UK Parliament / Open data

Pubs and Planning Legislation

Backbench debate on Thursday, 12 February 2015, in the House of Commons, led by Charlotte Leslie. The answering member was Stephen Williams.
Twenty-third backbench debate (part one). Motion that this House notes New Economics Foundation research showing that local economies benefit twice as much from a pound spent in a pub rather than a supermarket; expresses concern that valued and viable pubs are being lost due to permitted development rights which allow pubs to be demolished or turned into supermarkets and other uses without planning permission, denying local people any say; notes that supermarket chains are deliberately targeting pubs and further notes CAMRA research that two pubs a week are converted into supermarkets; supports CAMRA'S Pub Matters campaign calling for an end to permitted development rights on pubs; notes that any change of use to a nightclub, laundrette or theatre requires planning permission, making it odd to refuse pubs the same status; notes plans to remove permitted development rights from pubs listed as Assets of Community Value (ACVs), and calls on the Government to announce how and when this will happen; notes, however, that pubs achieving ACV status is not as simple as Ministers have suggested, with the requirement for local communities to provide boundaries and plans and that every pub must be listed separately making it unrealistic for communities to protect all valued pubs; further notes that each ACV application costs local authorities over a thousand pounds, and listing all valued UK pubs as ACVs would cost millions of pounds and create significant bureaucracy; and therefore calls on the Government to make a simpler change and put pubs into the sui generis category so that communities can comment on a proposal to convert or demolish a pub. Agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
592 cc965-1000 
Session
2014-15
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Community rights. Communities and Local Government Committee sixth report with formal minutes.
Tuesday, 20 January 2015
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Charlotte Leslie | 592 cc965-6 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House notes New Economics Foundation research showing that local e...

Grahame Morris | 592 c966 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is making a strong argument. Does she agree that this is in accordance with the Gov...


Show all contributions (58)
Charlotte Leslie | 592 c966 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree. This is the kind of localism the Government have been pushing very strongly i...

Philip Davies | 592 c966 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on her engagement in this subject and on the work she has done on p...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c967 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, my hon. Friend makes a good point. I do not think that would be the case, and it is cert...

Grahame Morris | 592 c967 (Link to this contribution)

On the Government’s suggestion that local authorities should list pubs that are genuinely valued ...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c967 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman prompts me in a timely way. As I understand it—he will correct me if I am wron...

Peter Bottomley | 592 c967 (Link to this contribution)

I shall not be able to take part in the debate later, owing to an unavoidable meeting. I speak as...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 cc967-8 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, my hon. Friend makes his point pithily; it would have taken me much longer to make that ...

Greg Mulholland | 592 c968 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to be working with my hon. Friend again, and I am delighted that we have secured...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c968 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely; this is not about a change of market. What is so frustrating is that we could all lis...

Bob Russell | 592 c968 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has just made the excellent point that the Government are trying to get people to s...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 cc968-9 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman describes the contrast between the two options perfectly. Pubs prevent the kin...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I am overwhelmed. I shall give way to my right hon. Friend first.

Alistair Burt | 592 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and apologise for not being here at its star...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c969 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for his excellent suggestion, and I put it directly to the Minister....

Peter Bottomley | 592 c970 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that my right hon. Friend spoke first, because his point was perhaps even more substant...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 cc970-1 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend very much, and he reminds me that I made an error and should have gone thr...

Natascha Engel | 592 c971 (Link to this contribution)

It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie). We cer...

Greg Mulholland | 592 c972 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way and I thank her for her support and for that of the Backbenc...

Natascha Engel | 592 c972 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, and those are the unforeseen consequences of such legislation. We are just asking for...

Rebecca Harris | 592 cc972-4 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on intro...

Grahame Morris | 592 cc974-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to follow the hon. Members who have spoken. I thank and pay tribute to fellow off...

Greg Mulholland | 592 cc976-8 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us the time for this debate. I also ...

Grahame Morris | 592 c978 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent case about the Government’s modest offer of a compromis...

Greg Mulholland | 592 cc979-981 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to cover that point.

The problem is the conversion of pubs into supermarkets...

Natascha Engel | 592 c981 (Link to this contribution)

May I add to that very long list? The hon. Gentleman talks about officers’ time. What is the cost...

Greg Mulholland | 592 cc981-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right and I will come on to that point once I have presented the view...

Robert Neill | 592 c984 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be comparatively brief.

I wish to be a little more generous to the Minister than so...

Natascha Engel | 592 c984 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the reason local communities are not better at listing these assets is that it is so diffi...

Robert Neill | 592 c984 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that local communities are necessarily lazy. That would be a patronising thing to ...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c984 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is an exceptionally efficient and effective Member. Does he think that the speed o...

Robert Neill | 592 c984 (Link to this contribution)

I regret to say that I had departed office by then, although I am delighted to say that the then ...

Robert Neill | 592 cc985-7 (Link to this contribution)

Let me make a bit of progress before giving way again.

First, we should look at ways of bei...

Rebecca Harris | 592 c986 (Link to this contribution)

What my hon. Friend says is precisely relevant to the case of The King Canute, which I raised ear...

Robert Neill | 592 c986 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, that is something that it would be good to prevent. I am aware that the hon. Member for Easi...

Grahame Morris | 592 c986 (Link to this contribution)

With all due respect to the hon. Gentleman, he mentions the services of a top barrister, but woul...

Robert Neill | 592 cc986-8 (Link to this contribution)

The proposal is initially very attractive, but having looked at the operation of use class orders...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 592 cc988-991 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to the hon. Members for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) and for Leeds North W...

Stephen Williams | 592 cc991-3 (Link to this contribution)

As is customary, I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting the time for the debate an...

Grahame Morris | 592 c993 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the Minister’s clarification, but I am sceptical about the potential of the ord...

Stephen Williams | 592 cc993-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will very shortly come on to the points raised about the process of listing ACVs and any costs ...

Greg Mulholland | 592 c994 (Link to this contribution)

Can we be clear? This is not about giving more protection; it is simply about allowing people the...

Stephen Williams | 592 c994 (Link to this contribution)

I accept what my hon. Friend says about supermarkets, and I assure him I am going to come to that...

Natascha Engel | 592 c994 (Link to this contribution)

That is not the point we are making. All of us have said pubs that are no longer viable are very ...

Stephen Williams | 592 c994 (Link to this contribution)

It is, perhaps, difficult to pick on individual examples without getting into trouble, but one of...

Rebecca Harris | 592 c995 (Link to this contribution)

In a previous life, when I last had a proper job, I was a director of a publishing company so I k...

Stephen Williams | 592 c995 (Link to this contribution)

I do not disagree with my hon. Friend. I am simply saying that the planning system has a column o...

Grahame Morris | 592 c995 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister explain to me in simple terms why protected development rights should apply to ...

Stephen Williams | 592 cc995-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am being invited to depart from my prepared remarks again, but that is the nature of debate. I ...

Stephen Williams | 592 cc996-9 (Link to this contribution)

I fully understand the widespread concern that pubs that are valued by communities could still be...

Charlotte Leslie | 592 c999 (Link to this contribution)

I thank everyone who has taken part in this debate. I will return to the Minister’s comments, but...

Tim Loughton | 592 c999 (Link to this contribution)

What has that got to do with the debate?

Charlotte Leslie | 592 cc999-1000 (Link to this contribution)

It was a terrible abuse of local knowledge, and I apologise to my hon. Friend for taking up his t...

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