

On collaboration, will the Minister pay tribute to the work being done by Essex and Kent police o...

Mike Penning | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

That type of collaboration is so important. For too many years forces have sat in silos, as have ...

Mike Penning | 605 c1596 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way one last time and then I will sum up.

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 605 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

I am anxious to ensure that the Minister does not peak too soon. First, I pay tribute to Cambridg...

Mike Penning | 605 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has touched on a really important point. I had the honour the other week of contin...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

I bow to no one in my admiration for our police service. Robert Peel uttered these immortal words...

Jake Berry | 605 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

On the issue of bowing to no one, will the hon. Gentleman support this settlement today, or will ...

Jack Dromey | 605 cc1597-8 (Link to this contribution)

We will oppose this settlement today. The Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Minister for Polici...

Andrew Gwynne | 605 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. He is absolutely right to go back to the Labour s...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Typically, what we see all over the country is a neighbourhoo...

Diana Johnson | 605 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend comment on the fact that Humberside police—I do not think it is the only poli...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Surveys show that, increasingly, the public complain about a ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 605 c1598 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend confirm that we are not just talking about crime? When we have floods in our ...

Jack Dromey | 605 cc1598-9 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend, who served with such distinction as a police Minister, is absolutely right....

Debbie Abrahams | 605 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend might have heard me ask the Minister to comment on burglaries in Saddleworth, in w...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. If we look at the statistics overall, we see that areas of...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 605 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making a fair point. It would be churlish not to accept that there was prog...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1599 (Link to this contribution)

Let me give a straight answer. I think that we did prescribe too much and too often. It was right...

Catherine West | 605 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that, in relation to the very serious act of gun crime, neighbourhood p...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

It is difficult to comment on the detailed circumstances of that crime other than to say that, of...

Stephen Hammond | 605 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the shadow Minister that neighbourhood policing is key. Does he agree with the borou...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

That depends what we are talking about. For example, the West Midlands police service has sought ...

Jack Dromey | 605 cc1600-1 (Link to this contribution)

I have given way about nine times. Let me make a little more progress, then I will gladly give wa...

Mary Glindon | 605 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

On the precept, is my hon. Friend aware that a force such as Northumbria, which, under our excell...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. I pay tribute to somebody who was a great parliamentarian and who has been a great police...

Baroness Keeley | 605 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that some of our police forces are stretched just by the crime that the...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

There has been an £8.5 million cut in real terms, contrary to what was said at the Dispatch Box. ...

Andrew Gwynne | 605 c1601 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right to point out the sleight of hand by the Government. The real unfairness t...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend sets out the case powerfully. There is no question but that need does not determin...

Oliver Heald | 605 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

In a forward-looking county such as Hertfordshire, which has the pressures of supporting London a...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

Every week I see innovation in the police service; of that there is no doubt. In relation to road...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

I shall refer later to old Macmillanites. On the basis that I believe the hon. and learned Gentle...

Oliver Heald | 605 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is very generous, though I shall not comment on that. Does he agree that polic...

Jack Dromey | 605 cc1602-3 (Link to this contribution)

If I can put it this way, that is a canard, as we used to say in the T and G. Of course it is rig...

Rehman Chishti | 605 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Jack Dromey | 605 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

No, forgive me if I finish this important point.

Numbers matter. In the light of attacks su...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to somebody who has not already spoken.

Simon Hoare | 605 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

It is all well and good bandying numbers around and saying we must have the capability to make a ...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

The Opposition—all of us—have a very simple view. Perhaps I can draw a parallel with the deeply m...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1604 (Link to this contribution)

I am slightly confused, and I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman can help me. He says that savings...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1604 (Link to this contribution)

After Paris, the Government made a series of announcements—there was also one that pre-dated Pari...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1605 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to conclude my remarks, because I have been—forgive me if I say so—generous with inter...

John Stevenson | 605 cc1605-7 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to say a few words about police funding and, in particular, its significance for pol...

Keith Vaz | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson), who has put forward som...

Mike Penning | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

As the Serjeant at Arms was not in his place when I paid tribute to him earlier, Mr Deputy Speake...

Keith Vaz | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

Those are two wonderful recommendations.

Keith Vaz | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

I see that we will now have another tribute to the Serjeant at Arms from the shadow Policing Mini...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Now that the Serjeant at Arms is in his place, I would lik...

Lindsay Hoyle | 605 c1607 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Mr Dromey, can I just help out? The Front Benchers took well over an hour and there has be...

Keith Vaz | 605 cc1607-9 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, Mr Deputy Speaker. We now move on, your having encouraged everyone to do so, to the d...

Baroness Keeley | 605 c1609 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making a thoughtful and effective speech. As part of the consultation, wi...

Keith Vaz | 605 cc1609-1610 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have visited her constituency, and I know that the issues s...

Rebecca Harris | 605 c1610 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that we have come to over-rely on our police for a lot of thi...

Keith Vaz | 605 c1610 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. There are other people who can step in. As those of us who sup...

Rebecca Harris | 605 cc1610-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for the opportunity to add my comments to this important debate. Policing and ...

Victoria Atkins | 605 c1611 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware of the welcome police officers have given to the introduction of on-body ...

Rebecca Harris | 605 cc1611-2 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. I have seen officers in action with their cameras, which they can use, for example, w...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1612 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a very effective point about her local force. If I am called to speak, I...

Rebecca Harris | 605 c1612 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely welcome the announcement of those funds. A lot of things are already going on in the...

John Stevenson | 605 c1612 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, does my hon. Friend agree that such innovations and making our police forces far m...

Rebecca Harris | 605 cc1612-4 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. I will come on to that point later, but the innovation of police and crime commission...

Lindsay Hoyle | 605 c1613 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I have allowed the hon. Lady to cover a broad scope, but I do not want to get into campaig...

Rebecca Harris | 605 c1613 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker. Thank you for your indulgence.

Despite the huge debt burden...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 605 cc1613-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. May I join in the welcome to the ...

Lord Beamish | 605 c1615 (Link to this contribution)

This Government clearly have a small-state Conservative view of the world, as we have seen in loc...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 605 c1615 (Link to this contribution)

The constituents of north Wales and, I am sure, of Durham want a visible police force that engage...

Baroness Keeley | 605 c1615 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making some very effective points. I have already raised the issue of gun...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 605 cc1615-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes her point very well. As she says, we need not just high-level policing but c...

John Bercow | 605 c1616 (Link to this contribution)

I will now announce the result of the ballot held today for the election of a new Chair of the En...

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1616 (Link to this contribution)

May I briefly congratulate the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) on her election as Chair o...

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1618 (Link to this contribution)

You may be surprised to learn that, Mr Deputy Speaker. However, when police and crime commissione...

Lord Beamish | 605 c1618 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but will he address the point raised by my ...

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1618 (Link to this contribution)

I hear the hon. Gentleman’s point, but I feel that he may be thinking that Staffordshire is some ...

Lord Beamish | 605 c1619 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1619 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way because the House does not have much longer to debate this matter.

Lindsay Hoyle | 605 c1619 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The House has lots of time. If you wish to give way, Mr Pincher, you must do so, but do no...

Christopher Pincher | 605 c1619 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, as ever, for your guidance Mr Deputy Speaker, but I would not wish to impose on th...

Margaret Greenwood | 605 cc1619-1621 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) for his remarks about PC David Phil...

Conor McGinn | 605 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a strong case by articulating the impact that these cuts are having on c...

Margaret Greenwood | 605 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it is important that we value police officers and all pol...

Stephen Hammond | 605 cc1621-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate and a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wirra...

Kelvin Hopkins | 605 cc1622-4 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to speak briefly about Bedfordshire, which has been very seriously underfunded for a...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

Despite some of the scaremongering in the press, the police grant report is good news for police ...

Baroness Keeley | 605 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

I counsel the hon. Gentleman against talking about crime falling across the country. He is saying...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is talking about reported crime. According to the British crime survey, crime has f...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

I want to talk about rates of crime that have increased, so if the hon. Lady will allow me, I wil...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

My intervention will be quick, because I am keen that everyone has the chance to speak, but it is...

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1625 (Link to this contribution)

If the shadow Minister will hold his horses, I will talk about cybercrime and other types of crim...

Lindsay Hoyle | 605 c1625 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I said I did not want us campaigning for people standing

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

I thank you for that guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Andrew Stephenson | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

In conclusion, I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister for how he has worked with me and other ...

James Berry | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to make four brief points. First, on the level of funding, before the autumn statement, th...

James Berry | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, who was wronged earlier, because Durham is, in fact, the m...

Lord Beamish | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

I wanted to put the record straight for the hon. Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher). As th...

James Berry | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the Minister will deal with that in his response. I do not recognise those statistics, ...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1626 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

James Berry | 605 cc1626-8 (Link to this contribution)

No.

The point about flexibility is clearly lost on the Labour party. I recently attended a ...

Victoria Atkins | 605 cc1627-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is fitting that we are having this debate in the same week that the Prime Minister made a spee...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1629 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady mentions the money of the West Midlands police service, but it is overwhelmingly ea...

Victoria Atkins | 605 c1629 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly true that the chief constable was excited at the prospect of the new funding form...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 605 cc1629-1630 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) stands up, he will be called.

3.41 pm

Alex Chalk | 605 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. That is very kind.

As the Chancellor of the Exchequer said...

Lord Beamish | 605 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Beamish | 605 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the hon. Gentleman has to sit down when I stand up.

Lord Beamish | 605 c1630 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the present Government find it difficult to distinguish between revenue and capital, ...

Alex Chalk | 605 cc1630-1 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, it is important to put the settlement in context. Back in 2010—[Interruption.] Ma...

Jack Dromey | 605 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Alex Chalk | 605 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I will not take any more interventions.

Let us look at how that capability is being enhance...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 605 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I have now to announce the result of the deferred Division on the Question relating to the draft ...

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